So, the Washington Post has a story today about posthumous baptisms of Jewish holocaust victims and survivors. It's the same story we've heard many times, but this time it kinda jarred my memory and reminded me of how I finally lost interest in not only the Mormon church, but religion in general.

Like many BICs on this board, I had my first great awakening at about 11 years old. I realized I didn't want to go on a mission. And I didn't want to go on a mission because I didn't really believe in the church. In fact, I didn't really believe in any religion because, I felt, religions at their most basic level exist to explain where we go when we die. But no one has died, been away for weeks or months, and come back to tell about it. So, it's all just speculation--speculation that I thought was too outlandish for me to continue accepting as truth.

Fast forward about 10 years, and I was sitting in a BYU religion classroom listening to the teacher talk about that wonderful piece of Mormon theology: paradise/the spirit prison. For those who don't know, Mormons believe that when you die you go to a holding pen before being judged and sent off to one of three heavenly kingdoms (or outer darkness for those really naughty souls). If you're a baptised Mormon and have accepted Jesus as your savior, you go to paradise, which was always described as being like a perfected version of life on Earth. If you have not been baptised and/or have not accepted Jesus, you go to the spirit prison, which is actually not a bad place, but you don't want to be there because it is not heaven.

Anyway, the teacher was going on about how this is necessary because Jesus is our advocate and no one is judged favorably without Jesus at out side, blah blah blah. Someone raised their hand and asked why we need to be judged at all. The teacher starts going off on how Justice (with a capital "J") requires it. He referred to both the BoM and the Bible as he continued to describe Justice as if it were a sentient being, and almost as if it were a fourth member of the godhead. I remember him saying that not even god himself can get in the way of Justice. I imagined Justice as a kicking, screaming, crusty, fat baby in a highchair throwing his food all over the place.

It was stupid.

When I was younger, I felt it reasonable to accept that we are in a fallen state and we need Jesus' help to overcome that. But it's a vague concept, and questions lead to more questions. Before you know it, you have this bloated system of salvation that reeks of human creation, riddled with often faulty human logic. Sitting in that classroom hearing about Justice and god and Jesus and spiritual holding pens, I just couldn't stand it anymore. This was so obviously man's attempt to assuage his fear of death, the greatest unknown in this world. There was absolutely no way that such a complex yet trifling and seemingly random system had been put into place. I mean, did someone sit down and decide how this was all going to work? If so, why couldn't they make it more simple? Why couldn't they make it more obvious and apparent?

It was during that class period that I finally admitted to myself that enough was enough. I did not believe in an afterlife, whether it be heaven, nirvana, or a wheel of rebirth, and I therefore did not believe in religion.

This all came back to me as I read the Washington Post article. The Mormons will continue to apologize to the Jews and vow to cease the baptism while secretly patting themselves on the back for moving souls from the spirit prison to paradise. Such a stupid concept.


So what was it for you? Was there a single moment where you finally decided enough was enough?

Each of us has individual reasons that caused us to finally think. But the beginning of my end came in 2006-2007 when I was trying to find answers and came across this recovery board. Until that time I didn't know that there was such a large group trying to cope with the same stuff, many of whom had resigned their membership. This gave me the moral strength I needed, and I said to myself, "I can do this! I can resign!" So I made plans in Dec. 2007 to get the hell out. As far as the doctrinal and historical stuff went, I pretty much knew it didn't match up, and that was depressing me. I couldn't see why others refused to see.

Prop 8 for sure. Up until that point, I already had doubts about the authenticity of the BoM (I have a degree in English and the BoM is all about Divine Providence, a popular religious concept of the time), I already knew priesthood blessings were a crock (too many that didn't happen despite my faith), and I knew priesthood leaders/callings were completely uninspired...

But Prop 8 pushed me over the edge. The church had already been dinged a few years back for promoting a defense of marriage act at church, and, yet, I watched them do sneaky, underhanded, potentially illegal things again with Prop 8. Both of my brothers were pressured by two California bishops in separate stakes to contribute money ("Are you going to go against what the prophet says?" "I'm sure you can find SOME money to give"). Meanwhile, my in-laws posted Yes on 8 signs in their yard and waved signs on street corners, even though their gay son was living with them at the time. You know, I could understand why many members supported Prop 8. Many less-educated people were caught up in the fear tactics--"They'll teach it to preschoolers" or "More kids will chose to be gay..." I understand that THEY might have thought they were doing what was best for society. But my in-laws have NO excuse. Anyone who knows a gay person has NO excuse. And the fact that the church bullied members in to it? UGH. All respect, gone.

Yeah, prop 8 was a biggie for me. It was the final straw as far as remaining a member. Up until then I had idealized views of the church being a flawed organization full of generally good people. I saw no harm in staying on the roles. But Prop 8 exposed the church as an insidious cyst on society full of mindless sheep. My own dad, who is one of the smartest people I know, donated thousands to the cause after goading from the church. After that, I had no interest in even being associated with Mormondom. So I left officially.

You make me so happy with that post. Prop 8 separated the wheat from the chafe. It was so polarizing morally and no person who is honest with themselves and knows how to love could do anything other that what you did.

The mormons proved once and for all with that that there is mean spirit at the core, and not just about the gay people.

Thanks! It always surprises me how many TBMs were/are NOT bothered by Prop 8 at all, and how willing they are to continue doing whatever the prophet asks. And then to have BKP give that anti-gay conference talk a couple months later and hear people praising it during farce and testiphony meeting the next month...too much for me.

I had known it was a farce for about 5 years. But I kept my doubt rather private, only telling my wife and a few close friends. Then last year two of my kids independently worked up the courage to tell me that they no longer believed. With those revelations I felt I needed to show the same courage they had shown.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2012 10:56AM by peregrine.

When the Book of Mormon was proven to be a fraud.

Last year at this time, I accidently stumbled on Polyandry while researching topics on the apologetics website. I began searching further into the matter of polygamy and came across this site and mormonthink and exmormonscholarlytestify. Once I started comparing facts to standard works and church approved materials, I then discovered who was lying and who was telling the truth.

LDS Inc was basically, omitting important details like JS having a gun in jail and using it, as well as the BoM not being changed at all and it is the Most correct book etc...

Soon I was able to reread all of the apologetics retorts to various things like DNA, Spalding script etc... and I could see they were talking around the subject rather than tackling it head on and discrediting it.


I was such a dope to believe. But never again, religion is dellusional and man made.

I realized that being a Mormon was like a gerbil an a wheel. There was no way to win.

For me it was learning about the Fanny Alger affair. Here I was trying not to touch myself or even think about unclad ladies year after year after year, and the great prophet of the restoration was out having actual illegitimate sex with other girls, and even other men's wives, while he was married to Emma. It threw open the shutters for me and I finally allowed myself to see Joseph and the chuch for what they truly were.

For me it was in 2011 when more emphasis was put on Joseph Smith than on Jesus Christ during what was supposed to be an Easter Sunday service.

giving vocal support to the Gulf War and saying "the COJCOLDS has always supported the wars of our country."

It is remarkable how many flaws become visible if one just steps away from something for a while.

When I looked back again at the church I grew up in, all my grand illusions of the magnificent gospel I grew up learning fell away and all I saw was a shabby little cult with delusions of grandeur, whose pews each week were full of shabby, mean-spirited, small-minded people.

Going to my boyfriends (now husband) Methodist church and hearing the emphasis on Jesus. I felt the Spirit more in that sermon than in any Sacrament meeting I had attended in my previous 18 years.

When I had my daughter. She was about an hour old in the hospital, and I looked down at her sweet, innocent face, and tried to picture teaching her the principles of the church.

"Hello, little daughter. You have a Heavenly Father, and a Heavenly Mother, but we don't talk about her. You're a girl, so you'll never hold the priesthood or be a leader to men, but you could possibly lead other women, and you'll definitely become a mother, because that's the highest calling for a woman. You are going to sin, and if you don't repent, you'll be unhappy for eternity. A stranger you never met thousands of years ago died and suffered for you, because you are imperfect."

The more I thought about it, the more I realized I needed to officially get away from it.

Around 2002 or 2003 I started noticing some hypocrasy in the people & scripture. Also started noticing the lack of focus on Jesus, which was starting to bother me a bit. Also the fact that when they talked about the church history, things seemed missing. Like holes in the stories.

I went out to Utah for the first time in the summer of 2003 (I was a convert from out east). And between the lady at testimony meeting talking about tatoos & ear peircings with my and my brother sitting there, and my brother has tats, and the thing that happened later that week I left Utah thinking what the..? The thing that happened later in the week was someone explained that my brother's grandmother had alzhimers was because she wasn't going to church. That made absolutely NO SENSE what-so-ever to me!! I instantly thought, so if she had alzhimers & was going to church he probably would have said it was because "God was testing her".

Between those 2 incidents and noticing how everyone else acted out there I ended up thinking, if I lived in Utah I would probably leave the church. I think that actually may have been my final straw. I remember now that after coming back from that trip I started thinking "I think I don't want to go to this church anymore". I started wondering how I could stop going without having mormons show up at my door wondering why I wasn't at church. My original plan was to leave the city I was in & not tell anyone from church where I moved. (lol, like that would have stopped them from finding me!!) Anyways, I ended up meeting my future husband (a nevermo) & stayed put.

I stopped going to church, then eventually decided to do my own research on Mormonism, and resigned a year later.

the bible warns about tatoos.

The bible also says to not eat shrimp..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2012 02:13PM by peglet.

America is going to burn in Hell. ;)

I converted the year GBH became prophet and the years he lead the church I was at the height of my TBMness. I loved GBH. When he died and Monson took over, I didn't have that same feeling about Monson. It was unsettling to me that I didn't feel in my heart that he was the prophet. I shook it off and DH (who was TBM at the time) said I just needed to get to know him better (?) and encouraged me to learn all I could about Monson so I could feel a connection with him like I did with GBH. It never happened. Monson has always creeped me the hell out. I realized that I in fact, did not sustain the prophet.

Looking back there were a lot of unsettling things that happened that I put on the proverbial shelf over the years but if I had to point to the final straw...

Prop 8.

Prop 8 was the Inception 'kick' that startled me out of my sleep.

I finally had to just leave after Prop 22, which was the precursor to Prop 8. I was 24, almost 25, at the time, & the whole thing made me sick. We had PH come to our house & try to force my dad into putting pro-Prop 22 banners on our lawn.

Realizing that there were no Golden Plates from any angel, and it was all the same pattern of other religions, based on a metaphysical, supernatural, visionary claim.

The witnesses claimed a "Spiritual Eye" experience - plus the notion that Joseph Smith Jr never showed his claimed treasure to anyone for measuring and weighing.

Those that claimed to have seen the ancient records could not agree on their size or weight.

And the claim that he "ran" through the woods with other "psychics" chasing him with these ancient records that according to all claims would have been very heavy seemed preposterous.

I read the account from the original church history on line and from there on out, I decided I didn't have any need to believe in any of it and changed my mind on the spot!

I'm the type of personality that gets to the laughter as quickly as possible in most situations (if it's possible!) and in this case, I knew that little voice in my head was right all along, and I was right on target. I could TRUST myself. I snickered and laughed for days and days about how clever it was and how it all came about, how well it all worked. And still working even to the extent of a huge financial empire with controls and power in many areas, particularly Utah where the culture abounds in greater numbers.

I understand that there was and is no need for actual artifacts to claim a translation. Never was. Worked best without that part, actually. Either I believed the claims or I didn't. It was easy to discard them as unacceptable for a method of religion to govern my life. It was not my heritage (I was a convert) and not my family traditions, so I could step out of the religion with no fear or guilt. And I did!

I didn't need to be angry, or resentful, or bitter. Those emotions came from some very difficult out of order behavior of the members, not the teachings anyhow and once I processed them, were gone forever.


Why is religion easy to accept and believe for most people throughout the history of humanity? Because people are very willing to believe a spiritual witness over any other kind. It's a litmus test of the power of God and who is going to challenge.....God! The notion that God is all powerful won't die.

Even in this day of great enlightenment, most people (from the stats I have read) believe in spirits, ghosts, hauntings, life after death communication, a creator, the power of God etc.

I have found that the best way to deal with the religion is not to make a negative issue with anyone.
Mormons are people first, just like me. I was one for decades, so I understand the religion very well. Up to a point, that is. Because I was a convert, I could never learn to think like a born in the bed Mormon! :-) I certainly tried.

I understand the spiritual importance of the beliefs, traditions, ordinances, special clothing,sacred writings, sacred edifices, dietary beliefs, etc. Those kinds of things are found in religions that are ancient also. The only question I had was whether I wanted to continue with that kind of life.
The immediate answer was: NO! Not anymore. Been there done that, not going to do it anymore.
Others can and do and that's fine with me.

finding out from my bishop that the Mormon prophet's statements superseded the teachings of Jesus.

That made me realize these were not Christians. When I converted, I never intended to leave Christianity.

Say what you want about definitions of Christianity based on doctrines. In my book, if you "follow" Jesus and believe what he said, you are Christian. If you have another book, like MOrmons do, that is superior to the Bible, you are not true Christians.

That was then. Now I realize that Christianity itself is a synthetic religious product designed by brilliant politicians in order to increase their swathe of power. It has little to do with spirituality and everything to do with money and power.

Jesus would have had nothing to do with the lot of them. But this is just my opinion and I totally respect the opinions of the rest of you (and probably held that opinion at one time myself!)

Peace

Anagrammy

Being totally whacked on the hamster wheel,4 callings and VT,took a few weeks out to get some energy back and thought What am I doing,felt low spiritually,found this site and resigned,the polyandry got me,then the first vision plus all the rest,so grateful that this site was around,4 years out now and enjoying life .

Opening my eyes. I was, what I'll call, a surface level mormon for my entire life right up until I came out recently. I did and said all the right things (never had any super important callings though). It is crazy to think I ever believed it all. I am feeling relief now for being such a crappy missionary. Years of knowing all of the right things to say and do are making it difucult though because everyone is clinging to those things and can't understand my decision. I believe the absolute fact of the matter is this, if the church didn't teach the "doctrine" of eternal marriage and family no one would stay a member. IMHO, that solitary "doctrine" is what keeps the whole deck of cards from falling.

DNA

The minute I heard that the American Indians had Asian DNA instead of Semitic DNA, I knew it was over.

We were out within a week, stopped all interaction with the Mormon church.
Within a few weeks, most of our family did the same.

DNA is neutral. DNA is not anti-Mormon.

There was nothing left to argue about. We were done with Mormonism.

It began with the lie about the power(s) of the priesthood.

When my sociopath (at the time) husband took the lessons and arrange to be baptised, all the while laughing and telling me what a bunch of fools the Mormons were. I just knew in my heart that they would "discern" the truth and not fall in with his plans.

As they laid him back into the water, tears ran down my face because I knew that he was right...they were fools, but then so was I.

My TBM mother seeing me cry thinking I was overcome with joy, put her arms around me and said, "This will put our family forward a hundred years." I never knew just what she meant by that and had no desire to ask.

I watched as he manipulated the members of the church with his lurid lies about me and turned them into his good witnesses in the divorce that I later found out he had been working on for three years prior to actually filing for divorce...siteing me with adultry. I wish that I had committed adultry. Anyway, he could not prove it, but got it on the grounds of cruel and inhuman treatment. I wish that had been true also. The rat-bastard is dead now, and if there is a hell, he is there.

That was what opened my eyes. It would take more "revelations" on my part before I picked up my purse and walked out one evening. It was the prophet's talk about if the single women in the church were not actively seeking a husband in the church, then they were living wrong.

To think that such a stupid man could mouth such stupid words and the women in the chapel were soaking it all up as, God's own true words. Well, I could see that I was definately not Mormon material and never would be.

I had tried the TBM thing, lost my true belief. Then I tried the "going through the motions for my family" thing and found that it just stuck in my craw.

For all the hurt and heartache that the lying cult put me and my children through...well, it made me mad enough that I wanted to hurt...yes, physically hurt them. Now, my anger is gone, but it took years.

I am surprised that as mean-spirited as a bunch of Mormons can be that no one has blown up a ward building or a temple.

Maybe that is because the ones who run, have more humanity in them than the ones who stay!

The mormons opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment in the 70s and their involvement in every other political question that has come up since.

I refuse to be told how to vote from the pulpit.

Finding out that Joseph Smith married other mens wives. All my life I had been bothered by how the "priesthood" was used by my friends, family and leaders, to manipulate others around them. I realized that Joseph Smith was just doing the same thing.

reading the book "No Man Knows My History" and only about 20 pages into it.

It all boiled down to it made me sad inside for a whole lot of reasons. Heavenly father didn't love me very much because I was female and because my husband wasn't a worthy priesthood holder, I wasn't good enough, I had no real friends, Jesus wasn't there and no one talked much about him, and I was told not to worship him or talk to him, so pretty much my original faith before I joined was being eroded. It all felt wrong and eventually felt like I was betraying my own self by staying. I went alone, felt sad when I was there and felt sad as I went to my car alone to drive myself home alone.

I had been inactive for years due to issues such as polygamy, treatment of women in the TSCC, changing doctrine, strange temple rituals, conservative politics, etc.

But, Prop 8 is when I knew I had to resign. It directly affected loved ones living in California, and I knew I could no longer tolerate being a member (even in name only), of a "religion" that was so determined to deprive certain Californians of the basic human right to marry and share a life (something that has meant so much to me and dh (a non-member) during the 33 years of our marriage).