Every few months I post these videos for those who aren't yet familiar with the shock "therapy" that was done on gay men and lesbian women in a basement on the BYU campus to try and get them to stop being gay. This continues to horrify me. I'm so embarrassed to admit that I was attending BYU during the time that this was going on. Of course I didn't know about it, but it's awful for me to think that this was going on in a building in which I had classes and church.

This torture went on for 15-20 years and was performed on teen and adult men and women. Horrific.

We need to keep getting the word out about the atrocities of the mormon church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwUTVQ4mfNE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV-8BmFwGIc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeMKmnMfNUo&feature=related

TG

I don't think you can ever post this often enough.

Is this archived somewhere here?

I, for one, will never understand a mormon who hears this and doesn't have their testimony shaken to the core.

I have to admit I still hung around for a while after I heard about this--but it did shake me up really badly.

I've approached many people about it--the ex-wives of gays for one group.

I love how they bend the rules for themselves--the leaders. You can use porn to try to change a gay to straight. You can do something as disgusting as hooking up someone's genitals and then shocking them when looking at gay porn, but the rest of the members can never look at porn at all. I understand they made the victims purchase their own porn.

The LDS church's entire history with gays is pure evil.

Most members had no idea at the time what BYU's "Evergreen" program entailed. Most of today's members still don't, I suppose. Many of us who DO know, only found out thanks to RfM and the internet!

How many investigators would want to continue learning more about the church if they knew about this?!! Even Non-Mormons who oppose gay marriage would not sanction torture for gays!

I was sharing these exact links with a few of my exmo friends on FB a couple of weeks ago, right before General Conference. They had no clue that this had ever happened.

I agree that everyone needs to watch these all the way through. For TSCC to claim that the body is a "temple" and then they do things like this...it just leaves me speechless.

Thanks for the links; I posted some stuff on two other threads about my lady fare from last year; I trust it hasn't lost its power...

Alas, I'm worried that Mormons will simply resort to their tried-and-true smear tactics and accuse people of lying...

On that one, I think they simply assume, since on some levels they're aware "they're lying," that everyone else must be dishonest as well.

My god, it's unfathomable someone could make stuff like this up; to suggest that describing--and reliving--the humiliation, abuse, and degradation is simply some sort of "attention-seeking game" or "anti-Mormon tactic" is beneath contempt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2010 06:07PM by SL Cabbie.

I cried when I read that. I still get tears in my eyes when I think about it. Your welcome to post it yet again on this thread if you want to.

TG

Like the 3-part video on Evergreen, your "lady fare" post merits periodic reposting as well, SLC.

That not only men, but also women, were subjected to shock treatment at Evergreen, is something every member and exmo should know.

irrefutable link to BYU's Dr Robert Card's patent application for the torture device.

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6050959/fulltext.html

And the fact that Monson was in charge:
http://exposingmormonism.blogspot.com/2008/02/thomas-s-monson-new-president.html

I did some computer work for ol' "Dr. Shock" back in the {late} correction, early 80's at his SLC office. He showed me the device he and his office partner used for conversion therapy. Up close and almost personal! It gave me the shivers!

One thing Dr. Card did for me during the programming project was to administer my first IQ test.

He was, at the time I had met him, a "tour guide" (aka Missionary) on Temple Square.


Edited to correct time period.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2015 01:21PM by moose.

I have some follow up questions. I ask these only because I try to dialog with LDS folk and want to anticipate their objections:

1) Was this program actually sanctioned by the church? Or was this just some graduate student's research project that only he and his advisor knew about? To what extent was the university and the church involved in this?

2) How long did this go on?

3) How many people went through this?

4) How were people recruited into this? Voluntarily, or were they referred by their bishops or other leaders?

Thanks in advance!

So I'll let others fill in the blanks... Two things I see as important...

a) The lady fare in question was in her early 30's at most (I'm hoping to be in contact with them again; it's been several months since we've talked, and I'm honoring her right to privacy although I know her address). However, is it really relevant when it occured (definitely at least into the 90's, and probably later)? Be wary of being manipulated by church members in denial... They tend to have their "talking points" memorized...

b) On stuff like this, the LDS Church has always maintained "plausible deniability" and "distanced" itself from controversial matters (see the history of the "Limited Geography Theory" versus Meldrum's "Great Lakes" version; the history of LDS enmeshment in the Mark Hofmann affair, and the church's stance on the teaching of evolution as examples).

1) Yes, it was sanctioned by the leaders of the mormon church. No, it was not some graduate student's research project. The highest mormon leaders knew about it.

2) It started in the 1970's. Some people claim it ended in the 70's or 80's, but SL Cabbie knows a woman who was electro-tortured at BYU in the early 90's which means it went on for 15-20 years! You'd think by then the "authorities" would have learned that it didn't change anything. What a bunch of sadists!

3) There's no way for us to know how many people went through this because there's no way that BYU and the mormon leaders would open up their books for us to see. Some people have said that hundreds were subjected to this.

4) People were referred there by bishops, stake presidents and, for BYU students, the standards committee. Teen boys as young as 15 were sent there by their bishops. BYU students were told that they'd either have to go through the "aversion therapy" or leave BYU.

You can do a search and find more info about it. Here's a link. Scroll down to Shocking Events at the Y.

http://www.connellodonovan.com/abom.html#shocking

"We love gay people" say the mormon leaders. No they don't.

TG

Yeah, Dr. Card was still doing his thing into the early 90's (see my other post above). His office was on "M" street in SLC. Can't remember the address.



ETA: Please disregard. I went back to my files and found the invoices for that work and it was done in the early 80's.

Memories...they fade.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2015 01:20PM by moose.

The church hierarchy at its finest: the written denial that have any documentation that shock/aversion therapy was ever used at the Y

http://www.connellodonovan.com/images/harker.jpg

the "Values Institute" was set up:
http://exposingmormonism.blogspot.com/2008/02/thomas-s-monson-new-president.html

"The first main goal of the Values Institute was to produce a manuscript "which would set forth significant empirical evidence in support of the Church's position on homosexuality."

"In March of 1979, Marion G. Romney asked Thomas S. Monson to get a concrete budget for the Values Institute. (Which they did, and I might add that all of the money to fund the Values Institute and its projects were received directly from tithing funds paid by LDS members)."

It went on at BYU--does anyone need more proof that the church backed it up? They POLICE even how long people's hair is, what clothes they wear, if they attend church. Of course they sanctioned it and I would be surprised if it doesn't still go on today--I can't prove that, but they claimed it ended years ago and there are people who have come forward (like SL Cabbie's fare) who had it happen in the past 10 years.

Here is a response from FAIR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AUlVonXYW8

In 1978, I was discharged from the army and had a girl waiting to marry me. During my army years, I discovered boys and had one heck of a good time for a couple of years stationed in Europe. I thought I would be able to put all of that behind me when I got married and the Lard would take those feelings away. I met a man in a European city who was from Salt Lake and told him what my plans were. When I returned to Utah after my discharge, he called me and asked me to come to Salt Lake to visit him. He basically organized what we now call an intervention and had several former LDS men who had been married and later came out of the closet share their experience with me. I cancelled the upcoming wedding for fear I would be trapped like these men had been.

Soon after, my bishop called me in one day and said, since you aren't getting married, how about serving a mission. So I went ahead and spilled the beans with him about my activities of the previous few years. He was a very nice man, a lifelong family friend and I don't think he had any idea what was about to happen, but he told me I would need to visit church social services in Salt Lake to first get some counseling. After one visit, I was told I needed to go down to Provo to the Y and they had a special program to help me.

I went through six sessions of the torture they induced. One evening, I ran into some guys at the old Sun Tavern bar in Salt Lake and told them I was going through this treatment. Several guys contacted me and told me I didn't have to do it and that it wasn't going to change my feelings or nature. I was now 22 years old and so I never went back to that basement room at the Y, and I never have attended an LDS church service since, except for a few funerals and baby blessings that I was pressured into.

I will say, I stayed drunk until I was 27 years old. It seemed to be the only way for me to cope with life at the time. Fortunately, I just celebrated 31 years of sobriety and have learned to live a life with honesty with myself and others.

I have shared the experience with a few people, and family members and the response I always get is that I have a vivid imagination and I'm trying to run down the church, so I keep my story to myself most of the time.

Wow, thanks for sharing that, spintobear. What a horrible thing to go through. I'm glad you're doing ok now.

TG

for what you went through. I'm so glad you had some guys who were watching out for you.

Oaks always gave me the creeps. Values Institute? Oxymoron. Has anyone attempted a documentary? Those who killed themselves should be remembered also. That didn't phase the sadists, or slow them down, that men were hanging themselves on campus/HFAC?

I didn't know this was going on while I was at school (literally) under our feet in torture basements. Heartbreaking. They had no problem with some of these talented men entertaining the world in Young Ambassadors, or the BYU Mens' Choir... Back from tour? Time for your electrocution!

The PTSD these people must still live with... Has anyone filed suit? How about the suicide victims' parents? (If they even knew about it.) LDS INC. needs a giant spotlight on it's sadistic human rights violations. Yes, post this regularly. Is it on MormonThink...?

Ex-Sister Sinful Shoulders Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> rights violations. Yes, post this regularly. Is it
> on MormonThink...?


It is now. Draft here: http://mormonthink.com/glossary/electroshock-therapy-at-byu.htm

Great post. A lot of us took abuse at the hands of Mormons. These guys were hit hardest of all. It breaks my heart.

My mom is a very active TBM and I showed her the videos a couple of years ago and she was appalled by it. But my TBM mom said the Prophets at the time was not aware what BYU was doing they did it behind the prophets back. Yeah right lol like the mountain meadow massacre.

I had a very dear friend at BYU who was gay. This was between 1979-1980. Unfortunately he confided in one of the girls at church and she told the Bishop -- soon everyone knew and his privacy was violated.

He was sent to some office building in Salt Lake I believe. From there they told him to purchase his own nude photos of men and women.

They showed him photos of both men and women and when he would have an erotic response to men in photographs, they would superimpose photos of women in their place. These are my memories of over 30 years ago.

I remember that after several sessions of electroshock therapy and the trauma of being outed and shunned at school, he became so depressed that it nearly caused him to have an emotional collapse.

Eventually he was booted out of BYU. It was very sad.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2015 05:03PM by Senoritalamanita.

TSCC has been no friend to gays either inside or outside TSCC.

I would like to point out, the worst of what they have done is to fellow Mormons.

Once they have thought control over a person, they can severely abuse a person. The abused person is lead to believe it is done in love.

Evil, judgemental and inhuman behaviour.

Compatible with Satan "the accuser" and covered by lies and committed in secret, underground at BYU.

Secrets, lies and putrid pools of confusion, misdirection, and blame. All hidden behind "happy" drug induced smiles and the stink of pious superiority.

"We don't know why people say we're a cult." Ha!

Well, dear Mormon, the more you know about the Corporation that stands between you and your heaven, the more you know it is a cult, using you, torturing you, abusing you, controlling you. You're being farmed, cultivated like crops, and you're never going to any kingdom.

Wake up! Skip sacrament and take a walk, commune with God, and your fellow humans, even us gay ones.

You just don't know the context!!

onthefence Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You just don't know the context!!


Wow, did you just trigger a memory!

Early morning seminary, interesting teacher... He told this story to illustrate that just because you feel physical pain through another's action does not mean it was "bad". He and his five year old daughter were driving somewhere. Some of you won't believe it, but there were no seat belts in the car and the little girl was not in a car seat.

They came to a street where the teacher wanted to make a left turn. With no stop sign and no on coming traffic, he barely slowed down

As he entered the turn, the passenger door swung open and he thought his daughter might slide out, so he reached out as fast as he could and 'slapped' her in place.

The speed involved and the mass of hand resulted in a blow that hurt her and knocked the wind out of her.

So while he saved her from whatever the result might have been from continuing straight while he and the car turned left, all she knew was that he has hurt her.

He told us that he hoped that someday she would understand...

See, it's a good story, and it has a point, but it's not hard to understand how church officials could jump on this as a form of justification.

The human brain is very nimble.

Please-Don't ever let this die. I have the highest respect for the people who endured this. There is no Hell deep enough to bury the people that did this and organized this.

Sickening. The church is a hate group.

All you have to do is not conform and you can be hated, too! Although it's confusing because they smile and give you cookies...