I'm not quite sure what she expects from this visit. Does she honestly think our Bishop will be able to answer my "concerns" about "translation" of the BoA, the "inspired" bible, JS's 14 year old wives, racism, sexism, contradictory doctrines, whitewashed history etc? Does she believe he will have any satisfactory answer at all?

I've been reluctant to see him so far for three reasons:

1) I know without a doubt that he does not know more than I do on these matters. He cannot hope to shed any new light on the subject and cause me to change my mind. He is almost certainly ignorant of the truth anyway and will only offer me "pray", "read the scriptures", "follow the spirit" etc

2) My relationship with my wife has been simmering along OK because I haven't demanded any showdown about church and my continued involvement in it. I have already promised her I will continue to attend and support her at church, and that I have no plans to quit and leave her. As soon as I have this conversation with Bishop, everything is out in the open and events get taken out of my control. What if he overreacts and starts to "discipline" me? What next for my wife? "Yeah, I spoke to him and he couldn't help..." Then what?

3) Because I actually like the guy. He was my Young Mens president, is a family friend, and a decent man. He is fairly new in his calling and I don't want to cause him any alarm or distress, or harm his relationship with my parents or the rest of my family. I know he only believes what he believes because he has been indoctrinated and brainwashed just as they tried to do to me. By having a conversation about my "concerns" I would be acting dishonestly. I would rather just be able to tell him the truth.

So anyway, I will put it off for as long as possible, but maybe in the end everything is inevitable.

I would tell her "sure, no problem. As long as you come with me."

Then she can hear everything herself and watch how an inspired bishop can't possibly hope to resolve the real problems with the church.

Go prepared, stay calm, and that might be her last time at church...

Sounds like a plan!

Need to prepare fully to pull it off though.

else like that. She is more likely to think she has to join with the bishop to defend the church against you.

The point you're at now has nothing to do with the bishop and everything to do with you beginning negotiations with your wife. It's all about convincing her to come over to your side, not driving her further into the fold.

There are people here with great advice about the best techniques for keeping your family together. Don't get sidetracked with this bishop thing.

You don't need a 3rd party brokering communication between you and your wife...especially when he considers her (the TBM) right and you (the doubter) wrong before the meeting even begins!

If you are hoping to keep the marriage together if possible, the first thing to do is to sit down with your wife at an appropriate time and invite her to express her concerns. Listen sympathetically, keeping in mind that every TBM freaks out when the spouse has doubts. Hear her out completely without judging or refuting anything she says. What is she ultimately worried about the most? Focus your efforts on hearing her and understanding her concerns and do not even attempt to counter them in this first conversation with DW.

Most importantly, absolutely do NOT meet with the bishop!!! Do not allow him his fake authority over your marriage! Address this with your wife and without any other 3rd party!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2011 09:44PM by WiserWomanNow.

I vote for Kolobian's suggestion. When she watches the interaction, she might realize that you really have some credibility yourself.

It's sickening how those people (TBMs) run to bishops to tattle on others, confess to imagined 'sins', and to ask for direction (not advice) on almost everything they do.

Stupid cult...

Basically, they're all stuck in elementary school until they die.

It's all about waiting for authority figures to tell them what to do. What they can do. What they can't do. What they should drink. What they can't drink.

They seem to think that the authority figure, like a teacher or principal, will know everything and have the answer to every question. Most of us grew out of elementary school and, if we look back from the perspective of adults, we realize that the teachers and administrators were all just ordinary people--and some of them were profoundly ignorant. But as little kids, we tended to think they knew everything.

The Church has to keep its members dumbed down and childish (don't look at any unauthorized books about the church!) in order to perpetuate the illusion that it's authority figures are the people to go to for answers and knowledge.

Who died and made the bishop king? Actually, I feel your pain and understand that she has been trained to look to the bishop as the ultimate authority. However, her request is no different than you asking her to meet with a counselor, members of your local atheist group, Steve Benson, etc.

Tell her to look up everything and get the answers by herself.

Give her a list of topics. Let her do her own research to "prove you wrong". Let her go in with you to the bishop (now knowing what will be discussed). Let her watch him flounder and try to whitewash away.

I have a feeling though, that this whole thing will backfire.

If you choose to continue to go to church and support her, there needs to be a compromise. You can beleive what you want, but still go with her in disbeleif. Agree to disagree. Usually what happens in these situations, is that the topic is off limits, because she is only going to want it on her terms...not reality or logic, or equal open discussion.

Thumbs up to this idea!

You need to put yourself first. You can do that while taking your wife and your relationship with her into consideration, don't worry about "hurting" the bishop. That's his job. Maybe you can get him out of the cult too.

My husband wanted to talk to our bishop
The bishop was a family friend - at least our kids were friends and did sports together so we visited fairly often
He was new to his job
He overreacted and started to discipline me

It was a total disaster. But it might make a difference because you are a man and he won't be as likely to try to bully you. Being new at the job was a disadvantage because he hadn't learned to deal with people who disagreed with him. He was under the impression once he was bishop, his word would be law. He actually made his first minion give a talk on the importance of respecting and obeying the bishop. Idiot.

Anyway, the interview was a disaster because he couldn't handle the info I presented and he got really angry. The only thing that finally shut him up was when I proved I know a lot more about the First Vision than he did. But that didn't keep him from being angry or delivering a couple of talks from the pulpit clearly aimed at me. He also ignored me for over a year - until he realized I was avoiding him then he started pestering me. Ick. He (or his first minion) told everyone I was offended and no one in the ward spoke to me. Several people made obvious attempts to "rescue" my children. The HT gave a truly horrible message about turning against the Lord. The only good result is it made me see what Mormons really are - at least the ones in my ward - and broke all my emotional ties to Mormonism. But I wouldn't recommend taking the same route.

Bottom line: if you feel it's a bad idea, don't go. Go with your gut feeling on this one. I wish I had.

Actually, this advise has some serious merit, based on the similar situations.

I won't do anything, or speak to anybody if I don't want to. If it's a bad idea, then I won't do it!

She is taking you to the bishop because she thinks he can fix you. Like you said, this implies she accepts that the bishop knows more than you and is your authority figure.

I get bothered when a wife or husband values the opinions of a bishop more than those of their spouse.

I'd find out why she thinks you need to go see a bishop instead of thinking the bishop should come see you. It's the bishop, not you, who needs information. I'd find out from your wife if your marriage is a threesome with the church or if you come before the church in her life.

The bishop is going to resort to testimony and feeling. These resonate with females more than males usually. If you must meet with the bishop, insist he deal with facts- shut down the conversation if he defends anything using authority, feelings, or opinion.

If you meet with the bishop, call him by his name, and not a title. Don't get in an environment where he sits behind a desk and you sit in the "visitor" chairs. Do not allow him the tools he needs as an authority figure to your wife.

Remember you can play by the same rules and say you prayed, read scriptures, and have a testimony that the church is not right for you.

As long as you don't "speak ill" of the authorities, they shouldn't discipline you. Of course it's hard to tell the truth about LDS history without it being heard as criticism. I'd find out from your wife if she is ready for the bishop to alienate you completely from the religion.

There is no point revealing your hand to the bishop, IMO. It only makes them think they should be involved. Your wife is going to hear the bishop say you've been reading "anti" material. I'd find out where she stands before you let the bishop drive a wedge into your marriage- no matter how nice or well intentioned the bishop is.

If you agree to allow another person into your marriage, then you will loose control.

I would only agree to this, if she agreed to go to a NON RELIGIOUS counselor.

I agree with the suggestion to see get her to agree to both. You both see the bishop and you both go to a non religiouse marriage cousnselor

Oh, did I mention that his day job is a senior policeman!

His career has probably given him skills to confront, intimidate, and apply subtle interrogation to extract incriminating statements. Unless you are prepared, you might not see yourself being cornered.

Policemen generally do not easily fold, if you know what I mean. They need skills to deal with problem citizens and know how to use them.

Just a thought. (Disclaimer: this does not apply to all police and not all police are aggressive.)

He doesn't seem aggresive, but then I've never seen him at work. I take your points.

Cops are specifically trained in interview and interrogation techniques. They have learned to immediately put you on the defensive. This will never be a free exchange of ideas. It's not how they are trained to manage conflict.

it's NOT ABOUT FACTS!

FORGET FACTS!

It's about feelings, and submitting to 'authorities'.

In short, Mormonism is BUILT ON B.S., folks.

'go in to see the Bishop'?

go in to Be SUBMISSIVE to 'Mormon Authority', no matter who they are, or how they happened to get their 'authority'!

Authority is ONLY a hypothetical construct, it exists ONLY in the minds of those who are compliant to it, especially those in the ChurchCo food-chain who have NO ONE below them in the "patriarchal order".

A 12 year old male sits ABOVE his mother in the Mormon food-chain! HOW BIZARRE! Th



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2011 03:52PM by guynoirprivateeye.

My wife didn't ask me to see our bishop. So your situation is even more complicated than mine.

What has always been tough in my marriage is to get information from my wife about what she has told the bishop or about what he has told her. One would like to go into such a meeting as well informed as possible.

How much have you told your wife? How much has she shared with the bishop? What is she expecting to happen in the meeting between you and the bishop? Has she asked the bishop to schedule a meeting with you or is this more of an open-ended thing where she's asked you to set up an appointment with the bishop in the near future to discuss your doubts? Again--what does your wife know of your doubts?

It's probably good that you are still going to church with her. Do you have a calling and are you active in it? Do you stay for all three hours? Are there kids involved?

Not meaning to be nosy, just looking for some more background to make sense of your situation so as to offer more potentially wise and constructive advice, ideas.

P.S. Your friend's feelings don't really matter when the issue is your marriage. I've heard of people managing a better exit when they can start to work on the spouse while still maintaining the appearance of Mormon normality, maybe with a slow withdrawal from church activity worked in conjunction. I needed time to separate myself from the church and to gain confidence in myself as someone separate from the church and from church authority. Where are you at in that process? If you are in fully recovered mode, then you can manage when to discuss what with your wife based on your NOT being an apostate. You can ask innocent, critical thinking questions and mention concerns here and there under the guise of a normal Mormon. That way she might have a better chance at participating in your withdrawal than being stunned and surprised by it, driven into defensiveness over her faith about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2011 06:10PM by derrida.

In answer to your questions, Derrida:

I haven't told my wife the full truth about anything. I tested the waters and the results were not good. "Divorce" was mentioned, though I have no doubt this would be an absolute last resort, not something she would consider lightly, and probably not at all. I told her I had "some doubts" about the church and that I didn't have a "testimony". I didn't tell her that I absolutely have no doubts that the church is NOT true, and that there is no possibility of me every believing it again.

The meeting with Bishop is an open-ended thing. She hasn't spoken to Bishop herself, and probably wont as she is a very private person. She hasn't set any deadline, but says I need to speak to him as she is not prepared to deal with my "concerns". I have told her on more than one occasion that I am surprised she isn't interested in knowing what I know about the church, and why I struggle with believing it. She would rather the Bishop "fixed" me for her, rather than having to engage with any of it herself. I sometimes wonder whether she is scared of losing her own testimony.

As for my church attendance - We go as a family around 75% of the time. We have two young children, one in nursery the other a baby. Neither of us have callings. I usually go into nursery during Sunday School to help out. I usually spend Priesthood in the corridor or library, though she doesn't always know this. I go into class often enough.

In terms of where I am with my recovery process - I do not have any doubts that the church isn't true, that it was made up by Joseph Smith and his friends, and that there is no "Priesthood Authority". But this is currently only between me and the readers of this website. Nobody else knows my position, and my wife only has a watered down version. I do not recognise the Bishop as an authority in my life, but I do recognise his secular role as the leader of the ward.

No callings, huh? That keeps pressure off you. And only attending about three Sundays a month as a family. What happens on the other Sundays? Does your wife ever not go?

I would suggest letting things simmer down. If she repeats that you need to visit the bishop, then meet with him and tell him one thing that has been bothering you, something you have been wondering about. This could be one thing that you understand as patently false or problematic for the church's claims, but offer it to the bishop as something you want help with. A philosophical problem would be best: e.g., "Why does god let bad things happen to good people?". Let him babble. Do not get too concerned. Let him offer you some suggestions. Tell him thanks, that he's such a great guy, etc. Leave. Leave in peace. Make it a short meeting, not a super big deal, but something you wanted his discernment about. The risk is that you get on his radar. Hopefully he won't get any bright ideas about giving you a calling.

Tell your wife you met with the bishop. Tell her what a load off your mind you've had. She is not ready. Do not talk to her about these things for a while, but do look to expand what your family does together that is not church related. Try to increase the number of Sundays you do not go to church. Slack on church stuff. Push to expand the boundaries, slowly, of you and your wife, and shrink the boundaries of the church. If you do family home evenings, make them totally about Jesus, nothing to do with Mormonism, or make them into family fun and enrichment. If you don't do FHE very often or at all, do not start. Just do family things. You have to strengthen your marriage. Show your wife how much you love her. Make that love unconnected to the church.

Love your wife. Build your marriage. Be a great dad and wonderful husband (not that you aren't already but we can always build bonds. You might read the book Giving The Love That Heals.) You have to slowly draw the poison of Mormonism out of her and your marriage. Your kids are young. That is a plus. Educate yourself more about the church. In four to six months bring a concern to your wife, a question, a problem, not about you, but about the church. You do not want her to tell you to see the bishop again. Stay under the radar. Ideally she will read a book with you, say Todd Compton's In Sacred Loneliness. Go slow. Share her amazement. You are selling her the idea that the church is not all it claims to be.

and can save her marriage--which is why I went to the bishop when I found out my boyfriend was gay.

Yep--we had him right in the middle of us. We ended up married partially to get them OUT OF OUR LIVES--the voyeurism was very damaging to both of us. (We talked to SP, bishops, and an LDS SS therapist).

It was just a few years ago (we talked to the bishop about him being gay about 29 years ago) that my ex and I were discussing what the bishop told each of us . . . he was telling us different things. My ex was FURIOUS about some of the stuff the LDS SS therapist told me and what the bishop told me. I felt emotionally raped by this voyeurism.

I wouldn't do it. The bishop can't "save" you. The bishop doesn't have a higher authority. I mean--I even asked Packer for help and I was just told he was too important to talk to someone as lowly as I was.

I hate how the LDS people give all of this control to someone who may be just a regular office guy during the day. When I left the Church, I realized that I'd given away a lot of my power to people who were actually a part of my personal life.

They weren't my boss. Not a parent. They had no more authority than I was willing to hand over to them.

Now I'm really annoyed with myself for doing that. Never again.

don't see the bishop, if you want to talk to him, he can come and see you, your office, your home or a cafe. Might be interesting, you, your wife and the bishop sitting down at a cafe. Betcha there won't be an opening prayer.

Indirect communication really bugs me. I'd tell your wife that if you have any to say to the bishop, you will say it to him yourself.

I'd also tell her that what passes between you and her is between you and her, she's not at liberty to tell it to other people.

But I wouldn't ask your wife what she has told the bishop. What she says to other people out of your hearing is her business unless she volunteers it.

Likewise, What the bishop says out of your hearing is his business.

This is a win-win situation.

You plant doubt in the bishop due to real truth and your wife is happy you went to talk with him...

Go visit him and then tell your wife that the whole discussion was about her and proprietary.


Ron

You have nothing to gain and everything to lose, my friend. This is a procedural step leading to church discipline against you--

Why let this man gather evidence against you using the interrogation skills he uses at work as a cop? You are not a criminal, you are a MAN who is the actual General Authority when it comes to your marriage.

The detente that you have pulled off is amazing--the first step. You are demonstrating your great love for your wife and family in that you are supporting them in their belief even though you don't agree. You are a man of character to be admired for that.

Taking the church out of your marriage is the second step, isn't it? You should say no to the visit with the bishop or anyone who could undermine your wife's respect for you.

Why would you think that your wife witnessing an authority of the church calling you to repentance in front of her is a good thing?

Tell your wife that you would be perfectly willing to go to a neutral party for counseling--a non-LDS therapist, for example, but that the church has no business inserting itself between you. Certainly she realizes that the two of you must come to some kind of mutual respect that allows differences of opinion regarding whether or not some 18th century figure saw an angel.

In my view, you being called on the carpet strengthens the oppositional nature of your religious differences. A woman who's husband is disfellowshipped or ex'd loses status and is pitied by the other sisters. It is humiliating and horrible that she is blamed but you certainly realize that she is thinking this is all her fault. If only she had prayed more, been a better wife, gone to the temple more often, etc.

Your best course of action is to reinforce your wife's status in your eyes. She is such a wonderful wife that even though you no longer share her devotion (great word - use it often. You are more devoted, I am less devoted. Bishop--it's true I've lost some devotion, but I'm still attending so that's good, isn't it?), you are her number one fan. Tell her many marriages don't survive one spouse losing faith, but some do. Tell her you want very much for yours to survive and for that to happen, the church cannot be part of the marital union. It cannot be a third party in bed and it cannot be a decider in what happens between the two of you going forward.

If you decide to meet with him, go alone and tell him nothing substantive about your faith. This is private. Tell him how much you like and admire him and wish you had more devotion but you are less devoted. He asks you if you believe in Jesus or Joseph Smith, just say you have doubts. You are doing research and find some things disturbing. What things? The church not telling people that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young had plural wives and one of Joseph's wives was fourteen years old. The church signing a declaration that they did not practice polygamy when the records show they did before the declaration and they did afterward. Tell him none of these things have anything to do with your feelings about Jesus. Tell him you are working out the church conflict first and still believe in following the teachings of Jesus. If he asks you where you are getting information, tell him church sources (people here will give you LDS sources where this info is available). Be prepared.

Ask him how he has resolved this problem in his own mind.

Best of luck

Anagrammy

PS. Do not under any circumstances use the phrase "crock of shit" You rock!

Take your wife but the only questions you want him to answer are these:

Will you support my marriage and foster conciliation between my wife and I OR will you foster estrangement by encouraging her to view me as a "less than" husband?

Will you support a positive relationship between me and my children OR will you undermine my role as father by placing yourself between us in some sort of effort to "protect" them from my unbelief?

Will you allow ward members to gossip about my "worthiness" or in anyway damage my family OR will you shut it down?

If he commits to being a positive force and keeps that commitment,then good for you. If he commits but then goes back on his word, your wife will witness his duplicity. If he doesn't commit, then TSCC is not the family values organization they claim to be.

I once told my bishop, "My authority supersedes the Handbook of Instructions when it comes to my family." What could he do but agree with me. It was very satisfying, and it let him know that he had no authority with my family.

Allowing a bishop to get between you and your wife is a recipe for disaster. They think they are counselors because of their calling, and they are poor at it.

I think you should invite him to your office. Tell him to call your secretary to make an appointment with you. Then you are the one sitting behind the desk. That reversal of roles is something he will never agree to - trust me on this one. I have invited my bishop and stake president to do this, and they have refused. Their reason - "Since we will be discussing ecclesiastical matters, it is appropriate for us to meet at the stake center."

My husband was a believer for several years after I admitted that I thought it was all baloney. When I went to see the bishop, at his suggestion and in the interest of saving our marriage, it basically turned into the bishop trying to bully me into admitting that I "knew" the church was true despite my doubts. All it did was solidify my concerns.

My husband was disappointed that the bishop couldn't set me straight, and he never much cared for that bishop in the first place, but he still thought the church was true and that I was wrong.

A few years later, this same bishop told my husband that he would be justified in divorcing me because of my unbelief and that the Lord would provide him with a faithful eternal companion. At that point, my husband realized that he loved me more than the church and that our bishop was completely uninspired if divorce was his answer.

It didn't happen overnight, but that bishop was a big part of getting my husband to really listen to the things that worried me about the church.

husband to divorce you. This boy's club needs to go.

Four and a half years ago, I was your wife. My husband was losing his devotion to the religion and I saw it as the ultimate devastation. I wanted him to go to the bishop also as I truly thought help would be found. We were both BIC 7-generation mormons(his relative was married to Brigham Young), he served a mission, we were sealed for eternity, had three kids and been married for 18 years. But through all of it and unbeknownst to me, my husband had doubts lingering in the back of his mind, most originating from his mission.

He had stopped going to church recently(because I told him not to go if all he was going to do was stir up trouble) and he constantly talked about how something was 'broken' in the gospel plan. I asked him to go to the bishop, he said no. I told him I was going to go to the bishop and get my temple recommend renewed(ours had expired a few months prior and for the first time in our married lives we weren't full tithe payers) I planned on paying the bishop on my own income so that I could get a recommend. My feelings at that time were self-blame. It was my fault for not being a better wife in encouraging my husband to exercise his priesthood more often. It was my fault for letting too many evenings go by without bedtime prayers. It was my fault for allowing us to fall behind on tithing, and it would be my fault if my husband left the church without bringing in the involvement of the bishop.

I tried to go get my recommend but the bishop was not there only the counselors and I knew my concerns should only be discussed with the bishop, so I went home. My husband was shocked and angry that I had actually gone to the bishop. He supposed I'd tattle-tailed on him. It angered me that he was trying to drag me down his same path of unrighteousness and apostasy. So I wrote him a letter, or rather a poem, about my feelings and my intentions. My intentions were to be the best Molly Mormon Woman of Zion I could be and be a positive example for our three children. I would go to church, the temple without him and continue to progress without him and most likely our marriage would end in divorce. I remember truly feeling that I was doing the right thing, that I would be supported by my church friends and leaders for doing the right thing. I think about that now and nearly cry.

My husband read my little poem and was of course angered. We had a heated discussion about what is right and wrong and it ended with him presenting the most effective, most inspiring questions for me to think about. He asked, "Am I really that bad of a guy? I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't beat you or the kids, I do laundry, I do dishes and cook occasionally when you need me to. I've never cheated on you, I've never killed anyone, never robbed a bank or stolen anything. I've changed diapers, fed bottles to our kids in the middle of the night so you could sleep. I've worked two jobs when needed to be able to provide for you and the kids. I've supported you in your different jobs and hobbies and never exercised unrighteous dominion over you. Am I really that bad of a guy?

If you ask the bishop, he'll tell you that you can do better. That you should hold fast to the gospel and the Lord will bless you with a better, more righteous man. But honestly, who are you hoping to find? A man who will lead the family in FHE every monday night? A man who will preside like a dictator over his family and over you telling you what you can and cannot do? Will this righteous man support you like I have and help out around the house? Look at the examples of these types of men that you know of and remember all the times you told me you were so happy I wasn't one of those hopped-up douch-bags ruling over the family. I'm a good man, a good father, a good husband and you don't need a bishop or any other church related person to tell you that I'm not. I don't need our bishop, who didn't even serve a mission, who's wife whines about his absence of help around the house and with the kids, to tell me I'm a sinner and to repent. If you took religion out of everything and compared me to him as just men, just husbands, just fathers, who would win? You need to ask yourself what it is you really want out of your husband? What is really important? In terms of religion, if your testimony is 100% that the church is true, if you feel 100% that dumping an otherwise decent husband in favor of a douch-bag who will take you to the temple weekly and preside over the household with an iron fist is what will make you happy, then I'll be sad, but I'll move on. I don't want you living unhappily and I love you enough to remove myself from your life if it will make you happy. I also love myself enough to make sure I'm happy, and I'm happier not going to church. I'm happy when I'm with you and the kids. I hope you can consider my side of this and come to your own conclusions of what kind of a guy I really am, and what it is you want out of life, and I really hope you'll put all religious notions out of your head when you do this."

This was so powerful to me. For the first time in my life I allowed myself to really think about what I wanted. I spent the next three or four days pondering and thinking about what he said. My conclusion was that I was married to a really good man! I didn't have a 100% testimony and never really had. If I dumped my husband for a 'more righteous' man, I would be stepping down in quality. I made my choice right then to stand by my man, come what may.

We stopped going to church as a family calling it, 'taking a break'. This was hit with sharp criticism the likes of which I would have never foreseen. But we weathered the storm together as a family and our relationships as a unit became stronger than they ever were while in the church. I gained a new testimony over time and after looking into the church history, I can now say with 100% perfect clarity that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is NOT true, never was, never will be.

Thanks for reading my long-winded exit story. There's so much more to it, but in regards to your post, I'd say do not go to the bishop. I'd say, give your wife the opportunity to decide for herself what kind of man you are, I hope you are a good man =), and allow your wife to come to the conclusion on her own. Good luck and hang in there!

"Am I really that bad of a guy? I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't beat you or the kids, I do laundry, I do dishes and cook occasionally when you need me to. I've never cheated on you, I've never killed anyone, never robbed a bank or stolen anything. I've changed diapers, fed bottles to our kids in the middle of the night so you could sleep. I've worked two jobs when needed to be able to provide for you and the kids. I've supported you in your different jobs and hobbies and never exercised unrighteous dominion over you. Am I really that bad of a guy?"

When I tried this - almost word-for-word - I got dumped. We had 5 kids. But she loved the LDS Corp; not anyone or anything else.

Now, she's with a slug who pretends to be a righteous priesthood holder. He makes a good show of it, and that's all she really needed.

I'm sorry it worked out that way for you. It makes me feel incredibly sad and angry she chose the cult instead of you. I hope you still have a good relationship with your kids.

Thanks for writing that.

I won't be rushing into seeing Bishop. I will take my time and show her that I am a decent man and a good husband and father. Hopefully I will have enough time to plant a few seeds of doubt re the church, and that she might take the trouble to investigate it herself.