hey guys,

I've been not believing for a long time even though I went to church with my wife and 3 young children every Sunday. My wife knew I didn't believe anymore and I always supported her going even though I think she questions it but needs that shoulder to lean on in life and feels the church is good for the kids. I just went because I remember seeing those moms with all the kids and the dad stayed home and we all felt sorry for that mom, i didn't want that to be my wife. But I finally told her I can't be an imposter anymore, I can't lie and do hometeaching, go out with missionaires and want to change people from their system of life. I've gained huge benefits from the Church, I love the people, I just feel we don't know what life is about as humans.

The Bishop, who is a nice man, told me I just need to humble myself and stop being stubborn to the Lord. I think it is more humble to accept that I honestly don't know what life is about and I don't know what happens after I die. I think it's incredibly arrogant and ignorant to say that you know without a shadow of a doubt the mysteries of the universe and what happens when you die.

I can't say that the church isn't true, I don't know- I'm a human with no special insight, but I'm not going to go around telling others that this is the true church.

But I honestly do feel the void in my life that the church filled. It's a social void, it's an answers void. It's harder accepting that I don't know the answers and don't have a system of beliefs now. I still subscribe to a LDS lifestyle but just don't believe in the doctrine.

I really am trying to figure out what to fill the void with now, I'm not atheist as they don't believe in God. I'm a "I honestly don't know"-ist, I wouldn't rule anything out but I'm not enrolling in anything either. I can't say there is or isn't a god because I don't know. For some reason I still pray to God every night, and after I tell myself logically that there's no one listening but it's a habit and it feels good.

So what's a ex-mormon supposed to believe? Where do I find my answers to the great mysteries of the universe?

The great mysteries of the Universe are not found through religion, especially not the Mormon church.

The Mormon church has made up a history of the America's that has zero basis in reality. It is not true.

Continue to be a good husband and father. Treat others with respect, and do so with dignity. Seek knowledge and truth in the world. You will be happy without the church. If you want religion in your life I would suggest trying a Unitarian church. They tend to take what is good from religion without what is bad as well as what is nonsensical. If you don't want religion in your life anymore; understand and know that you can still be a great person without it. We support you on here, and there is support face to face if you need it.

Belief and believing are vastly over-rated. You may want to try just being for a time, consciously experimenting on the idea that there is nothing to believe in. Just for giggles...

You can always sample new beliefs later at you leisure. But you may want to read Eric Hoffer's "The True Believer" before you sample new beliefs. A classic examining every facet of the dynamics of the belief process.

A philosophy that celebrates the process of seeing through belief is Buddhism. Buddhists would say you are at an auspicious point in your life, as you have come to question your belief paradigms. It can be very liberating to discard beliefs and attachments to beliefs.

Theravada buddhism yes...other branches have religious aspects to them.

Thanks Archaeologymatters,

I appreciate the advise.

I actually checked out the Unitarian Church. It's funny, I took an online survey titled "what's your religion" and it's a series of questions that tells you what you are so I'm actually a Unitarian according to them.

I went solo and they made me feel welcome but still sit you down and go over the membership fee. I guess when you step away from theology religion you're looking for a social club, and like any social club there are member dues.

I disagree with your assessment that you don't have a system of beliefs. From reading a few short paragraphs that you wrote, I can speculate what part of your moral code might be:

Empathy: You put yourself in your wife's shoes about what it would feel like to be judged as the wife of an inactive husband, and you don't want her to experience being on the receiving end of that judgment and pity from ward members, so you've attended even though you didn't want to be there.

Integrity: You can't lie anymore or continue to be, as you called it, an imposter. This one can be tough because of a tug-of-war between being true to yourself and wanting to support your wife.

Respect for others: It seems that you have a sense of personal boundaries which can be lacking in a lot Mormons. You respect that people just might be intelligent enough to know what is best for their own lives without Mormons barging into their homes to testify with 100% assurity how wrong they've been living their lives.

Kindness: I understand that tone can be difficult to read online, but the tone of your post seems very kind. You even compliment your Bishop after he said some not very nice (and not very accurate) things about you. Don't be afraid to body check that Bishop if he becomes too rude or boundaryless. You don't deserve that disrespect. IMO, he's already crossed that line.

Loving: It sounds like you very much love your wife and look for ways to do what you need to do to be true to yourself while causing as little disruption in her world as possible.

You don't need religion or even a God to be a decent human being with a strong moral code--or if "moral" strikes you as too religious--a personal code. You get to define what that is.

Good thoughts and best wishes to you and your family.

This is a fantastic breakdown.

One of the biggest hurdles that I think Mormons (and others who come from "one true church" backgrounds) have when their beliefs no longer mesh with the teachings of the church is that there's this need to replace A with B. It's an understandable trapping, because that's the programming that's been in place: if you don't belong to a church, you are without belief.

That's simply not true. Everyone has belief of some sort - belief is merely the way we interpret the world around us. Some people's beliefs focus on divinity. Others' beliefs focus on humanity. Belief does not equal God. Belief merely equals our personal code of ethics.

IMHO, the concept that belief is personal and that no definition of belief is required to be a good person is a scary thing for someone who has lived in a "one true church" atmosphere to accept.

Surrender Dorothy,

wow, that was a really warm and refreshing assessment on my character.Thanks.

Yeah the bishop, like members feel really obligated to "preach" to me. But if I gave them my testimony of truth they would be really offended.

surrender dorothy,

You nailed it with the integrity tug of war, about being true to myself and trying to support my wife. For 3 years It's really difficult to play that balancing act. I really have to give much credit to my wife who also supports me 100% and has never tried to preach to me to stay or ask me to come back to the church.

And I don't step all over her belief system. I respect her beliefs as a human. Why would I want to strip someone's faith from them? I do the family home evening thing and am going this sunday because the kids are singing something for the easter sacrament meeting.

But I'm lucky to have a wife that loves me no matter what.

I'm atheist.
Joining another church makes no sense to me.
Mormonism will always be my heritage. It can't be taken away by them or by me any more than my language and dialect can. I resigned from the mormon corporation known as "the church", but it's stuck with me for life as my cultural frame of reference. I will always be Utah-centric, aware of mormon sensitivities, sensitive to mormon nuances, and most likely I will always have some contact with the church through family.
My relationship to the church is clear and defined...I resigned. I am no longer a member. I am a former member who still has family ties. The church has tens of thousands of us, no hundreds of thousands, and in time it will be millions.

It's okay not to know. Mormonism teaches that it has all the answers. So shifting to a paradigm where you don't have all the answers is discomfiting. It's a new thing for you, but you will most likely develop a comfort level with it after a while.

You might enjoy cruising the religion, philosophy, or new age section of your local bookstore or library. There's a whole world of ideas out there. You can try some new ideas on for size, and accept, reject, modify, and/or change ideas as needed.

Your question betrays your habit of Mormon-think: if you don't know what to believe, you ask someone in authority, and they will tell you what you are supposed to believe. Then you decide to believe that.

That isn't how it should work.

My suggestion: start with this basic premise: There may be questions to which there are no "right" answers, or even no answers at all. And that's OK.

Second premise: It is better to have no answers to some questions than to believe in wrong answers.

Third premise: It's OK to re-evaluate and change your beliefs when you get new ideas. As often as you like.

Believe in yourself and in god (not GOD).
I think you already believe in yourself. That's why you have rejected another's worldview in favor of your conscience.
I think you already believe in god (the agnostic/athiest God) that your life is a life examined, and the very existence of the universe is a mystery.
Peace

You can believe in personal spirituality. A way of living above the eat-and-be-eaten, something more transcendent than cooperation for social exchange.

Remember, you have a paradigm you are viewing through which was conditioned into your mind by people with a personal, vested interest in sucking your wallet. They gave you the idea that they "knew" and that you should do like them--pretend you "know" too.

Fortunately you are onto them and your post reflects a thoughtful man of deep character and caring. Religion was originally supposed to just help people connect with that "something more" way of living that brought not just happiness, but joy.

Over time, corruption set in and the pointers decided to point at themselves instead of god. They are the important ones--but never mind, it was always about the seeker of the ineffable, that which cannot be described. We see people go to India and come back "changed" in some way that makes them happier. They've had a paradigm shift and that's what you have had. You have become humble and realized you don't know squat--and neither do they. The certainty they offer is bogus.

So one step forward in honesty is a big step for a man. Mormonism replaced the conscience, the inner wisdom, the still small voice from within, with the Holy Ghost who would whisper instead. Why? So they could yank it away if you don't do what they say. "You've lost the spirit," they will tell you. A Mormon will never tell you to consult your own conscience. They want that power that lies within you and they want you to think every shiver of joy you experience comes from obeying them.

Not so, my friend. All that power is inside you and always was. The desire to be gentle, kind and loving is part of human nature. We are born perfect--we are not born with some kind of sin that religionists have to heal or offer a savior. Anyone can look at their babies and know in your heart they are perfect just the way they are.

The Western idea of original sin when combined with capitalism/advertising results in a self-aversion which plagues most of us. We just know there's a deficiency down deep. We feel like we aren't measuring up, that there's something wrong with us. Every corporation and every religion is selling you a cure for some deficiency.

You are free now to explore the wonderful exciting world within yourself. You have been cut off from inner exploration and let me tell you, it transcends any world-wide cruise you might take. You will find opinions and capacities inside yourself you never imagined. When it comes to Mormons, I like to call it experiencing the expanded self for the first time. Imagine your self as a blue sheet of construction paper when you were Mormon. You glued cotton balls to it and called them clouds. Now imagine that in your new paradigm, you see that you were always the sky and the clouds passing by were not made by you and have no effect on you, who remain serene and blue above.

That is the difference between the contracted self of the black/white, right/wrong world of missionaries bent on selling their version of "truth" and the expanded self of the individual filled with loving kindness towards humanity, all creatures, and the planet.

Now that your mind is opened you can take the advice of some of these posters and find out what the rest of humanity has been thinking about the soul, god, psychology, whatever. Find out what the appeal was in Confucianism, what problems it solved. Read about the myths of the world and how they relate to religion. And how some of our prejudices this very day are related to myths. With an open mind and a connected computer, you are an adventurer in thought.

And you can share your discoveries with your loved ones, get them thinking in a less divisive way about the world.

Congratulations on getting out of mind jail.

Anagrammy

and it felt WONDERFUL to finally be able to say "I don't know".

You don't HAVE to know. In contrast to your bishop's assessment, I think agnosticism shows a great deal of humility. I actually don't believe ANYONE knows. You are just admitting it.

If there is a God and He really wanted you to know He exists, He could make that happen. The fact that He doesn't make His own presence obvious says something.

Maybe, if He's there, He wants to see how people live when He's not around. Or maybe He's just not there.

I came to the conclusion that the ONLY thing that matters, the ONLY fair way to judge a person was not by the religion they attended or the God they believed in, but WHAT KIND OF PERSON they are. And I held on to the thought that if there was a God, he'd understand why I didn't believe in Him anymore.

I've ended up in the solid atheist camp, but I very much respect agnosticism.

You sound like a great guy. Good luck in your journey out.

jojax14u Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's harder accepting that I don't
> know the answers and don't have a system of
> beliefs now.


You don't need to attach yourself to a system. You just need to figure out what YOU believe. Otherwise, you'll spend your life trying to believe things you don't. You already know how that turns out.

You are in a transition period,and that is a hard place to be. When I stopped believing in Mormonism for a while I wanted some other hard answers. Fortunately, I didn't find them. Over time I came to different ways of understanding things, a piece at a time. I still revise my outlook.

The hardest things were dealing with the anxiety that came with not knowing and feeling somehow morally bad at not having answers. Mormonism makes not having answers a moral issue,an issue of your "worthiness" and a "failing" that will effect your being for eternity.

The flip side to this is leaning and revising your outlook can be exciting and interesting. A whole new world of questions and information opened up as I began to let go and simply follow my curiosity. I hadn't realized how much my curiosity, which I find very pleasurable, and been stifled because I was afraid it would lead to my finding out Mormonism isn't what it claims. But finding out about Mormonism became an object of curiosity, too, so there was an element of enjoyment in trying to understand it differently, too.

In any case, welcome to a new world. :-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2012 11:14AM by robertb.

When I left the mormon church, I was studying Zen. A good friend of mine was a monk in another tradition and told me "those guys are nuts". Well one day, I was sitting there and it dawned on me that I wasn't Japanese. I appreciated it what I had learned but it wasn't really for me. It took me long time to just relax and be comfortable NOT KNOWING. Actually, I had to realize I never knew in the first place.

I believe that none of us KNOWS. The problem is that we pretend we do because it makes life a lot easier. But for me it destroyed the mystery and the wonder. I eventually found a path that works for me and I hope you will find yours too. BUT...and this is a big BUT...I don't think it will be in the places you will think to look. That will just lead you back to another institutionalized source of answers. They task is to find your own. Good luck.

They tell you TSCC is the ONLY TRUE church. Baaah. I found the Bible to be translated correctly without the help of ole Joe. As to the mysteries of the universe... I'm happy knowing what we know is out there, and finding out the rest later.

Welcome to RFM! I went through what you are going through--most of here did.

I still believe in God and Christ--but not the Joseph Smith interpretation. For example, I believe God loves us unconditionally. I don't believe that God once was a Mormon man, or that my bishop or stake president or Mitt Romney will become a God someday. Well, you know that there is a lot of bunk that the cult teaches. When you erase all those lies from your brain, you will find God. After that, it is truly up to you to accept Him, or not.

The Mormon cult does not own God! I feel sad that so many ex-Mormons lose God, when they leave Mormonism. When I walked out of a Mormon church for the last time, I said, "God is not here. He never was here." I firmly believe that Mormonism has nothing to do with God.

You still pray, because God is still in your heart. I think that there are as many versions of God as there are people. We all see and feel Him a little differently. There is no "one true church."

I have gone to many different Christian churches, and have been uplifted by the sermons about Christ and God. I still like The Bible. My children went to a Lutheran grade school, so they grew up knowing Christ from the Bible. Mormonism was always in conflict with those teachings. We love nature and science, and we feel very little conflict between science and religion. In fact, studying science will lead you to God. Please give Christianity a chance!

You really don't have to label yourself--that is a Mormon thing. Don't jump into another cult situation.

Mormonism claims credit for things that have nothing to do with it, such as your marriage, family, nice children, your whole life. I think you are a great person IN SPITE OF the Mormon church, not because of it. You would have been a great Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, or Atheist, too. Children turn out well because of their parents, education, neighborhood, physical health, relatives, etc. They don't need to be harassed by unqualified "authority" figures. They don't need to be weighed down with guilt, and endless busywork. For example, let them spend two more years in school, instead of on a pointless mission. My children were active, along with me and my husband, in their schools and community, sports, 4-H, Scouts, family outings, reunions, etc. We were all much happier and more cohesive after we left Mormonism. My children turned out great! Mormonism seems to separate children from their parents. Well, don't get me started on why I think Mormonism is NOT good for children.

Down the road, years after leaving, I can testify to you that if you stand by your integrity, your family will respect you more, and your children will develop the same integrity. You can give them the love that the Mormon church can never give them. You are a far more powerful example to them than any made-up fake religion could ever hope to be. Love and luck to you all. >^..^<

thank you everyone for your amazing support. I just woke up and there was huge volumes of support, thanks.

I like how everyone realizes that Mormonism tries to take credit for the good things in life. Or my wife's fear is that if the children leave they will be corrupted. I've seen more corrupted mormons than non-mormons. Yeah, I don't want my kids to feel guilty if they ever leave.

...where she'll see that Mormons don't have a monopoly on raising kids. Heck, even take her to a UU church (sometimes jokingly called Atheists with Children) which has a really good program for developing ethics and safe behavior in kids.

Mormonism has only been around a tiny amount of time, in the history of civilization. By comparison Egyptians believed in their gods for thousands of years. Ramsey was born 1300 years before christianity existed! You can see mummies in museums that date back long before christianity existed. When you see the bodies of these real people.. You have to wonder... What did they believe? Were they wrong?

What did the romans and greeks believe? These people lived and died believing in their gods. You can see their temples still out shining any mormon, crap temple.

Mormonism wont last very long, when held up against the great religions of world. It is a bizarre short lived tiny cult.

Belief in God is a personal matter...and the manner in which you worship him (or her) is also personal....and when some "church' establishes rules governing the way people worship....that's when it all goes to hell....

I'm in the same boat man ... It's been about 3 months of no SM. this has worked for me: go to "meetup" ... Type in an interest and pick up a new hobby. The void will be filled very quickly.

You don't have to believe anything. Take your time and explore different belief systems. Or not. You are free.

Susan

Believe what you want about anything.

Try on different ideas.

I eliminated a bunch of ideas that were "supposed" to guide me and found were not useful: god, Jesus, the Lord, religion in general, rituals, etc.

Become an observer.

Just enjoy what you like and eliminate what you don't like.

Nobody is going to check up on you and you don't have to report to anyone.

These are private beliefs and ideas and notions that you use as needed. You decide.

IF there is a god, it needs MORmON leaders to explain its purpose about like a toad needs a rectum transplant from a rhino.

Thanks for the posting guys.I like the question "when a doctor removes a cancer from the body does he ask what to replace it with"?

Love that reply!

"Supposed" indicates to me that you feel that what you believe should be dictated from the outside.

IMHO, you are "supposed" to evaluate the evidence, make up your own mind and believe what you believe based on the evidence you have.