You read that right.
Early on October 9th my 22 year old nephew was killed in a car accident. The whole family is devastated.
We made plans to load up our 4 kids and make the 12 hr drive from Co to Ok to be there.
Then comes the really messed up part.
Our family left the church in Dec 08. Since then my dh family has been doing everything they can to -well- talk shit about what horrible people we are, I'm an alky b/c I have a drink or 2 now, we've been banned from seeing or talking to their kids, blocked from fb-you get the idea. My dh had had enough at one point and (in a not so nice way) called them on their self-rightous bullshit. Well, that bullshit hit the fan and the real flameing began. Said nephew even went so far as to call & text my dh and threated him with bodily harm (I posted about that back when it happened) and I had to threated to call his PO to get him to finally quit.
Fast forward about 6 months. S. gets killed. We called to offer our condolences, as we are extremely broken up about it aswell as our kids who had been pretty close to theirs up till 6 months ago.
Then we get the calls. My Dh finally tried to call his sister but was redirected to her dh.
My husband asked if we could just please put our differences aside so our family could pay respects to a cousin/nephew. Basically we were told that we should have called and APPOLOGIZED before hand to S. and them and it was to late to make ammends and that if we showed up the p.hood would ESCORT our entire family (kids included) out of the building.
We have heard that they are doing the same thing to other 'appostates' in the family.
I don't think anyone except exmo's can ever really understand the price you pay when you leave that horrible cult. Those still in it will use every opportunity to teach you a lesson, even the death of their child. I think I am done with my extended family.

I read your story with my jaw in my lap. Unbelievable. I'm sorry they are treating you in such a despicable way. Again, proof positive that unconditional love "might" be taught in a class here and there, but rarely, I mean VERY rarely does actually happen in practice. I think I would cut myself off from them immediately.

I'm sorry it has happened. Does it surprise me? No.

I had my own drama in my family when my parents both died. It has been almost 2 years since my mother died. I don't talk to my older sister (only active mormon). Neither do any of my other non-disabled siblings. She created a lot of DRAMA when they died.

Mormonism seems to cultivate narcissism.

Someone they are related to (or that they sort of know) dies and it becomes a tragedy that is all about them.

I was a young almost teenager when my great grandmother died of cancer. My great grandfather also had cancer, and was tired of the treatment (he was so old and frail already) and missed his wife terribly, that he killed himself while my grandmother was out to get one of his many medications.
My great aunt threw the biggest fit that they were to be buried together. We were all TBM, and she could not believe that any of us would actually allow a suicide to be burried alongside a "decent member."
Luckily she was the only one that felt that way, but she laid on the guilt so thick that even at that young age, I could only think, "why didn't you die instead?"
We had to keep her in a corner for the funeral in fear that she would ruin it with one of her rantings.

I am very sorry to hear about your circumstances. Stupifying.

Things like this make me furious at the church for being so anti-family and so pro-self-righteousness. How dare they hijack our families for their agenda? How dare they hijack God to make money?

I'm so sorry your family is treating you like this. How can they not see that their behavior is that of the sinners, the haters, the type of people who killed Jesus when he was on earth? What really is sad is that they are probably really decent people who've been mind-warped by an evil cult. I can't even think of what I'd do in your situation but you have my full symapthy.

Go any way. Let them try to escort you. Video it. Then have it on Youtube.

If you haven't I have. email me, should you need to. matt_exmo@yahoo.co.uk

Think of it like the "closed ranks mentality". The only thing they have left is their belief in the Church. That is all their life revolves around ..For them to be excluding you and your family is a way of trying to show deceased son that they are looking after his gospel interests.

I know it is unfair but think of it this way --- if one of your children was killed would you like an insensitive mormon bishop relative to insist on attending, to dedicate the grave because He had priesthood

I think of the Lord of the Rings Theodin says '' No man should have to bury his son " Let them grieve where they are, grief does funny things to people's psyche..

Just Browsing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know it is unfair but think of it this way ---
> if one of your children was killed would you like
> an insensitive mormon bishop relative to insist on
> attending, to dedicate the grave because He had
> priesthood
>

I agree with the rest of your assertions, but huge difference there. Gullible's family merely want to visit/pay respects. I see nothing in their post that said they would say anything at or during the funeral. Paying respects is something the rest of the normal world would do. Besides, I don't believe that visitors at the funeral would be 100% Mormon, the son would probably have other kinds of non-MO friends. A PO was mentioned in the post. Would the family turn those individuals away as well?

You can pay your respects to the departed without going to the trouble of driving 12 hours and landing in the middle of idiotic family drama.

Who needs it. And the dead person does not care.

If you really want to get their goat, write a $50 check to your local Catholic church around the corner to celebrate a Mass for the dead.

Then send the family one of those nice cards which reads " A mass has been celebrated in behalf of..."

Glo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can pay your respects to the departed without
> going to the trouble of driving 12 hours and
> landing in the middle of idiotic family drama.
>
> Who needs it. And the dead person does not care.
>
> If you really want to get their goat, write a $50
> check to your local Catholic church around the
> corner to celebrate a Mass for the dead.
>
> Then send the family one of those nice cards
> which reads " A mass has been celebrated in behalf
> of..."

Neat idea. Or maybe have it done at the Catholic Cathedral in Salt Lake City!

Great idea Glo. Sometimes there are ways to get them back but without mean words.

and let them stew about that.

How judgmental the "righteous" are! You would think that in the face of sudden death, they would feel some humility about the frailty of life.

In fact, anything like that would be good. If you start feeling sorry for them, take all the money you would have spent on the trip and give it to your nephew's favorite cause. When my cousin died, they had a short ceremony at sea and scattered his ashes. My uncle, dad's brother, said it wasn't worth flying from CA to the east coast for my dad, although he was welcome. Dad instead made $1000.00 contribution to the ocean rescue group my cousin founded, so they could buy more of the equipment the desperately needed. Dad figured he'd spend at least that on last minute airline tickets for him and mom. You could do something similar, feel good that you took the higher road and are free from the bad influence of Mormonism - able to actually be a good person.

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this idiocy in addition to the death of a loved one. I wish the best for you and your family and hope you can get this madness sorted out.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2010 09:49PM by gulliblestravels.

I like the idea of making a donation to something wonderful your deceased nephew may have loved in his name, or some tremendous adventurous thing like donating money to a space exploration or telescope, or a school in Africa, or a museum of his favorite band, hobby- whatever. For your own good. for your own integrity.
nothing engaging with or involved with or communicated with any family about it- just for your integrity and making peace with dignity.


I am confused reading your first paragraph however.

Who is S, the said nephew that is the one who died? or the brother of dh? or?

Was your husband in an argument where one of the people he was arguing with threatened him bodily harm? and now either a)their son is dead? or b)the person who threatened him bodily harm that he was arguing with died tragically?

if you were to drive hours to some state where would you want to stay? at your mom's or relatives'? these folks asked to be left alone from you at this time so you'd have to not go to family homes when they were there- tricky with mother in law. Grieving son or daughter with a dead son- on the week of their son's funeral trumps visiting sibling & grandkids no doubt. Maybe you have other friends you could stay with. but you cannot help make the funeral meal or make arrangments or plan flowers or make the slide show or contribute digital photographs for a CD or mix music for an event- to contribute near people who are so upset they do not want to engage in further contact with you- they have to welcome you in or put up with you, and it appears they are just unable to feel the love or offer further closeness this horrible week. its like their life is not 'water under the bridge' right now- that conversation or situation is real & they may eventually forgive it- but they do not have to like it or accept it or be close to it. some things look in a bad light and it stinks but that's the way it is. it can't be undone. some things are like that- people can be hurt near life & death & never trust the person that hurt them or someone close to them for years or the rest of their life.

someone else in the family may insist on unity, and try to force the persons asserting their need to limits- to put up with the entire family. movie stars have private funerals some time. some people need to set limits to survive. people intheir own family may disagree bitterly with that other person's perceived needs- but the right to assert that need- to grieve, to be protected, to have their feelings and ideas about what happened- just- be.

that is what you need right now- too- the right to just - be- and it may not be in this extended family because words just ** closeness and cannot be unsaid.

Either way, these people are real real upset right now- because their son is gone. They are also possibly still upset or remembering their last argument with your dh. This is not a good time, when they are so upset, to be close to them or to reach out to them in order to comfort them.
Why would you want to go be near people who are either hurt and angry that their son is gone, and also hurt and angry from their last conversation fighting with you?

I may be misunderstanding this entirely, if the young adult that died, was in a huge argument with one of you (his aunt or uncle) that was so big an argument that he was so upset and angry he threatened to hurt one of you guys physically- while he was arguing- and now he is dead- ? I don't see how him being dead makes it so you have a close relationship and he would have invited you to his funeral, if I understand what you typed, if he threatened to hurt one of you in an argument the last time you were talking/arguing.

I know when I am dead I will have died, but in my mind now it sort of annoys me about anyone that opposed me terribly or didn't support me in my ways/life to make a point of going to my service and gloating over my grave. I know I wouldn't want someone who had continually been negative towards me or not close or supportive to me at all- as I was- before and right when I died- to then show up once I was dead.

I suppose life is for the living, & the living can have & resolve their grief. However the first tier relatives would be this dead young adults' mom, dad, girl friend/ or lover, fiance whatever, any siblings, closest friends & its their call what they want to encounter or put up with. some people just get cremated then no one has to put up with anything just scatter ashes privately.

Some people want to grieve in close community, some can't even leave the house or loose their voice- they do not want to talk. some people do not even use grave markers. some people wants lots of services and ceremony. truely that is the choice of the most intimate immediate family not extended family about what will be the experience of the parents or girlfriend or lover when they grieve. SORRY.

It is possible to bother someone enough that they just don't want you anymore, and it doesn't matter if you're right they have the choice how much they want you in their life. so even if you were there you couldn't go to their house or the personal meal they are having after the event. as they have asserted their opinion or stated what they perceive to be their needs.

When I received an unconsciounable email- which upon sharing with coworkers- had one say aloud, this is NOT how you treat family made it apparent my husband had been raised by wolves. raised among wolves. straight out. It was also during alife or deathmoment- a kid's aggressive tumor dissection. My spouse vacationed without me to see them by himself for several years after that- & I am always ready to leave should it start up again. & one of them I can barely spend time in their presence nor would I want to incidentally. Regardless of offers to visit their home passing through (town) I'd rather eat at Mcdonalds or sleep in a rest area in the seat of my truck & the thought of having them in my house - I'd loose my vocal cords shouting if someone forced an argument on me over them. That said I was positive and polite at and after both kids' weddings, to which they'd been invited & attended. & no doubt were their a funeral they would also attend. But be in my house? I will never forget. forgiven not forgotten I will never trust them again they have shown they are no true friend sister in law wolf acting like she was raised by wolves or something. visit me in my house? over my dead body.

Probably.

S. is our nephew, my husbands sisters eldest son. The timeline goes like this:

Last summer- Younger sil & her dh/kids came for a visit. Turns out it was a spy mission to dig dirt on 'the apostates'.

Last fall- oldest sister (S.'s mom) came for a 'visit' to confront us about our exit from the church and our 'behavior'. Big sis's dh sat in our living room yelled at me for saying the BOM was fiction.

Feb 2010- my DH was on 21yr old S.'s fb page and dropped the F-bomb. S.'s dad got on there and tried to lecture dh about cussing on S.'s page b/c their little kids had accounts on there.
Dh told S.'s dad where he could stick it and queried why a /preisthood holding mormon would tell his underage (under 13) kids to lie about their ages to get fb accounts.
The shit then hit the fan.
We didn't hear another word about it from BIL but his son, S. call/texted my dh and was threatening him, told him he would punch him in the mouth, etc.
S. was on probation for choking out his gf a few months before, so I threated to notify his P(robation) O if he didn't quit. (he then told youngest sil that if I did he'd be on the 1st plane up there.)
At that time I heard about all that little sis had had to say about her trip to our house the summer before and decided to confront her about her spy mission.
Little sil went to big sil and big sil lost her shit and started with the texting and began telling people that we get our little kids drunk/high and that my dh put a virus on their comps to get him in trouble at work (he hacks comps for a living).
At that point he told them they were no longer his sisters and basically cut them off.

October 2010- S. (big sil eldest son and threat maker) is killed. A couple months before he told another sil (dh has 3 sisters) that he felt bad about going off on my dh, but hadn't gotten up the courage to tell him.
Last night Josh called big sis, who wouldn't talk to him, so spoke with her dh. Basically they blamed the whole incident in Feb on dh & I. my dh pretty muched begged them to put their differences aside so that, at the very least, our kids could say goodbye to their cousin and see their other cousins. Bil basically said we should have thought of that before and been more respectful and that they don't want to make amends, it was all our fault, S. wouldn't want us there anyway, etc...
My dh even appealed to their religeon asking them to be christlike for just one day. Nothing.
We aren't the only ones they are doing this to either. Sadly, they are absolutely the kind of people that get a power trip off fucking with others and have no qualms about using something like this to 'punish' people they didn't get along with.
S. was becoming the kind of man he was and trying to get his shit together because of the kind of controlling and narcissistic people his parents are, and I'm afraid his death is only going to give more fuel to their fire as too many people will give them a free pass on they way they treat others because they are 'grieving'.
I would not wish the death of a child on anyone, and would never say this outside an anonamous board-but karma is a bitch.

If I'm understanding correctly that he was on parole, maybe they just projected all of their stuff about that onto you.

I know it's upsetting. This probably won't help you feel any better, but I have cousins I haven't seen much of and cousins I haven't seen at all since the 1970s, because of various stupid things our parents fought about--not church stuff, but I think the church had something to do with it.

Even my Mormon-hating atheist grandpa with the pink car was raised Mormon, and both sides of my family seem to lack that emotional "glue" that holds families together. I don't think many Mormons know how to bond around anything but the religion.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2010 09:18PM by munchybotaz.

That is shocking!!! What organization treats family like this???? NONE. They should all be ashamed. It sounds like a gang was being prepared to come after you. Sad that they can not live the 11th Article of Faith. (it's that, right- I am a nevermo) I am so sorry you have such rude people in your family and I send my condolences to you on the death of your nephew.

Sometimes the best way to show respect is to stay home. It's too bad there is this bad blood between your family and your extended family, but it doesn't sound to me like now is the time to try to mend fences. They're hurting and obviously haven't forgotten their pain/hard feelings over your resignation. It sounds like your family is still sore, too.

I'll tell you this. If my husband precedes me in death and his TBM estranged children (who disowned him in a very hurtful way several years ago) suddenly decided they wanted to show up for his funeral, I'd probably have them escorted out, too. I have only met my husband's daughters once and they broke his heart. A funeral would not be the right time for them to try to make things right.

I'm not saying I agree with your extended family's reasons for their treatment of you. In fact, they sound like people I wouldn't want to spend any time with voluntarily. I'm just asking you to try to see it from their perspective. In the long run, you may be glad you stayed home rather than face a lot of hostility from extended family. If you must make a gesture, I like the other posters' ideas about donations made in your nephew's memory for things that he cared about.

It happens in families a lot. We saw that recently with Farrah Facwett's son.

Deaths in a family bring out the most bizarre behaviors. People steal items, lie, hide things, refuse to allow certain people to attend the funeral or burial, and on and on leaving people angry and upset for the rest of their lives.

Fortunately, in my case, those that have passed on in my lifetime have been quite reasonable, except for one particular case. It's unbelievable what people get furiously angry about and hold a grudge for the rest of their lives. One time, it was about flowers!

I'm not surprised that LDS folks will do something similar.
People get very territorial about funerals at times.
It's a power play thing that is one of the worse things human beings do to others.

Hold a personal, at home ceremony where you share memories about S before he went off the deep end. Maybe try some of the closing ceremonies like writing a letter, or sending off a balloon, or something. I know they may sound childish, but it is a way to psychologically find closure.

Then I would donate a small portion to a worthy cause that S felt strongly about or a cause related to his accident. (Maybe the Highway Patrol or associations that support safe driving.)

I'd also suggest writing a letter to his family, to be mailed at a much later date, explaining how much it hurt to not be allowed to say goodbye to S. Explain that family should be able to lean on other family members during difficult times and that despite familial problems, you feel that your family had the right to mourn and say goodbye. I'd wait at least 6 months before sending this.

Just my 2 cents.

Agree the best way to show respect in this case is to stay home, and hold your own memorial however small to put the matter to rest and effect closure on the death.

It is not only LDS families that go through this-when my bro in law died, he wrote his parents about a month prior and told them that they and two of his three siblings were not welcome at his funeral (he knew he was dying). They had been really sh*tty to him and especially my sister over the years (they are very righteous United Church of Canada members) They made noises abot showing anyways, and my sister told the funeral director to have them removed for trespassing in the Funeral Home if they did. Bro K who was welcome to show did attend on behalf of his parents and two sisters, and they held a memorial in their home town to celebrate M's passing. My sister has had no contact with them since, and her kids occasionally get letters from their grandparents beggin them to be closer. Too late. Nasty, nasty people.
When my eldest Aunt died in early 07, one of her sisters was not welcome at either the funeral home or the Church service either, though her husband, my Uncle, would have been. She too wisely chose to stay away because I personally would have told her to take a hike ( I stopped talking to her in 1988) Another nasty miserable old woman, fact she was that way her entire life. She had not seen my Aunt in years, despite living only two blocks away.

I think that "calling out the priesthood to have you removed" is a hollow, veiled threat that they are piously using. Do you think that the bishop is in concert with them? The Counselors? The HPGL or EQP? I doubt it.

If you want to go, or feel compelled to go, I'd call their bishop. Brief him. Tell him your story. Tell him the threats. Tell him how "unchristian" your family is behaving. Not all bishops are jerks.... especially when their Christianity and/or public perception is challenged. Maybe... he'll actually do his job as "judge in Israel" and come to a compromise/solution.

But hey... like I said... that's only if you still want to go. I'm not discounting what others above me have said.

It sounds like this is about their personal problems with you and that it is not being instigated by the church. Even though the problem may be about church issues, it is a family problem when you get right down to it and I doubt if the bishop and other church officials are involved.. It is their son and they do not want you there. That is the bottom line. It may be unfair but that is they way they feel. I'd respect them and have a private memorial. If the situation were reversed, would you want them to come? I'd guess not. You would have enough to deal with without the added pressure of dealing with estranged relatives. They may be acting like jerks, but they are the ones who lost a son.Respect their wishes.

Before all this, S and us were close. He idolized his uncle (my dh) and had been talking with him about joining the military since my dh & I had been marines.
Before we left the church we were 'in' with them & their family. Our kids were friends and called/im'd each other often.
Nothing that was said by them, though very hurtful would have caused us to something like this to them, much less their kids.
This has everything to do with church and us not towing the family line. It is meant to punish and they know that we know it.

Remove the cult from the equation and the conflict never happens.

Timothy



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2010 03:49PM by Timothy.

Showing up there will be like a bomb going off. The entire family will be upset. Besides their grief they are pissed off at you folks for being apostates.

They need time to grieve and get used to having apostates in the family in their own time. If you show up there things could happen that would affect the entire extended family if things got ugly. And that sure sounds possible.

Send them some flowers and let it go at that. I wouldn't even try to approach them for at least 6 months. Unfortunately the holidays are approaching.

I also think that the best way to pay your respects is to stay home and have a private memorial. I do like the idea of donating to an organization in memory of your nephew. Unfortunately, funerals sometimes bring out the worst in people, such as threatening to have people escorted out of the service, stealing objects, or treating others like s***. In fact, it was my grandpa's funeral that was the last straw for me when it came to one of my uncles, and there's less stress in my life now that I decided to cut him out of my life.

Someone on here a couple of years ago (2007, I think) had a grandmother, as I recall, who stipulated in her will that her funeral be attended only by those with temple recommends. Can you imagine having such an as*hat for a grandmother or--even worse--a bishop that was enough of an as*hat to enforce that kind of request?

Can't have apostates around being decent, caring, normal people. It makes it hard to demonize them that way.

Seems like there's no winning in this situation. They'll attack you (at least verbally) if you go, and you know they'll make up crap about you if you don't go. "gulliblestravels and family are so fallen, corrupt and hardhearted that they didn't have the decency to come to the funeral."