The place I manage has 4 delivery vehicles, two of the them are trucks. Anyway, one of the delivery driver's started complaining to me that he had nothing to drive, so he asked if he could run errands with the one of the trucks and then bring it back. I said sure. Then he asked me to fill it up for him. I was a little irritated at him for that, but I took the truck to the gas station, filled it up anyway and sent him on his way.

A few hours ago he came back and dropped the keys off on my desk, no thank you or anything. Before I went home, I checked the truck and I discovered that the truck was empty and the fuel warning light was on. Now returning a vehicle empty when it was full is bad enough, but when I checked the miles on the odometer, he had only gone 40 miles. An F-350 utility truck has 42 gallons of fuel capacity, so that means the truck would need to be getting about 1 mpg to use all that gas in that short a distance. I reluctantly spent $160 to fill up the truck again and went home in it to see if something was wrong. After I went 40 miles, the tank still indicated full and I only could put in another $10 in fuel. I found I got 13 mpg. So, no doubt in my mind he stole the gas out of the truck.


Now, I know that I didn't catch him in the act, but I did make a note of the odometer when I lent him the truck, and I still have the receipt for the fuel I put in originally and four hours later. I also checked the truck out and nothing was wrong with it, so I doubt he could make a case against me that the truck was broken.

I want to fire the punk (I didn't like him in the first place), but want to make sure I am not crossing the line here because I don't like him. I've also never had to fire anyone before, so it's a new experience for me.

Thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2012 02:37AM by notsurewhattothink.

Imo you did well. I would continue to document when you ask him why it's on empty. Perhaps bring a recorder. There is no logical way he can fib his way out of it. Then fire him.

Call him on it and tell him about the miles you recorded. He will likely confess if he has any brains at all.

I plan to bring him into my office tomorrow (lol, I sound like a perverted bishop now... ) and ask him about it. The other delivery guys have already made it clear on more than one occasion that they'd be happy if he gets fired.

Unless someone siphoned it while he was in a store, it's pretty cut and dry.

In most states and situations, you can fire an at-will employee for any reason, or for no reason. If there's no employment contract or published company rules/procedures to follow for a termination, all you need to say is, "We need to let you go. Good luck."

Depends on what state ur in. If Idaho or Utah you can and should fire him for theft or not looking After company property. If he tries to get unemployment challenge it and you will win.

One more thing... does the truck have GPS? If so, can you make a log of where he went? Not that it's a big deal, but should it go to court, you'll have that additional info in favor of you.

I was once in a management situation where I fired an employee because he was incompetent. The replacement was dishonest. He was stealing from me but he was an excellent manager. Even with the theft he was making me money. I later called him out on his theft and gave him a warning and said if it continued he was fired. The theft stopped. I would have canned him immediately but he was making me money and I was not in the immediate position to replace him. What I did was scout a replacement while he ran things and when I had one found, I canned him.

Haha, he's the driver that everyone hates and doesn't get along with, but I've never had a reason to fire him until now. I know I might be able to just try and cut him loose for no reason, but I am not that kind of person. My father is an extremely disagreeable person, but I look at it as, that's the way he is.

Anyway, GPS, nope, it's a bare bones utility truck. Also I forgot to add that the truck has a locking gas cap, however the ignition key for the truck unlocks it so any one with the keys would have no problem opening the spout.

I understand the thought process that tells you not to be like your jacka$$ dad, but just because your dad would fire employees, that doesn't automatically mean that firing an employee is a bad thing or that it makes you the same as your disagreeable dad.

If you are doing the opposite of what your dad would do even when it's not a good choice for you or your company, your dad is still controlling you. Make the best choice regardless of what your dad would have done. Each time you do that, you loosen your dad's control of you.

This is an employee who took advantage of your kindness, appears to be a thief, and is not great for workplace morale. I would bring him in and ask him to explain the empty tank. Don't mention your test drive of the truck or your findings before he tells his tale.

Don't fall for a sob story. Manipulative types know how to work others' weaknesses and trying to be the opposite of your dad is a weakness. The old adage that a broken watch is still right twice-a-day holds true in your situation. Even a jacka$$ father might have gotten it right once in a while, even if his reasoning or methods were not something to which you aspire.

In the future, if an employee asks to borrow a truck or for any other favor, ask questions and lay out the terms of the agreement beforehand, e.g., employee is required to replace the gas they use and if they don't, the cost of refilling the tank will be deducted from their next check.

Being kind is a good thing. Being a doormat is not. :) As a mostly-recovered doormat who has an occasional relapse, I empathize.

Good luck and just think of this as an opportunity to shake off another mind-shackle that has not served you well.

Sounds like you would have just cause.

Fire the dude!

I don't know much about employment law, but my wife is an attorney. Her practice doesn't closely involve employment law, but the topic was covered in law school and on bar exams. She's passed CA and Utah bars.

Montana has eliminated "at will" employment, which means basically that after completion of a probationary period in Montana, an employer can only fire for just cause and is responsible for proving such to a reasonable degree. Other states have "at will" employment, which can be altered if contracts or unions are involved.

You want to be careful to document, as the employee may try to claim discrimination or retaliation as the reason for his having been fired. The employee in question seems to have gotten through life primarily on gall, so it wouldn't be surprising if he were to challenge his firing. Just document everything. This is one battle that would seem to be worth fighting even if it were to involve a court fight.

Sure, I'd fire him. I like to fire people.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

President Romney Wrote:
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> Sure, I'd fire him. I like to fire people.

It does sound like you have just cause.

If it were me, I'd call him into the office and explain the situation. I'd ask him if he's ever rented a car or known of anyone who has. Then I'd remind him that whenever you rent a vehicle it is given to you with a full tank and you are expected to either return it the same way or pay for the fuel. You lent him the truck with a full tank in good faith and expected it to be returned the same way. Instead it was returned with the tank bone dry. Then see what he has to say.

Get over yourself and fire him!

notsurewhattothink wrote:
"I know I might be able to just try and cut him loose for no reason, but I am not that kind of person."

Don't give him a reason unless you're legally obligated to. Once he has a reason, then he has grounds to fight the termination, and then you have to justify your action and prove your accusation. If you say it's for dishonesty (stealing gas), then he can fight it and make you prove it. If you can't prove it, then he could get a court to make you give him his job back. If you say it's because he cannot get along with the other drivers, be prepared to prove it to the point that it would convince a judge or hearing officer.

Unless you're LEGALLY obligated to do otherwise, just tell him you're letting him go and don't say why. You're creating unnecessary problems, headaches, and possible expensive litigation otherwise.

Just lay him off and never call him back. If he is smart he will get the hint and look for a new job.

Alberta has a similar system to Montana's described above.I was let go with a simple "I don't want you on my team anymore" and went after them three days later for a week of pay in lieu of termination notice, a record of employment that indicated I was laid of and a demand it being in my bank account yesterday as they already were late on paying out what was owed. I got all three and now am employed in a job that pays more than double so all worked out well. I think that stupid woman I worked for forgot I was permanent status by about four weeks) as she certainly did not provide just cause or any documentation substantiating her action...no problemo this was 23 July and I was quitting 15 Aug anyways, just sped up the process with a few more bennies including being able to collect unemployment insurance, first time in 35 years.

Fire him, and make sure you state it is for theft. I don't believe there is a state in the country where you can't fire an employee on the spot for theft.

If you wait too long though, you will weaken your case, and he can come back for unemployment, which will make you look like an idiot to your own bosses.

This employee asked YOU, the boss, if he could borrow a company vehicle to do personal errands.

YOU said yes.

Employee asked YOU to fill up the gas tank (yes, he has balls!) but YOU did it.

Was there any type of agreement--verbal or written about the expectations that you set for this employee when he took the truck for personal reasons? Did you talk about milage, use of fuel, destination, time of return, anything?

YOU as the manager let the employee do this without clear expectations of what the rules are. As dumb as it sounds, you did not tell him that he could not syphon off the gas tank. You just assumed that Goober-head would not do that.

Documentation is the only record that something happened. Be prepared if you fire him for the above issues to be brought out. Keep in mind that if he is able to collect unemployment (laying off versus firing) he will be slightly less likely to bring legal action (statisically speaking).

Please let us know what you do. I really want to know his response to your evidence. [Try to write down every comment he makes...he CAN be fired for belligerence, on the spot. I have fired dozens of people and it is never nice or pretty even when they are jerks.

He doesn't need an agreement. It is not reasonable for someone to assume that they can steal the gas out of a company vehicle, even if the boss filled it up for them.

There is a major bases of the law where it looks at things and says "A rational person would understand that this is not acceptable behavior." Of course I am not a lawyer, so I could be wrong.

It might cost some money now but will probably be cheaper than making a mistake and dealing with a lawsuit or unemployment claim later. This is not something you should handle without expert advice.

I am not a lawyer, but here are my thoughts on how I would handle such a situation. I'm a big believer in forgiveness, so I would confront the employee with the facts and see what happens. If the employee confesses, apologizes and offers to pay you for the fuel, I would forgive him and keep him on. You mentioned that the other employees do not like him, so a confession and apology are unlikely. I'm an optimist and would at least give him the opportunity.

If the employee denies any wrongdoing or makes silly excuses, I would make him an offer: either resign (and you will drop the matter) or you will go to the police. Theft of company property is a crime and the employee could be prosecuted and get a criminal record. Unless he's stupid, he'll quit and the matter will be over.

When terminating someone for cause, it is important to keep a good paper trail in case you need to justify your actions later in court. When you confront the employee, I would secretly record the conversation, if you can legally do so in your jurisdiction. If it's not legal, then have another company official there as a witness. After the meeting, separately write down your notes of the meeting, sign and date them and keep them somewhere safe.

Good luck with this unpleasant task.

CZ

Alright, morning time drama. Here's the update to how the morning "meeting" went. Thought you'd all like to know, and thanks for everyone's suggestions here. I admit that I am short fused at times, so this helped me keep a level head throughout my thought process.

So, I called him in and asked "Hey xxxxx, how come you didn't tell me the truck was empty?"

He then started complaining about how the truck gets such bad gas mileage and that he even had to buy some more gas just to make it back. I replied saying: "Don't be stupid, this is a company truck. I noted the mileage when you left, you went 40 miles."

Then he replied something to the effect of: "Hey come on, I told you it used a lot of gas. Maybe you should get it checked out maybe there's something wrong with it."

I answered: "I did, and there's nothing wrong with the truck."

Then he went back saying: "You know, big V8 trucks use a lot of gas."

Then I unloaded my prepared speech I had for him which said in a nutshell that the truck gets a proven 13 mpg and that even if for some reason the odometer broke and then started working again for me, he'd have to have driven over 500 miles to have drained the whole tank. Since he had the truck for 2 hours, that means that he'd have to have driven the truck at 250 mph (obviously impossible) for 2 hours straight to which he'd be fired for abuse of company property, or he was the perpetrator or instigator of letting someone steal the gas out of the truck. Since he had the only key and the locking gas cap hadn't been broken, I told him that the latter was the only logical explanation, considering the truck is only 6 months old and has been thoroughly checked out by a certified mechanic (I didn't mention my previous certification nor did I mention I was the one who inspected it).

Then I said: "Look, I haven't told anyone about this because I wanted to talk to you first. I know you're strapped for cash, but you can't. If you'll just pay me back the $165 it took to fill up the truck, you can keep your job."

To my surprise, he was indignant and mad that I was trying to make him pay for the gas. He replied "Come on, you lend me your truck and expect me to pay you because it uses a lot of gas? I'm out of here if you treat me like that."

So I answered: "Alright then, you're fired."

His eyes went huge and he went silent. I told him to leave. He then got up and left without saying anything.

Already I got a call with him asking if he could come back and that he was sorry. I told him "No, you had your chance and you blew it.". I think he was trying to emotionally bully me originally, so my answer came to him as a shock.



It's hard emotionally to be honest, but I have to keep a level head about things. He wasn't a great worker, and he never confessed until after I fired him. However, the other drivers and workers are very happy he's gone and they've already determined to make today a pizza party, lol.



Anyway, that's what happened. Thanks for the help and advice, it really did help me with this meeting. I was sort of dreading it but it wasn't too bad

EDIT: I also don't think he's seeking any kind of legal action, and he is just 22 I think. Maybe 23. He knows he screwed up and knows he has no case and seemed to concede the fact when he called me back begging for his job.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2012 11:58AM by notsurewhattothink.

Well handled!

Theft is immediate grounds for firing. Unless he can come up with a reasonable excuse, then this is, indeed, theft.

If he has acted dishonestly you don't want this guy around. (And neither do his coworkers, by your report.)

Draw up the facts on paper. Meet with him. Ask him to explain what happened. If he doesn't have a plausible explanation that restores your confidence in him, tell him that his reply is unacceptable. Fire him.

A dishonest driver is in a position to make any amount of trouble for your company! If you give him more chances he will take advantage to do more dishonest things, after all, he knows you are looking askance at him, what does he have to lose? Just that you might fire him. He has probably been fired before and expects to get fired again, it's all routine for him. It's like getting mugged. The mugger knows what he is doing, he is in his element. The use of force, a bit of a scuffle, so what? You, the victim, are an amateur at getting mugged. You are taken a aback, you are at a huge disadvantage. So it's like that. He is a slimy guy and you are just a normal, decent person. It is not easy to decide to fire someone, it is stressful and awkward.

Having a manipulative employee is the very devil! Luck that you have a documented incident on which to base a dismissal. The other employees should not have to work with the guy either. If you give him a slap on the wrist they may wonder how much they can count on you to do your (supervisory) job.

I am not a lawyer, but I know a lot about employment law and human resources protocol (at least in 3 states, so YMMV when it comes to state law). If you live in an at-will/right to work state, you can fire anyone for any reason at any time. Where this will come back and bit you in the rear is with unemployment, and if you don't have a valid reason to dispute an unemployment claim, your premiums will go up. Theft is a valid reason for an unemployment claim to be refused. It is also a valid reason for immediate termination even if you don't live in an at-will state.

Here are some tips - Do you have an employee handbook that addresses conduct and discipline measures? Most of the time, theft results in immediate termination, as opposed to being late or poor performance, and usually there's a three step process there (verbal warning, written, termination). If you do have an employee handbook, check and see what it says about theft so you can follow the protocol laid out by the company. If you do not have one, go by the DoL guidelines, and by them, theft is typically grounds for immediate termination without unemployment benefits.

WARNING - Here's the thing, you HAVE to address this one way or another. However you address this has to match what you've done in the past. If you've let someone off with a warning in the past, but fire this guy, he will have a good case for unemployment by claiming that the rules are not applied equally across the board (I have seen unemployment cases won for this reason, when the theft was pretty bad. The employee actually sued for wrongful termination based on this, and the company was forced to give her her job back, she got the unemployment for time out of work while this was being disputed, AND she was awarded damages. AND SHE WAS THE THIEF!). If you have never dealt with this before, and you only give the guy a talking to (or even if you ignore it), you are giving every other employee a chance to do this as well, with the knowledge that if they get fired the first time, they can claim wrongful termination.

This is why it is SO IMPORTANT for employers to take action and follow through when people go against the employee handbook or, in it's absence, the understood reasonable rules of conduct on the job. You have all the proof you need. You have tested the MPG, you have dated receipts, you can even get an expert testify about the truck's MPG. You noted the odometer before it was borrowed and when it was returned. The only other thing you could have done is take pictures. But that would be ridiculous, logging it is sufficient, especially given the receipts. Do something, or this will come back and bite you in the rear.

Variable to be prepared for, but for which I have no advice, if the employee admits it and offers to refund the money for the tank of gas. Oh wait, I do have advice. I'd still fire him. Theft is theft.

Oh, one more thing, start a mandatory odometer log process, where the tank level and starting mileage and tank level and mileage upon return is noted in the logbook. Make this process mandatory for any time a company vehicle is taken out by an employee, either for work business or if you're doing them a favor by letting them run errands. This might deter employees from doing this in the future. While firing one guy might be deterrent enough, it could also give people ideas. They might not be as brazen as this guy to drain the whole tank, but they might siphon enough so that it's not completely noticeable. A log is the only way to eliminate that risk, too.

It would be a good idea to put GPS trackers on all of the company vehicles, in addition to using paper logs. A tracker is a back up in case an employee "forgets" to fill out the paper log and will give you additional details, including if the driver is speeding or making unauthorized side trips.

GPS trackers are not very expensive these days, especially compared to the cost of a vehicle and the potential liability that an employee can expose you to. A Google search will find you many options with a wide array of features and prices. There is certainly something out there that will fit your business's needs and budget.

CZ