So things are still not good with my DH and his TBM daughter. These past few months they have not talked. My husband has called, texted and has tried to Skype her at school (BYUH) this last semester, but still no real communication. His birthday was this past week and she texted him "happy birthday and sorry I didn't send a card but I'm too busy with finals." We know she spends lots of her time and money on the missionary boys and her TBM mother - whatever, so be it.

We are assuming that she is coming back home for Christmas break (her mother and step-father just moved to another state). She recently blocked my husband from FB which was one way that he could kind of keep track of her schedule, etc. Last Christmas was a lot of frustration with trying to schedule time to see her and give her a Christmas gift and wanting her to see her grandmother, etc. This year, we have decided to not attempt to see her as it was a huge struggle last year (she clearly did not want to visit us) and she was so disrespectful and strange during the whole visit - her mother was texting her asking "are you okay?" . . . WTF!

It just doesn't feel right either way - by trying to contact her and get together with her for Christmas (or try and steal a moment with her) or not contacting her, not seeing her and spending some time with her with us and her grandmother. I'm just trying to understand why this has to be so damn difficult with a young adult who is being raised in such a "great and wonderful" religion and who is learning such righteous attributes - it just doesn't make sense?!

"It just doesn't feel right either way - by trying to contact her and get together with her for Christmas (or try and steal a moment with her) or not contacting her, not seeing her and spending some time with her with us and her grandmother. I'm just trying to understand why this has to be so damn difficult with a young adult who is being raised in such a "great and wonderful" religion and who is learning such righteous attributes - it just doesn't make sense?!"

You're right it doesn't make sense. Though holidays are for the family...the holidays are YOURs also...(and your husband's).

You have tried to communicate with her and invite her. She has blown you off. I wouldn't make another attempt to invite or communicate with her. If she calls on the 23rd or 24th, to "get together" with you, I'd tell her since she wouldn't return your husband's calls, you've made other plans. Being rude and disrespecful can go both ways...though you're not being disrespectful imo.

No, it makes no sense. She obviously has some issues being around you, and letting you into her life.

She is playing games with you.

I would just come out and ask her whats going on.

I'm not the most tactful person, but I pretty much know how everyone in my family feels about being in the same room with me. I can't stand it when there are elephants in the room. The s%#$t pile gets too deep and smelly. Someone has to shovel it out eventually.

I don't disagree with you but.....why should you (or step mom from the original post) shovel out the sh1t from the elephant in the room??

The holidays are for everyone and yes, that bitch of a daughter/step daughter needs to be addressed but that won't happen during the holidays.

I gather people like that daughter, like having the less righteous nonmos/exmos grovel at her feet for just "some" of her righteous and spirtual time.

I say fvck that and go find people, related or not, you LIKE spending time with during the holidays...


my 2 cents.....

Disengaged families are very common.
Send a gift card.
Or money: it's always the right size and right color!

I wouldn't send a gift...maybe just a card to let her know I was thinking about her, but if that's what she is ALWAYS like towards her father...just because he's not mormon, then she's not worth the stamp imo

I think that all you can do is model (demonstrate) loving, familial behavior, issue an invitation, and let go of the results. You can't control other people's behavior, but you can control your own.

I would say something like, "DD, we would love to see you over the holidays. Let us know if and when you can come and we will arrange for plane tickets. If not, we will send your gifts to your mom's house. We hope that you have a great Christmas, and we love you very much."

Kids can grow up and change. How she behaves today may not be how she behaves tomorrow. I would leave the door open.

I like this approach. It leaves her room to grow up a bit. Heaven knows she needs it!

Me too, keep the door open, but don't beg the girl to come through it.

I agree. Sooner or later, she is going to have to question why things are so hard between you guys, and she is going to mature enough to at least accept partial responsibility. My parents (when they were TBM) cut off communication with my TBC grandparents for over a decade until the wall finally cracked. In the end both sides agreed they would not discuss religion.

summer Wrote:
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> I agree with what summer said. I prefer this method. Give something, take the higher road, and wait... kids do grow up!

Can't send gifts to her Mom's house. Her TBM mother and step-father recently moved and she has made it very apparent that she doesn't want us to know where they live. The daughter will not dare speak about where they are living - it really is WEIRD!! Like we would really give a crap what her mother is doing and where she's living. Thank God we don't have to deal with her craziness anymore! We will probably send a card and a gift of some sort to her at her address at BYUH. When she moves back to the mainland after she's done with school in April, we'll be lucky if we get a change of address.

Yep... my husband's ex wife just pulled this, too. We found out a few months ago that they moved from AZ to NH. No one bothered to tell my husband where his daughters moved to, even though one of them was a minor until very recently.

Step life sucks.

You can find almost anyone using the address lookup sites on the internet. I've used Yahoo, Zabasearch, and others. In a pinch, you have to pay a small fee.

Long story . . . he was ordered through his divorce decree to pay for his daughter's secondary education. The State of Oregon and a few other states require this of divorced parents - seems crazy to me as we currently do not live in a state that requires this. Why should a divorced parent (generally the father) be required to send his kid through college when, if the parents are not divorced, the parents are not required by law to send them through school - seems crazy?

At the time he and his ex were divorced he had no problem with one day helping send his daughter through college - as any loving father wouldn't - however, he had no idea that things would turn out the way they have with the ex-wife and daughter being so caught up in the Mormon faith and then her going to BYUH - now he has no say in this. It seems like he's paying for the education and alienation of his daughter through the negative behavior and beliefs of the ex-wife and in the coinciding of the beliefs of the church - this is REALLY fvckin crazy!!

You need to talk to a lawyer and get a few changes made.

We have hired attorneys - one in each state - WA, OR and ID . . . no luck! It's a fvcked system!!

I feel your pain. My husband's TBM daughters are so alienated they haven't spoken to him since 2004. He was supposed to pay child support to them until they were 22 years old. Thankfully, his ex wife never filed with CSEA, so when they turned 18, he just stopped paying. He was supposed to pay them directly anyway and there were conditions to their being entitled to the money. Since they don't speak to him, he has no way of knowing if the conditions are being met. I don't think the ex wants them to have the money anyway, because money gives them a means of getting away from her.

Unfortunately, in a situation like this, I think you have to wait for them to figure it out and grow up. Enjoy your life. As hurtful as it is, you may be better off not having to deal with her.

You seem to have made it clear to your husband that you are more than willing to make an effort to be inclusive. You've put yourself out there and made the attempt. What more can you do? You should not feel guilty for being shunned, that's for sure.

Maybe just let it ride this year. If she make the attempt, accommodate as you can but don't expect anything. That way you won't be disappointed.

Wow, if this was me-- I would not contact her-let her contact you next, it's a two way street. She seems very immature and spoiled. That is so disrespectful to her father. Hopefully as time goes by she will come around and I would expect some kind of an apology before I would even let her back in to your guy's lives. This sounds very painful- especially for your husband. That's just what I would do. You two are people and deserve mutual respect.

It makes perfect sense. She does not want anything to do with her father or with you.

Let her sulk and move on with your lives.
She is immature, the more you beg and plead for her love the more she will reject you.

Actually, this girl spells trouble. Be grateful she does not come around and mess up your marriage like so many step children do.
Consider her behavior a blessing in disguise.

I've often thought this too . . . we'll get into our rythmn with her it just may take a few years.

Thanks for all the input . . . it does help!

As I have said before, there are far too many Mormons in the Mormon Church, and not nearly enough Christians.

...We're always here for you if you ever change your mind.

Much love, Dad."

I don't know how much clearer she needs to make it that she wants nothing to do with you two. All you can do is wait for her to have a change of heart. That probably won't happen as long as she' at the church indoctrination camp.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2011 07:02PM by Stray Mutt.

Sorry, I agree she is very disrespectful, but I still vote for the 'model good manners and behaviours and hope one day she will follow suit'.

I do believe kids can change. I know I have as I got older, however, I can honestly say I was never disrespectful to my parents (divorced). But I did feel resentment towards them for divorcing and the way it affected my life (children do think the world centers around them).

Eventually that went away. You cannot force her to come, you cannot force good manners or for her to thoughtfully remember her father on birthdays. But you can always extend the invitation and make it clear she is welcome...Make sure though, when you extend any invitation to also give a deadline for a response.

That way you are not putting your life on hold and if/when she calls at the last minute to fit you in, you can also model good manners and let her know that you had no idea she was coming and made alternate plans. That will teach her to respond and show more respect towards your time and life.

But do not close the door, I believe it would be painful for you DH to have to make that choice.

Hope things work out.

Welcome to RFM!

>>I'm just trying to understand why this has to be so damn difficult with a young adult who is being raised in such a "great and wonderful" religion and who is learning such righteous attributes - it just doesn't make sense?!<<<

Does it make sense? No, not the real world, but in the Mormon church this seems to be the norm. Mormons put on a smiling facade, and proudly advertise "I am a Mormon" and send out missionaries, and pretend to be a family-oriented religion--but in reality, it is a money-seeking self-serving cult. I'm sorry to tell you that your DH's family is yet another of many families that the Mormon cult is holding in hostage.

Let me briefly explain. The LDS church's president, Thomas Monson, in the televised General Conference, urged parents of adult children who left the church to "not give them the same consideration as your faithful children." Shunning is the norm, among Mormons. Several Mormon neighbors have actually dis-owned their own children for leaving the church, or for marrying a non-Mormon, for refusing to go on a mission, for being gay, for marrying someone of another race--for all those reasons! The Mormon church has taught your DH's daughter that your DH is "lazy, offended, and a transgressor" because he left the Mormon faith. I know this, because this is in the Mormon speeches and manuals. When members have a bishop's interview, the bishop asks them, among other things, if they "associate with any apostates or apostate groups." The answer is supposed to be "no," if the member is to be judged as worthy by the bishop.

Having been brainwashed by the cult myself, I can truthfully tell you that your DH's former wife and his daughter are actually frightened to have her stay at your house. Hence, the "Are you all right?" texts. You might weaken her testimony by showing her that you are loving, happy people. You might weaken her testimony by telling her something that is TRUE. You might corrupt her testimony by taking her to a different church on Christmas! You home "does not have the priesthood in it." Strict Mormons are horrified to be near alcohol, coffee, and tobacco--yet their cabinets are full of painkillers, valium, and other meds.

The Mormon church is notorious for breaking up families. It will get worse, when your DH and you will not be able to attend his daughter's temple wedding. I feel sorry for Grandma in all of this. Your DH could demand that his daughter send something to her grandmother, and give her a phone call, poor Dear.

So--your DH's daughter is a typical religious BYU gal. She will be encouraged to separate herself from you. Don't blame her too terribly much for following orders. After all, your DH is paying for her to learn those things. I would do what Summer and the others said, who are encouraging you to be loving. The Mormon cult is something that we must all RISE ABOVE. You are better human beings.

You If all this upsets you, you and DH might feel better if you establish boundaries with Mormons. For example, if I were your DH, I would insist that DD have good manners toward you and your marriage. If she is nasty, call her on it, put a stop to it, and tell her that this is not the way you treat each other in your home. I would rather she not visit at all, if she has a bad attitude. Next year, she might be different.

I would not send her any money. As a matter of principle, I would not want my money spent on a cult or on its recruitment program. Missionaries are good at emotionally manipulating young girls out of their money. They are trained at the MTC, in slick, professional sales techniques. Send her grocery cards, restaurant cards, cards for a woman's clothing store. DH should send her tuition directly to BYU, book money directly to BYU Bookstore, rent directly to the dorm or landlord, etc.

Having a little more control over your step daughter will make you and your DH feel better, and will make daughter appreciate and respect you more. Also, her mother needs to stop undermining you.

"Once you invite her, let go of the outcome," as one poster wrote. Christmas is about Love, not family tugs-of-war.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2011 07:41PM by forestpal.

Wow - excellent information! I thank you for your insight - you have no idea what a relief it is to know that there are people out there who TRULY understand what we are facing with his daughter. This daughter is his only child and all of this weighs on his heart pretty heavily. I will definitely share this insight with him - thank you!

My husband was never Mormon and it was agreed between he and his ex-wife when they were first married that they would not raise their children in either faith - Mormon or Catholic. Unfortunately, the ex-wife couldn't keep her commitment (imagine that :-)!! I was raised Lutheran - adopted and raised by a Lutheran minister and family. I would imagine the ex-wife has said some things to DD about that scenario as well - I know the Mormon Church has strong beliefs about protestant ministers, etc.

I take more of a metaphysical approach to God and I am studying spiritual psychology (counseling) - Jungian theory. I like what you've said about taking the higher road and both my husband and I agree with taking this approach with her. Thank you again for your great words of wisdom . . . :-)

This is not just a "Mormon" thing, though it seems more common among Mormon and non-Mormon family members.

It is hard not to grieve and be hurt when you are treated as if they do not care for you at all.

The fact is that you have no control over how she thinks or treats another person.

Leave the door open, but do not put your lives on "hold" waiting for that knock.

If you think the emotional pain will ever go completely away--it won't, but it is possible to live several days in a row without thinking about it. When the sorrowful thoughts do pop into your head, tell yourself, "I love him/her/them, and I am hoping that they are happy."

That is about all you can do.

A Christmas text message? That'll do nicely!

My son and I have had a rough year--let alone he and his dad. Will he show up for Christmas. I don't know. I won't contact him--it is up to him. He showed up on his birthday to get his gifts.

AND you better be damn well sure my son will be getting gifts--not because he is a spoiled brat, but because he is MY SON. I chose to have him. He didn't choose to be born.

I'd send her some money and leave it at that. If she chooses to "grace you with her presence"--so be it. She is the "child"--you are the adults.

Remember not to use her mothers actions against her.

When I was in college I didn't have any extra money for gifts to family, even if I really loved them. Don't be too offended if she doesn't send a gift.

Also, I still refuse to be friends with either of my parents on Facebook. That is pretty common I think. He shouldn't be too offended.

My father was required to pay for my older sisters education after the divorce. Why not? He wouldn't have done it otherwise. He actually stopped paying after a year and never gave any more $.

I wouldn't give the cult one single penny. There must be limits to the $ he is required to pay. If not, tell her that if she wants to go to an instate college, where tuition would be less, her father would be willing to pay.

Her education at BYU is already paid for and the money has been given to the ex-wife per attorneys and court order.

The thing about FB is, I have my daughter on FB for the sole purpose of seeing what she's doing and what her friends are up to, etc. I'm not trying to spy on her, but being that she was a minor when she got on FB (15), I felt I needed to keep in the know about what was going on with her to some extent.

My husband and his daughter have been on FB together for about 6 months - I suggested that he FB her so that he could at least see pictures and such that she was posting of her life away at school, friends, etc. It seemed to work out great - then she blocked him for no apparent reason. Her mother is still friends with her on FB too. I suppose there is some reason why she blocked him - maybe the ex-wife found out and told her to block him. Also, blocking someone is different that just "unfriending" - we can't imagine why she would do this?