I've heard the "bring a book," "bring a smartphone," etc. But I guess I'm worried about getting sucked back in somehow. Maybe that's an irrational fear.

The advantage is that I'll get another crack at my family members; show them how one doesn't have to bow to every damn demand made by ward leaders. I admit that I am a bit attracted to the idea about going back in and not being Mr. Pliable Humble.

"No, I don't want to meet with the Bishop."

"No, I don't want a calling."

"No, I don't want to go to any other meetings besides Sacrament."

"Look, I am just here for my wife and kids."

Then I started to think that all of my old "ward family members" will eye me suspiciously as the wolf in regular Mormon uniform that I'll be. So where will that put me? Will the love bombing and harassment commence, them all thinking that my "heart has softened," and that I'm ready to be coaxed back to full fellowship?

I appreciate others' perceptions and advice on this situation. TIA.

I may have missed a thread, but why are you going back to church?

One word of advice: Don't

back, e.g., reactivation efforts, love-bombing, fake fellowshipping that will make my skin crawl, the Bishop and his minions asking me to visit with him, people asking me where I've been and maybe trying to chastise me or give me subtle $hit (which I don't think will bother me), etc.

I'm resigned and attend monthly. It is free therapy. People don't know what to think and it is fun to see the look on their faces when they see me since they have already had my funeral. As a non member you answer to know one. It is amazing to view the TSCC with my new eyes and ears. Not sure if this makes sense. I may be a odd duck but I thoroughly enjoy lds church for one hour a month.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2012 09:17PM by templenameaaron.

Very interesting, it does say visitors welcome on their signs outside. I bet they just don't know what to say when you show up. dumbfounds them. You are very brave to go there and not let them have a hold over you. I wonder if they ever try and stop you in the hall and have that small talk they are famous for.

When I occasionally go to watch the kids in a primary program or DW play the piano for a RS performance, I go and listen and entertain the kids. I don't take the sacrament. I sing the songs if I feel like it. Most of all, I tell the kids and DW they did a great job. It's fun to look around during the prayers and see who else is looking around. Then you smile or nod at them. The few times I have stuck around for EQ, I wanted to bang my head against the nearest solid object, so I avoid it altogether now. SS is kind of fun with DW since they say stupid stuff all the time, and I just look at DW and smile knowingly. Usually she agrees with me about how ridiculous the things are. If I don't outright attack anything, but just smile awkwardly, it goes fine, and it can beat the boredom without damaging the relationship.

Maybe you can go a few times, and then one Sunday say you don't want to go unless it's going to be much better than the last few times. If she can't say for sure that it will be much better, then tell her you don't want to spend your time there. This might be better to do after you haven't attended for some other reason, like you were on a vacation, or after general conference. Just tell her you liked not going that week much better than going. Tell her you love her, but it just doesn't do anything for you, and you'd rather clean the house than sit through SM. She might go for a deal that you can stay home if you clean the house. It becomes easier after that. Good luck.

It helps to be up front about your feelings. That's what DH did for those years before I joined him in blissful apostasy. He said NO frequently and firmly. People tried to do the fake fellowshipping, but they quickly saw that it was going nowhere. After that, they pretty much left him alone.

Your success in this matter probably has more to do with how your wife handles things. I went to the various leaders (axillary and bishopric) and told them to back off, that the more they pushed DH, the less he wanted to be there. My approach was, "He'll come around when he's ready." That got people off his back and also let them know we didn't need/want any interventions. It also meant that we weren't promising them anything, and they essentially lowered their expectations for him. If your wife handles things in a similar way, you should be okay. But, if your wife encourages or instigates the "Let's all make derrida feel welcome until he turns TBM again" campaign, you're going to have a harder time. Good luck!

I attend regularly with my family.

Honestly I sometimes feel some very "spiritual" emotions once in a while.

However, every time I attend just makes me more and more convinced I a right and they are wrong. The ridiculousness is just so clear.

It's kind of an interesting feeling to feel like you are the smartest only non-deluded person in the whole building.

My experience is that pretty much no one says anything to me about my limited attendance. Those who were my friends before are still my friends. The rest I haven't really noticed or cared what their reaction is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2012 10:48PM by ronas.

Going back to TSCC to try to show something to others does not make any sense to me either.

suckafoo: I don't want to go back in the sense that I think there's something there that I'm missing or that I regret anything. I like my extra two months of time and 10% income.

What's made me think I could go back has been A) some people here recommending it as a way to stay close to my wife and B) the NOMs who actually believe, idealistically, that one can make of the LDS church experience what one wants.

My greatest wish is that my family will see through the LDS church's manipulative hamster wheel program for life and tell me they get it and that they don't want to go back. But until that time I have weird disaffections to contend with in my home, with my TBM wife and kids. The wife has been pretty cool about my strong dislike and disgust at the LDS church.

MJ: The point of going back wouldn't be to show church members anything. I might get some pleasure out of being the derrida who can say "No," but I'd be going back to infiltrate my family members' assumptions about evil, lost, "in a dark place," Dad. Right now we can't have any conversations about the LDS church. The theory is that if I went back once in a while there might be some communication channels opened now and then that before were shut down or non-existent. It's been two years since I stopped going to church and I'd like to find some way to jiggle the relationship with my family members. Maybe if they see me making some sort of effort to be with them, they'll be more likely at some point to understand my point of view or see what I see when I'm there.

Now, I guess because my experience of the LDS church was so much based in fear and anxiety--fear of leaders, anxious to be a good soldier and do what I was told--that there would be, as templenameaaron said, there's an element of "free therapy" in going back, facing the bullies, the vicitimizers, the righteously self-secure TBMs who bat not an eye at judging me, in spite of the fact that they are brainwashed and indoctrinated to the gills in a fraudulent groupthink.

And as holistic said, there's an element of bravery in going back, in being able to go back, in even being willing to consider going back. Leaving the church put me through the wringer (as it does many others)--I was in fear of losing my family, of being judged a failure in everything that matters, in being some sort of substandard human being. I began to get hives, experience panic attacks and anxiety and allergies in a way I never had in my entire life. The LDS church is a bad place for me. To be able to face it, to walk in there, to not be intimidated by the sanctimonious behaviors and judgments--to experience my real freedom...maybe being willing to go back in there is a way to do that. Free therapy. And yes, a silent but by my very presence there, a sort of f*ck you to them and their putative authority over me and my family. These Mormons would leave my family destroyed and not think too much about it b/c their loyalty isn't to families, as they profess, but to the "good name of the church." Individuals be damned; families be damned. The LDS church comes first.

Well not anymore.

By "show" I meant "communicate" by actions or words.

It makes no sense to me to tell them a lie, that you believe, only to tell them, in one way or another, that what you now say you believe in is a lie. To affectively say, I believe, but my claim that I believe is a lie.

What will happen when they find out that your claims that you believe is a lie? You will simply confirm their beliefs.

I do not think simply going to church while still claiming not to believe will improve communications with your father and your family, you will most likely have to lie and say you believe.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 06:52AM by MJ.

I wouldn't lie. They will learn that I'm not interested, if they ask. I have no problem telling them that I think it's all a fraud but that I go to church to be with my family.

I think what you are saying makes sense. You simply say, "I'm here because I love you. I'm here because you are more important to me than how I feel about the church. I'm here to support you, but I don't want to be part of this." That's what DH did--and while it ultimately led me out of the church (as I started to look at what was said/taught through his eyes), it meant a lot to me that he was willing to go for me and the kids. So, it was never a lie. We knew how he felt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 10:28AM by nowI'mfound.

derrida Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> What's made me think I could go back has been A)
> some people here recommending it as a way to stay
> close to my wife


Could be a good idea


> and B) the NOMs who actually
> believe, idealistically, that one can make of the
> LDS church experience what one wants.


a possibility, but in a "cult" that's really tough, you have a giant billion dollar institution that it quite sure that your experience will be what it wants it to be.


>
> My greatest wish is that my family will see
> through the LDS church's manipulative hamster
> wheel program for life and tell me they get it and
> that they don't want to go back.


I don't know everything, but I don't think that your going to Sacrament Meeting will move you closer to this goal

> But until that
> time I have weird disaffections to contend with in
> my home, with my TBM wife and kids. The wife has
> been pretty cool about my strong dislike and
> disgust at the LDS church.
>
> MJ: The point of going back wouldn't be to show
> church members anything. I might get some
> pleasure out of being the derrida who can say
> "No," but I'd be going back to infiltrate my

Well, it would certainly be a good place to practice saying "no" and practice make perfect.


> family members' assumptions about evil, lost, "in
> a dark place," Dad. Right now we can't have any
> conversations about the LDS church. The theory is
> that if I went back once in a while there might be
> some communication channels opened now and then
> that before were shut down or non-existent.

I'm not seeing it. I don't know your family but typical Mormon response to a former believer is "evil."

Typical Mormon response to a former believer who attends church won't be "Ok, let's listen to what he has to say "bad" about the church.


It's
> been two years since I stopped going to church and
> I'd like to find some way to jiggle the
> relationship with my family members. Maybe if
> they see me making some sort of effort to be with
> them, they'll be more likely at some point to
> understand my point of view or see what I see when
> I'm there.

I don't think so.

There's a psychological phenomenon (I think it's called distancing? Maybe some of the professionals could help out here) where you leave something that is bad for you but was once familiar, you feel the impluse to go back occasionally, but the time between each occassion becomes longer.

Could that be what you are feeling? That's pretty much what happened with me. Even though I wanted nothing to do with the church, I wanted the familiarity and/or I was curious if I could handle it, if things had changed.

I found myself returning for a visit after a year, then 2 years after that, then, say 3 years after that, until when finally, if I got the urge, I'd say to mayself, that last 3 experiences have been horrible, it will always be horrible, you've proven it to yourself, and then I lost the urge to go back.

Is it like the abused still wanting to return to the abuser? In your case, I don't know, but I'd be cautious.


>
> Now, I guess because my experience of the LDS
> church was so much based in fear and anxiety--fear
> of leaders, anxious to be a good soldier and do
> what I was told--that there would be, as
> templenameaaron said, there's an element of "free
> therapy" in going back, facing the bullies, the
> vicitimizers, the righteously self-secure TBMs who
> bat not an eye at judging me,

Could be, and it might be a good experience for you. See above. But that's not the same as doing it to open a new line of communication with your family.

I think it is important to be very, very clear on what is going on with you.


in spite of the fact
> that they are brainwashed and indoctrinated to the
> gills in a fraudulent groupthink.
>
> And as holistic said, there's an element of
> bravery in going back, in being able to go back,
> in even being willing to consider going back.
> Leaving the church put me through the wringer (as
> it does many others)--I was in fear of losing my
> family, of being judged a failure in everything
> that matters, in being some sort of substandard
> human being. I began to get hives, experience
> panic attacks and anxiety and allergies in a way I
> never had in my entire life. The LDS church is a
> bad place for me. To be able to face it, to walk
> in there, to not be intimidated by the
> sanctimonious behaviors and judgments--to
> experience my real freedom...maybe being willing
> to go back in there is a way to do that. Free
> therapy. And yes, a silent but by my very
> presence there, a sort of f*ck you to them and
> their putative authority over me and my family.


Yes, could well be. But not the same as using it to open communication with your family. See above.

> These Mormons would leave my family destroyed and
> not think too much about it b/c their loyalty
> isn't to families, as they profess, but to the
> "good name of the church." Individuals be damned;
> families be damned. The LDS church comes first.
>
>
> Well not anymore.


Whatever you decide, best of luck.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 06:43AM by MJ.

Probably you just wishing you coulda woulda shoulda if only you woulda done this or that ... But it's too late. You need to put it behind you and move on. The best place to be effective is on line. People read this stuff. It's rare that family will listen to you. If they ever listen it will be to what strangers say or what they find on line. I'm not sure why that is. You don't want to go back. At least I can't imagine you wouldn't remember why you chose not to attend any more in the first place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2012 11:41PM by suckafoo.

I think it is good for you and good for your family.

But that's only because I've come to kind of know you hear on the board. You are strong and determined--your fear that somehow they will pull their invisible strings is unfounded.

I endorse your plan to face your fears with your newfound strength and individuality. Rewriting that script is great therapy for you. Also, if you can pull it off, you can answer that you are there for your family because family comes first, right?

You are correct that a smiling, non-eyerolling derrida is a powerful witness against their smarmy testimony "I don't know what I would be if it weren't for this church." You attending church, if you can stand it, sends a great message of tolerance if you are able to speak freely to your children. "Daddy doesn't believe but still wants to be with his family because family comes first."

These are powerful church-not-first lessons the kids will always remember.

Best to you! Your kids have a good shot at having a normal life because of you, the hero.

Anagrammy

A healthy relationship with the mormons after resigning sounds like a good idea. Most people have a culture to fall back on and don't have to reject their culture like exmos do. If you can do it, of course. I fit that class that refused regular church attendance at first then eventually only attended for special special family occasions. But, I never resigned. I decided my only connection with mormonism is through my family. I keep my family and don't worry about the other mormons. So, it is no use for me to attend church. I try to connect with my family. I don't try too hard to connect with other mormons.

it was more or less as if I'd never left, or missed a meeting. Same O Same O. It seems things never change in that church. Same old BORING meetings. . Zzzzzzzzz....
The ladies in Relief Soc. were very nice/friendly, etc.-----made me feel very comfortable, etc. But, after attending fairly reg. for a few mos.---- I was never assigned a Home Teaher, nor a Visiting Teacher------which was really fine w/me, for a # of reasons. But, then I got a cold, etc. and had to miss a wk. or two; then had a fam. wedding on a wknd. and just sort of got out of the habit of reg. attendance.
Well, lo and behold-----even tho' the Rel. Soc. President and her counselors, etc. had gotten to know me quite well------not ONE PERSON in that ward ever called to see how I was doing, etc. And, they had my #, as they called me from time to time when I was still attending reg.
They also knew that the rest of my fam. members were all TBM's and that I have bros. who were Bishops and Stk. Pres., etc. And (the Biggie here)--------that I'd left the church, and had not attended in sev. yrs.
Nice, huh? How "caring"/concerned they were about me. NOT. That was the final "proof" that I was just a name on their roster rolls------one more potential future member whom they could possibly gain some tithing from-------was my take on it. Of course there's many many credible/valid reasons I left TSCC many yrs. ago. Looks like I was right about it/them after all. Hmmmmmmm. . . . . .
Any of you had similar experiences if/when you ever went back after sev. yrs. of non-attendance ? If so, please share your experiences, and thanks.

I wouldn't and don't attend any church for anyone. But, after reading this thread, I see it works for some. In the end, it's what works for you personally. Have fun with it if you do. You could always bring one "anti-mormon" book with you each sunday to beat the boredom.

Load a list of logical fallacies onto your smartphone. Become familiar with them. Then make a game out of identifying every abuse of logic and reason that comes from the pulpit.

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx

It's entertaining and it will reenforce your lack of belief.

Your being pressured into attending a church you do not believe in. Tell your family and friends that point blank. Tell them that forcing you to attend is cultist behavior, and that you will not be pressured into doing something against your will.

If you are staying in the church for your kids, don't. It is not healthy for them either. If they are older, then you can not make them stop attending, but you can set an example.

...and it was just so vapid and tedious. Looking around, it was clear many of the faithful felt the same. But I was just there for the day. I don't know how they keep doing it. How did I keep doing it back when I was a believer? Was it just the fear of what would happen if I didn't participate? Did I really think I was getting something important at those meetings?

I'd have to say "No". It is run like a business. Book of Abraham is a fraud. Several first vision stories...I can go on. Religion is all fraud IMO

http://www.spectaclesblog.com/?p=3246

You could even turn it into a business among the faithful and bored. :-)

I don't think there is anything wrong with attending at arms length and especially if it helps family unity or makes you more credible to family and friends when discussing more difficult issues if needs be.

But, you know what will come eventually? It's difficult to be part time or less than 100% in Mormonism. All the lessons are geared up for full Temple Recommend Status and Obedience.

You'll have to be firm and assertive and it can be difficult. No point in pretending, just say it how it is(with care?).

If I had family in church then I would likely attend at arms length. I have no family ties, so for me it's been a relatively easy escape though not pain free.

And as others have mentioned already, you could treat it as fun and throw in a few truths that are not usefull if and when appropriate. You'll know when to say something, just go by the spirit. :)

I wish I had thrown in a few truths during lessons in my final months but I was feeling so angry with it all that my only thoughts were how to get out of the situation as soon as possible that i'd slowly been drawn into over 2 years, without upsetting a close 'fake'(now it seems)TBM friend.

She still shunned me! Serious Stuff!

PS You could always help out the unsuspecting investigators and any newly baptised with some truths they don't yet know. Thats what I did.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 12:14PM by zeezrom.