My husband and I along with our family took RCIA classes approx 11 years ago. Became catholic and love it. I also recommend reading the book "Rome Sweet Home" it is very helpful and easy read.
Good luck on your journey.

Thanks! I'll check the book out...

As for the question another person asked in the closed thread...something to the effect of "how can you become catholic after leaving mormonism?"

It just feels right to me. Call me nuts, but the catholic church feels right to me in all the way Mormonism didn't. It may have some similarities, but I joined the mormon church for certain reasons. When the house of cards fell, I examined my beliefs. I realized that I'm still Christian, amazingly...
Protestantism didn't make sense anymore to me for the same reasons mormanism claimed. And to define your belief in terms of what your "not" didn't fit for me either. And I examined the catholic church again. It has a screwed up history, and scriptures are far from perfect. But the church eventually faces up to or admit and sometimes rectifies it's mistakes.

The biggest thing for me is how Jesus supposedly makes a point to encourage people to remember his sacrifice with bread and wine. So for me, this is really important. And I guess "priesthood" power must still appeal to me. When the Eucharist is held sacred and pomp and circumstance is performed, I feel that something special is happening. Something that wouldn't seem as special if I did it in my own kitchen.

So the emphasis on the Eucharist in mass as the central point draws me. The focus is on the atonement, and I feel a really personal connection to my God.

It sounds ridiculous, I know. But it feels right and good to me. And I won't ever pressure anyone else, and I respect others beliefs. Especially because I know how ridiculous mine appears.

Any good catholic would say...ah the Holy Spirit id talking to you...
What makes me catholic is the communion. I also enjoy the how the church allows for participation..you listen and see, the incense..the atmosphere, the flowers..they all address our senses.

Certainly there are flaws but there is do much more to the church...

Enjoy your journey...if you can go to a catholic church on thursday..the mass of the Lord's Supper...on Friday..the service is called Tennebrae...at night and the church will go dark since our lord is dead....on saturday is the Easter vigil...again the church will be dark..if it doesn't rain..they will light a bonfire...there will be readings...children may be baptised and then the adults from RCIA class will be confirmed..
Holy week is very special to catholics..

You'll find it different and full of tradition..and then think in every catholic church all the world it is the same service in many languages..

stormy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2011 11:46PM by stormy.

What evidence does anyone on the previous thread have that the molesting priests molested children with any greater frequency then any other organization that had men in it?

I think the real beef with the molesting priest issue is that the Church covered it up, not that pedophile behavior was a required vow when candidates for the priesthood take holy orders. You know, obedience and celibacy (except on Fridays when I molest the altar boys.) Such a freaking stupid default claim.

As far as cannibalism is concerned, it's not human flesh, MJ. The entire concept of religion based on faith is that there is no logical explanation for some things. The faithful accept even without logical explanation and rely on faith to help them accept unexplainable doctrines. Faith and requirement of logical explanation are mutually exclusive ideas. If you must have a logical explanation, you should be an atheist.

Cannibalism is only repugnant because our society has developed based on the idea that it's repugnant. The belief that cannibalism is repugnant is completely arbitrary. I'm a vegan but I can assure you that if I were starving on the top of a snowy mountaintop and the only thing left to sustain me were the bodies of my dead companions, I'd be first in line to sink my teeth into a crisply barbequed thigh.

But to the original poster. If you're interested in observing transubstantiation in communion, you might want to look at Episcopalianism. They believe in transubstantiation in communion as well and they are also extremely liberal being pro-gay rights, pro-women (can be priests) and are actually higher church than the Catholic Church is now.

Plus, if you chose the Episcopal Church, MJ will be ok with your choice as well.

Gotta tell you, everything you've claimed you're interested in about Catholicism is present in Anglican/Episcopalian. Seriously, you should check out that Church.

I was Catholic and am still Catholic in my sensibilities. But now I'm an atheist. If I believed any of it and wanted to go back to the Church I'd go Episcopal. It's the best of the Catholic Church as it was in its golden age (the 1960's and 70's right after Vatican II.) But it's even better and more liberal and accepting than the Catholic Church was during its best days.

CateS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What evidence does anyone on the previous thread
> have that the molesting priests molested children
> with any greater frequency then any other
> organization that had men in it?
>
> I think the real beef with the molesting priest
> issue is that the Church covered it up, not that
> pedophile behavior was a required vow when
> candidates for the priesthood take holy orders.
> You know, obedience and celibacy (except on
> Fridays when I molest the altar boys.) Such a
> freaking stupid default claim.
>
> As far as cannibalism is concerned, it's not human
> flesh, MJ. The entire concept of religion based
> on faith is that there is no logical explanation
> for some things. The faithful accept even without
> logical explanation and rely on faith to help them
> accept unexplainable doctrines. Faith and
> requirement of logical explanation are mutually
> exclusive ideas. If you must have a logical
> explanation, you should be an atheist.
>
> Cannibalism is only repugnant because our society
> has developed based on the idea that it's
> repugnant. The belief that cannibalism is
> repugnant is completely arbitrary. I'm a vegan
> but I can assure you that if I were starving on
> the top of a snowy mountaintop and the only thing
> left to sustain me were the bodies of my dead
> companions, I'd be first in line to sink my teeth
> into a crisply barbequed thigh.
>
> But to the original poster. If you're interested
> in observing transubstantiation in communion, you
> might want to look at Episcopalianism. They
> believe in transubstantiation in communion as well
> and they are also extremely liberal being pro-gay
> rights, pro-women (can be priests) and are
> actually higher church than the Catholic Church is
> now.
>
> Plus, if you chose the Episcopal Church, MJ will
> be ok with your choice as well.

Sorry, but MJ won't be okay with the Episcopal church either. I had that argument with him in the past. He doesn't think they have done enough either.I agree with you on the priest scandal. It is very small percentage involved. The cover up is a bigger deal to me.I suspect plenty of non Catholics are covering up too

bona dea Wrote:

> Sorry, but MJ won't be okay with the Episcopal
> church either. I had that argument with him in the
> past.

That is correct, they still teach that gays can be discriminated against. That is a valid reason to be critical of them. The Episcopal Clergy is allowed to deny a couple marriage based only on the couple being gay, which is, of course, discrimination against gays. This is, plain and simple, condoning and teaching discrimination against gays. Sorry, bona, that you condone the idea that it is OK to discriminate against gays, I do not.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2011 11:30PM by MJ.

MJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bona dea Wrote:
>
> > Sorry, but MJ won't be okay with the Episcopal
> > church either. I had that argument with him in
> the
> > past.
>
> That is correct, they still teach that gays can be
> discriminated against. That is a valid reason to
> be critical of them. The Episcopal Clergy is
> allowed to deny a couple marriage based only on
> the couple being gay, which is, of course,
> discrimination against gays. This is, plain and
> simple, condoning and teaching discrimination
> against gays. Sorry, bona, that you condone the
> idea that it is OK to discriminate against gays, I
> do not.

Neither do I.

Indeed you raise the Episcopal church as an example of a church that is fully accepting of gays, when in fact, they do allow discrimination against gays, why is that? Why are you pimping an organization that teaches that discrimination against gays by clergy is OK as gay friendly? Why do you pimp an origination that explicit states that it is OK for their clergy to discriminate against gays.

The Episcopal church explicitly states that it does allow it clergy to discriminate against gays. Since you continue to insist that the Episcopal church's stand on allowing gays to be discriminated against should be acceptable to gays, then you are condoning the discrimination against gays, plain and simple.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2011 11:45PM by MJ.

MJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Indeed you raise the Episcopal church as an
> example of a church that is fully accepting of
> gays, when in fact, they do allow discrimination
> against gays, why is that? Why are you pimping an
> organization that teaches that discrimination
> against gays by clergy is OK as gay friendly? Why
> do you pimp an origination that explicit states
> that it is OK for their clergy to discriminate
> against gays.
>
> The Episcopal church explicitly states that it
> does allow it clergy to discriminate against gays.
> Since you continue to insist that the Episcopal
> church's stand on allowing gays to be
> discriminated against should be acceptable to
> gays, then you are condoning the discrimination
> against gays, plain and simple.

Whatever. Good night, MJ

Good night bona, sleep well in your ignorant bliss.

CateS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What evidence does anyone on the previous thread
> have that the molesting priests molested children
> with any greater frequency then any other
> organization that had men in it?
>

The issue I have isn't the numbers being molested. As far as I care, a molester is an individual who's actions do not reflect on the institution that individual is a part of.

What DOES reflect on the institution the molesters are a part of is what the institution does when the molestation is reported to the institution. In the case of the Catholic Church, they often hid priests that were accused of molestation. Many priests that were accused of molestation were transfered to other areas where they were not known where they still were given access to children. This hiding of priests in a way that allows molesting priest to continue molesting is what I am critical of the Catholic Church about.

The cover up was really, really bad. Hopefully they aren't covering up any longer.

I am really, really sick of hearing about the scandal, though. I think it's pretty well established that anyone with any interest in any part of the Catholic Church knows full well about the cover-up and ensuing scandal. I don't know why it continues to be brought up, again and again, as if it's something new.

The problem with the continual reference to the scandal is that by default the majority of priests who are good, kind, educated, sensitive, selfless men are damned by association.

I can't tell you how many threads I've seen on this website where posters throw out this stale line when they can't think of something significant to say to criticize the doctrine of the Church. "The Catholic Church...uh...um...CHILD MOLESTERS!"

In the time I was Catholic (25+ years) I NEVER met a priest who wasn't a lovely, kind, giving and wonderful man. I think it's damn unfair to attack all priests because of this old crap. Do you understand how much these men actually give up to be priests? And most of them try like hell to live by their vows.

That said, I still think the Episcopal Church is better and if I were inclined to believe, that's the Church I'd join.

Wouldn't join Unitarian. They are too self-satisfied with themselves. Yoo-hoo, Unitarians. Just because you belong to the Church Henry David Thoreau belonged to doesn't mean you are Henry David Thoreau, or especially brilliant for that matter.

CateS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The cover up was really, really bad. Hopefully
> they aren't covering up any longer.
>
> I am really, really sick of hearing about the
> scandal, though. I think it's pretty well
> established that anyone with any interest in any
> part of the Catholic Church knows full well about
> the cover-up and ensuing scandal. I don't know
> why it continues to be brought up, again and
> again, as if it's something new.
>
> The problem with the continual reference to the
> scandal is that by default the majority of priests
> who are good, kind, educated, sensitive, selfless
> men are damned by association.
>
> I can't tell you how many threads I've seen on
> this website where posters throw out this stale
> line when they can't think of something
> significant to say to criticize the doctrine of
> the Church. "The Catholic
> Church...uh...um...CHILD MOLESTERS!"
>
> In the time I was Catholic (25+ years) I NEVER met
> a priest who wasn't a lovely, kind, giving and
> wonderful man. I think it's damn unfair to attack
> all priests because of this old crap. Do you
> understand how much these men actually give up to
> be priests? And most of them try like hell to
> live by their vows.
>
> That said, I still think the Episcopal Church is
> better and if I were inclined to believe, that's
> the Church I'd join.
>
> Wouldn't join Unitarian. They are too
> self-satisfied with themselves. Yoo-hoo,
> Unitarians. Just because you belong to the Church
> Henry David Thoreau belonged to doesn't mean you
> are Henry David Thoreau, or especially brilliant
> for that matter.
Agreed. The number of priests involved in the abuse scandal is less than 2%. For some reason the media has jumped on the Catholic church and ignored the same thing going on in other institutions. It isn't as if this is an exclusively Catholic problem. It is a human problem.

How they handled that situation should have raised huge trust issues among the faithful and what is a church if it can't be trusted? The leadership of the Catholic Church should be charged as accomplices in my book. The fact that so many turn to those people for moral guidance is frightening.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2011 11:58PM by MJ.

Absolutely F-ing not! I can't stand any organized religion anymore! Keep talking to any of us disenchanted ex-mo's. For me, I have been duped once, and it ain't gonna happen again. I worship raptorjesus! I wish he would hurry up and give me the address that I can send him my f-ing tithing already!

http://thelifeandministryofraptorjesus.blogspot.com/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2011 11:59PM by Freevolved.

Was raised Catholic and converted to morgdom. Both are controlling institutions with histories of nastiness. Borgia pope? Nasty. WWII stance? Nasty. Sex abuse scandal? Nasty. Telling my mother with health issues that a hysterectomy to save her life is sin? Nasty. Run.

I haven't been attending as often as I wish because of some arthritis in my left knee. I know I shouldn't let that stop me, but it does hurt...

No question I love being Catholic, though. I feel much more contentment and closer to God there than I ever did in LDS, Inc.

Yes, I know the Catholic Church has its problems and bad history. However, name one organization or country that doesn't. I can't think of one.

kentuckycrimson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, I know the Catholic Church has its problems
> and bad history. However, name one organization or
> country that doesn't. I can't think of one.

Well, to start, that is a really crappy way to think about organizations. I'm sorry, but I can think of a few organizations that do not have the history of hiding child molesters while continuing to give the molesters access to children. Then when you think that they are doing this while claiming they have the moral authority given to them by God, well I for one would run the other way, not try to dismiss such atrocities as being no worse than everyone else. The fact is, the Catholic Church's record on child molestation couldn't get much worse.

And if you feel closer to a God that allowed this in his church... Well, maybe it isn't the good god you are really feeling close to.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2011 04:18AM by MJ.

>>" And if you feel closer to a God that allowed this in his church... Well, maybe it isn't the good god you are really feeling close to."


Well, existence doesn't have the friendliest track record but I believe anyway



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2011 07:51AM by lostmystic.

Yeah, and a lot of people believed in Rev. Jim Jones and look where it got THEM!

Blind belief in a Church and ignoring the warning signs of a corrupt church, (lies, hiding the truth, hiding criminals, hiding child molesters as the RCC has done) is a very dangerous and STUPID proposition.

But hey, if you want to ignore the corruption, the way they hid criminals, and think that such corruption in the RCC would be tolerated by any loving god, and you decide to go Catholic, I hope you sleep well at night knowing that you are supporting an organization that has protected criminal child molesters. I wouldn't be able to but PRAISE JESUS, if the Church claims they are about God it MUST be true right?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2011 08:12AM by MJ.

You are forgetting free will we all have it and we all can use it. We are taught as catholics that God knows everything we will do before we do it..

You can do it the correct way or not...up to you.

So God knows these things will happen yet he will not intefere..that's how he allows bad things to happen..men and women use their free will everyday.

Organized religion is not for every one and neither is the catholic church...

As always your choice....

stormy

Yeah, that's free will!

No you don't burn in hell...you don't have to be catholic to get into heaven even if they day so....

That's just an excuse on your part..if you don't believe then why would you believe in hell?..

Doesn't compute at all...

stormy

I was raised catholic by very observant catholic parents and was sent to catholic schools.

I've learned of several priests who were pedophiles who were stationed at local parishes while I was a kid. They were routinely shuffled around and protected by the hierarchy.

Pretending that this is not an especially vile problem with this organization is sticking your head in the sand. And pretending that this is largely a problem of media attention is a disgusting insult to children who have been molested by these monsters and those who protected them at the expense of children.

I can remember quite clearly being taught by the nuns that if you committed a sin that was also a crime, you absolutely were required to submit to legal punishment in order to receive absolution. Why then, was it just fine for the bishops to do everything in their power to shield pedophiles from their crimes, and in fact, inflict them on other children? Disgusting organization.

As for the church, while it's not quite as ridiculous as the Mormon church, it's pretty close. It's horribly misogynistic. No birth control being the biggest issue, and women are systemically excluded from the power structure.

excatholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Pretending that this is not an especially vile
> problem with this organization is sticking your
> head in the sand. And pretending that this is
> largely a problem of media attention is a
> disgusting insult to children who have been
> molested by these monsters and those who protected
> them at the expense of children.
>

Said very well.

Glad2B Out

excatholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As for the church, while it's not quite as ridiculous as the Mormon church, it's pretty close. It's horribly misogynistic. No birth control being the biggest issue, and women are systemically excluded from the power structure.

I agree with you that the church is misogynistic at its core. IMO it's not nearly as bad as the Mormon church in this regard, but it's in the same continuum.

It's for this reason (along with the child-abuse scandals) that I feel that the Episcopal church is a better option for people looking for a traditional mass. But others, of course, will feel differently about it.

Mormonism must have hurt you badly..hurt like that makes for bitterness.

But I'm sure your present lack of beliefs is working nether better than any religion can.

Smile mj.

stormy

"Mormonism must have hurt you badly..hurt like that makes for bitterness."

That is just a false claim, I'll let you try to figure it out.

And, no, I am not bitter, I strongly present the TRUTH that religions are not the benign thing people like you make them out to be.

But it is sad that rather than stick with a discussion about religion, you have to resort to proclamations that I am "bitter". Sad, very sad. Surely you can do better than stoop to that.

The Catholic church, along with many other churches, has done a lot of great things for people as well.

Yes, I admit that there are issues that were horrible. One thing I do like, is that these issues eventually came forward and were not ultimatetly denied or defended.

I know that there will always be some problems, but it is my feeling that the good outweighs the bad by far, and the beleif about communion makes the most sense to me personally.

But MJ, I think Stormy's claim about you being bitter may have sprung more from your delivery than from your arguments. I agree with many of your statements, but you do come across as aggressive and abrasive in your posts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2011 09:52AM by lostmystic.

So you seem to be saying that because the RCC has done a lot of good that excuses or makes up for the bad, am I correct? Well then, I will ask:

If a person does a life of good then murders their wife in cold blood, does that lifetime of good mean that person should not be punished for the cold blooded murder? Not in my book, the murderer should go to jail no matter how much "good" they have done.

How about if a person that has done good all their life except they are a child molester and have molested many children? Should their lifetime of good excuse the molestation? Not in my book, the molester should go to jail.

Then what of an accomplice that hides the child molester, should they be excused if they have done good in their life? Not in my book. They should be sent to jail for their crimes.

No, sorry doing good does not make up for criminal activity or for other bad things done. My second two examples apply directly to the RCC and any good the RCC has done does not excuse this criminal activity.

and as far as "Yes, I admit that there are issues that were horrible. One thing I do like, is that these issues eventually came forward and were not ultimately denied or defended." But they WERE denied until the accusations were proven true, sorta makes a mockery of the whole thing if they only admit to their sins when their sins have been proven eh? But ultimately, the RCC has not taken responsibility for their child molestation problem, the RCC is still blaming homosexuals for the problem and not accepting and placing the blame where it rightfully belongs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2011 10:05AM by MJ.

That's what I see the delivery...your responses come across as bitter and mean spirited...

But as always to each own.

stormy

stormy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's what I see the delivery...your responses
> come across as bitter and mean spirited...
>
> But as always to each own.
>
> stormy
+1 I agree with some of MJ's arguments too, but he puts people off with his in your face, abrasive rude manner and his inability to ever let anything drop.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2011 01:33PM by bona dea.

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." -- Carl Segan

And yes, my focus on reality works much better than trying to believe a fantasy that involves talking snakes, forbidden fruit, and that hiding priests that molest children is ever a thing a church should do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2011 10:00AM by MJ.

The old carl sagan quote...

Again..take your pick.

stormy

That is one narcissistic "argument".

"Yes, I admit that there are issues that were horrible. One thing I do like, is that these issues eventually came forward and were not ultimatetly denied or defended."

Were not ultimately denied or defended???? You are in denial if you believe this for a moment. It was only when there was public, incontrovertable evidence that the church stopped hiding this problem, blaming the victims, and shuffling the perpetrators around to attack new children.

Well, I guess I'm a horrible person for wanting to become Catholic, but it just feels right for me.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

No you aren't horrible if you want to be a catholic..free will you know....enjoy

stormy

Thanks Stormy :)

just as long as your aware that the papacy with all its
prooven symbolism, sun-worship pagen times, and where
relegion and state comming together, already signed by
the pope that revelations in the bible say is the sign
of antichrist. Yet the rituals take meaning to good
vonerable church goers just like in mormonism without
the interference like in lds church.
Its a church/tradition that works for millions.
The church is blatent about changing the sabbath
but mormons justify the change being resurrection
as true sabbath now but the bible says none of this.

The catholic church is blatent deception, but lds is
suttle and sneaky as hell. Catholic hell is hard to
buy into once been a mormon and not true anyway.

Just enjoy it as a catholic club.
On xmas one night went to that church.
The youth outside drinking as run out of chairs
packed with people, were calling each other catholic
cunts and proud of it..

Catholicsm is not christianity, but a great spacious
building club, so enjoy it for its decorative display
and bring you to humility without as much interference
as lds. They help more the poor than lds anyway for
a false relegion, an ex blood thirsty history to stay
in power. But the people are just nicer for some reason
than lds and not pretence....

One can step out of catholic church enjoy a wine
and get on with normal life..

Just dont wander after the mark of the catholic beast
when one world order raizes its ugly head and deman it
as the bible says let that church and its people be
accursed with 666...

the mormons think they rescue people from the mark
by feeding the needy who resist the beast that is why
its tithings go for future rather than mainly the now
and helping its members and the world, tho still part
of world take over, still part of sunday pagen tho masonary
rituals, and the highest order of masonary, the crooks
at the top, the jesuits are behind both catholic to protestent
to mormonism. No win situation in the end...

Try seven day aventist. They have the correct saturday sabbath of the original 4th commandment out of the 10. remember the 7th day and keep it holy....It is their mark and authority and
sealing up of the holy ghost, not temples or answering to
any priests. I know many catholics who joined SDA church
and more happy than ever was...

I personally not a sda yet but enjoy attending it and
helping the poor etc on mission rounds.

Larry.