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Posted by: thecheese ( )
Date: February 23, 2012 10:43AM

Is there any truth to this? Are mormons really doing this? If so, how many laws are they breaking if any? Is this even against the law?

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Posted by: informer ( )
Date: February 23, 2012 10:44AM


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Posted by: Tabula Rasa ( )
Date: February 23, 2012 10:46AM

Yes! It's a worldwide epidemic of scofflawing. The church pays about $3000 per missionary to have them smuggled across borders! Where the Mexican smugglers are called "coyotes", these missionary smugglers are called "cureloms".

And if you believe that...

Ron

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Posted by: grubbygert ( )
Date: February 23, 2012 01:17PM

http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_12787617

"To avoid such problems, the church has assigned undocumented prospective missionaries (who must declare their immigration status before serving) only to U.S. missions. Those missionaries likely will have to stay out of airports and arrive and leave by car, bus or train."

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: February 23, 2012 01:20PM

and...dropping all pretense of observing the laws of the land.

BTW, they fired all their undocumented gardeners from working on the temple grounds. So now they do that work for free. Just trying to stay in line with the law, folks.

When it suits them.


Anagrammy

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Posted by: Dances with Cureloms ( )
Date: February 23, 2012 01:25PM

When she arrived the Mission President took her passport and said they would get her visa soon. The never did her entire time (18 months) there.

She was almost busted twice by the police (road side bus inspections) if it wasn't for local members who were able to smooth things over.

TCoJCoLdS... being honest in the dealings with their fellowman since, well, never!

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: February 23, 2012 02:20PM

But this is just a common ploy used by mission presidents in many missions outside the US to keep their missionaries from bolting. They confiscate your passport so you can't use it. Then if you try to leave, you would have to go through the mission offices. This is illegal for mission presidents to do because in all foreign countries your passport must be in your possession at all times. A passport is owned by the issuing government, and nominee is the caretaker and that's the end of it. One is never supposed to surrender it, and mission presidents who demand that their missionaries do so are setting them up for problems like being detained if they are in an accident or some minor scrape with the law.

Many mission presidents--the arrogantly American ones, anyway--believe in the mistaken notion that they can go down to the police station crying, "We're A-MER-i-cans!" and that that alone will solve any issue. If a visa isn't required before entering the country, a lot of mission offices ignore it because they figure that the visa has been overtaken by the event of your arrival in the country. This, however, can at the very least get you ejected from the country, and at worst, get you sent to the slammer for a while. Again, so many American mission presidents believe they can make it all right by demanding that they're Americans and have "rights."

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: February 23, 2012 03:12PM

Taking another person's passport away is a felony. I believe the current punishment for doing so is four years in a federal institution.

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Posted by: Chris Deanna ( )
Date: February 24, 2012 09:37AM

I was asked by my Mission Pres if I would extend my 18 months to 20 months to train a new Sister. When I left the country, immigration told me that I was only supposed to be there for 6 months and that I had been illegal the rest of the time. I stood there looking stupid enough that they just stamped my paperwork and let me through. BTW, my "reason" for being in the country was documented as a "minister."

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: February 23, 2012 02:12PM

Here's a link from the Center for Immigration Studies to an important article about this very thing:

http://cis.org/mormon-church-and-illegal-immigration

Church Protects Itself

Once the Church recognized that it was walking a fine legal line with its don’t ask don’t tell policy, and as illegal aliens joined the Church in ever-greater numbers, the Church, as noted earlier, had U.S. Sen. Robert Bennett covertly amend the U.S. immigration act in 2005 to protect it from possible violations of U.S. immigration law. Under Bennett’s amendment, churches were given legal immunity from immigration laws that make it a crime to house, transport, and provide stipends to illegal aliens. Bennett’s amendment reads:

“Section 274(a)(1) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1324(a)(1) is amended by adding at the end the following: ‘(C) It is not violation of clauses (ii) or (iii) of subparagraph (A), or of clause (iv) of subparagraph (A) except where a person encourages or induces an alien to come to or enter the United States, for a religious denomination having a bona fide nonprofit, religious organization in the United States, or the agents or officers of such denomination or organization, to encourage, invite, call, allow, or enable an alien who is present in the United States to perform the vocation of a minister or missionary for the denomination or organization in the United States as a volunteer who is not compensated as an employee, notwithstanding the provision of room, board, travel, medical assistance, and other basic living expenses, provided the minister or missionary has been a member of the denomination for at least one year.’”

Once the Church had immunity, it was free to continue its missionary efforts among illegal aliens. In addition, it could now openly send illegal aliens on missions within the United States rather than requiring them to return to their home countries for extended periods before allowing them to serve missions.

In an exception to its “don’t ask, don’t tell policy,” Church leaders now identify and make accommodations for illegal aliens who are called on missions. The Church does not assign them to missions outside of the United States because if they leave the United States, they cannot legally reenter the United States for at least 10 years due to their previous illegal status.90

However, while the Church has immunity, illegal alien missionaries do not.

In 2009, a Mormon missionary was arrested at the Cincinnati airport while returning home from his mission and turned over to ICE. The arrest brought the issue of illegal alien missionaries to the front and many Church members were surprised to learn that the Church allows illegal aliens to serve missions.

Following the arrest of the missionary, Elder Jeffery R. Holland, a member of the LDS Church’s Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, acknowledged that illegal aliens were serving as missionaries when he told a Salt Lake Tribune reporter that “They [missionaries] go knowing themselves that they’re at risk, and nothing in our mission call changes that. They know that, and we know that, and we work within those parameters to have them be constructive, honorable, faithful, spiritual, religious emissaries for that period of service.” Elder Holland, also confirmed that there had been an ongoing discussion about illegal aliens serving missions for 15 years.91



This subject is referenced in several newspapers, including this Peggy Fletcher Stack blog in the the Trib, since updated and containing less information than the original:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/53551927-68/mormon-latino-mormons-immigration.html.csp

It's important to go to the SLTrib site above (.../53551927-68/...and not the updated URL (.../53551868-180/...) because the latter takes you to a cleaned up version that makes no reference to the illegal transportation thing by the LDS church: ..."it is estimated that nearly 70 percent of Latino Mormons are illegal immigrants. He said the church has responded by hiring members whose sole jobs are to transport some Latino missionaries from state to state because they can't fly due to their immigration status."

While it is underhanded and seems like there is no intention to "obey the law of the land," it is no longer illegal for the Mormons to do this. It's certainly against the spirit of the law of the land, since the missionaries would STILL be arrested if ever caught for any reason. I wonder if they're concerned about that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 02:45PM by cludgie.

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Posted by: anonymous ( )
Date: February 23, 2012 02:27PM

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
.... While it is underhanded and seems like
> there is no intention to "obey the law of the
> land," it is no longer illegal for the Mormons to
> do this. It's certainly against the spirit of the
> law of the land, since the missionaries would
> STILL be arrested if ever caught for any reason. I
> wonder if they're concerned about that.


I'm sure they are not concerned because If the illegal gets caught it's their fault, not the church's, nothing is EVER the churc's fault.

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Posted by: snb ( )
Date: February 23, 2012 05:49PM

I find it impossible to believe that a church could be held accountable for the illegal actions of its members.

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Posted by: lulu ( )
Date: February 24, 2012 09:45AM

very informative

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Posted by: upsidedown ( )
Date: February 23, 2012 02:22PM

you should cut and paste the correct article that wasn't cleaned up before it gets removed.

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Posted by: goat ( )
Date: February 23, 2012 03:03PM

On a similar note, I found out as I was leaving my mission in Uruguay that all misionaries are givien a temporary visa (30 days) when we got to the country. After that time we were supposed to go down to the government office and get an official 'cedula'. Only the assistents to the president were ever official, when all the other missionaries left the country we had to pay a fine for not getting. I only found out about this because my dad came down to pick me up and we had to do it ourselves, ... normally the mission office does it. The reason they do it that way is that is is cheaper to pay the fine than it is to actually register each person. I was bothered when I found out that they weren't obeying the law of the land

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: February 23, 2012 05:14PM

when airport security got tight.... requiring IDs & papers for foreigners... apparently some mishs 'serving' in the U.S. didn't have the pprwork to board a flight home.

Even Amtrak & busses started checking IDs (against WHAT??? their agents are Civilians!!!)

that's my Story, and I'm sticking to it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 05:20PM by guynoirprivateeye.

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Posted by: snb ( )
Date: February 23, 2012 05:46PM

Where are they going? Why are they illegal?

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: February 24, 2012 08:56AM

Just sayin'. They're illegal because they have no papers, and the LDS church is still sending them on missions. The missionaries are sometimes still caught, and the church has no backstop for them.

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Posted by: snb ( )
Date: February 24, 2012 09:14AM

Illegible posts deserve answers like the ones I gave. Not to mention the fact that the OP didn't post an article.

Also, I'll post when and what I want, whether or not you think I should be doing anything.

Just sayin'.

Thanks for the clarification though.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: February 24, 2012 09:17AM

(Always the comeback that works for me.)

(Asshole.)

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