The HuffPost has reprinted an article asking questions about how the Mittster's the most important 'character shaping' factor in his life might affect his handling of the presidency, if elected.

The article is interesting, but in it they state that he was an 'ordained minister'. Is 'ordination' a mormon rite? Do they use that term?

Yes, Bishops are ordained. Once you are ordained a Bishop you remain a Bishop the rest of your life, even when you are finished with your service. My father was the Bishop of our ward when I was a teenager and many former members of his ward still greet him today as "Bishop [lastname]."

What is the ordination process like?

What is the ordination process like?


Stake President: "We want you to be the bishop of your ward. Do you want the job?"

Bishop Designee: "Sure."

That's it. It's done. No formal training or experience necessary. The Stake President and his counselors will put their hands on his head and say some magic words, which include that he is now "ordained" to the office of bishop. Afterwards, everybody gets teary-eyed and shake each others' hands and go their merry way.

Specifically, for Romney to refer to himself as a "pastor" after going through such a 'selection' process is hilarious.

That's what I figured. I was wondering what nwguy's definition of ordination was, if he thought they were ordained. Just being called bishop so-and-so for life isn't ordination.

I suppose it's a sign of respect. Even long after their terms of service have ended (I believe it's about 5 years), some people continue to address former bishops and stake presidents as "Bishop Smith" and "President Jones" although others will revert back to the former way of addressing them as "Brother Smith" or "Brother Jones."

Right, that makes sense, it's just not a proof/example of ordination.

When a nominee for bishop is selected by the stake president, it has to be approved by "area authorities" and Salt Lake City. Then the bishop is called and ordained by the stake president.

Plus a blessing by 2 or 3 other leaders who place their hands on the head of the person (in this case, Mitt) and say an ordination prayer/blessing - after he's accepted the job.

every Mormon male over the age of 12 is ordained. I think the article misses the point that all LDS leaders come from the general membership, they have no training, no pay, they serve on their own time except the GA's, and even they have no special training.

So, this is like other words that Mormon's co-opt, water-down, and/or given completely new meanings to?

The office of Bishop is an ordained office that is part of the Aaronic Priesthood. Before a person is ordained to that office,

1. his name is submitted by the SP to SLC and vetted and approved in SLC. This usually takes about 2 months
2. after SLC approval, the SP presents his name to the ward in sac meeting for voting (almost always 100%, but not necessarily)
3. after the voting (aka sustaining), then the sp ordains the individual as a Bishop, and also as a High Priest if the person has not been ordained a high priest previously.

The modern function of the Bishop in today's church is two-fold.

1. The bishop is the President of the Aaronic Priesthood in the ward. That is why the bishop is the president of the Priest's Quorum, and meets with the Priests during the priesthood hour of the three hour sunday block.

2. The bishop is also the presiding High Priest of the ward even though there is also a High Priest Group Leader

Anything that the bishop does is either due to his being the head of the ward's Aaronic Priesthood, or being the presiding high priest of the ward.

Soooooooooo, after that long-winded dissertation, yes the Bishop is an ordained position. The saying "once a bishop, always a bishop" is kind of misleading.....the same is true "once a deacon, always a deacon". Why??? They are ordained positions that you never lose while still an official member of the Morg.

Which makes it all clear as mud, but there it is. By the way, try finding any of this in the D&C.....ha.

As for training, any and all training comes in meetings with the SP and from reading the Handbook. Most bishops nowadays have previously been either a bishops counselor, been on the high council, or in rare cases have been a counselor to the SP. I say "most", as there are exceptions when the new bishop has had very little "management" experience.

That's the way I learned it, too. Although I was taught there was one additional component.

The candidate was ordained to the priesthood office of bishop and set apart as the bishop of the so and so ward. This is why bishops say they are "bishops for life" even if they are not currently serving as a bishop. I believe that if they are called to be bishop a second time they are not reordained (no need) just set apart to serve in the new calling.

I believe the same is true for apostles. A candidate is ordained to the office of apostle and then set apart as a member of the quorum of the 12 (at least in most cases--note Alvin R. Dyer was ordained an apostle by David O. McKay but never made it into the twelve).

Thanks for that review "Skeptic" -- I think a lot of LDS don't know how it really works.

They are revered like a "Priest," for instance.

Actually, Romney is a High Priest in the Mormon cult.

I'm not the first one to point out that Mitt should not even be in the presidential race because he already swore allegiance to Mormonism - which is a clear violation of the separation of church and state.

If Twitt wants to be POTUS he needs to quit his cult.

Not to hijack the thread, but that would create an interesting conundrum. If he lost this election, and left the church and became a bigwig in a mainstream christian church, ran again for president as the Republican candidate, who would the mormons vote for?

He is also Bishop, he holds both titles. Very confusing organization the church is since the office of bishop is also an aaronic priestood office which seems to be a demotion in actual priesthood to me.....very confusing. JS couldn't possibly have made this all up. ;)

In my youth, bishops had to go all the way to SLC in order to be actually ordained to a new office of the priesthood, bishop. And it took an apostle to do it. But bishops might spend their whole adulthoods in the calling. As bishops burnt out more and more and the church seemed to be growing in the 70s, they relaxed the requirements, and now they ace called locally for like 3 to 5 years. It is no longer the office it used to be.

(just re-acting, mind you)

After Mittens looses (Final Tally of the electors), he'd going to be offered the next GA 'calling', for which he will be set apart by Tom, or Boyd, or by.... someone.

Bishop is an office in the Aaronic priesthood. Yes, you are a Bishop forever. Stake president is not, so Bishop sticks with the name, but President does not.

First a man must have the Melchizedek Priesthood conferred on him AND !!!ORDAINED!! to the office of a High Priest .

Then he is "SET APART" in the office of **BISHOP** over the Jurisdiction of a particular WARD.

If he moves or gets released --He is only released over the jurisidiction of that original particular ward.

If he is called again he only needs to be *Set Apart* as a Bishop over the **NEW WARD JURISDICTION**

JB

The words "priest", "minister" or "pastor" as well as revelation, chosen, trained, called or set apart are flubber in a Mormon's mouth.

I don't think making up your own definitions aside from the original or colloquial ones, counts much with people who do know what they mean.

I can be "ordained" online for 40 bucks. I can be "called" to a "ministry" online, or in some storefront, by people who never met me. I can do the same in a fancy, fake gilded palace with people all wearing white, and it means nothing if the people "ordaining" me have no training and are no more worthy of the name than me.

I can be legally registered a clergy person in any state in the union without studying word one of the Bible, or any holy book, but that makes me neither a true minister or worthy of that name.

I don't think an ordination by a fulltime insurance salesman who does his clergy work part time on the side, and who himself has never been trained except by what he reads out of some handbook written by other untrained people just like him, is much evidence of anything at all.

Not a believer in any religion. And I have no faith whatsoever in people who run a religion which spends more billions on a mall than they have in their 100+ years of existence on poor people, or making the world a better place. Which spends less per year on actual charity than it spends on itself, and demands that its own people tithe to it, and then won't bow to those same people when they demand to know where the money goes.

If those running the church are the same people making the decisions on who gets to be a Bishop, I've got to tell you am I not very inclined to believe they are capable of making good, let alone rational or inspired, choices.

?

is it more than a matter of semantics that people in LDS callings are 'Set Apart' in order to be able to function in those positions?

Is there ANY practical difference?

I've always wondered, but I always thought that 'Ordained' was more of a non-LDS term - usage.

I'm ordained too! I'm a Deacon. I had to take a class that lasted 4 or 6 Sundays. I had to be approved by the Session, which is a panel of Elders. Then I had to be approved by the congregation. The ordination ceremony took place in front of the church with the pastor and all the Elders laying on hands.

We have two young pastors-elect who will be ordained later this month. The ceremony is joy filled, almost like a wedding. Several church leaders give their "testimony" as to why they deserve to be ordained. They get to put on their robes for the first time. The congregation is dressed up as for a wedding. I can't wait!

All mormon p'hood is lay - no requirement to have extensive training or experience.

The definition of "ordained" is vastly different for mainstream religions. To become ordained in the Episcopal church requires a degree or other church-approved formal education, years of service, and extensive vetting.

In rereading this thread, I think that I detect some cunfusion on the terms "ordain", "set apart", and "confer". In earlier days of the charge, many of the terms were used interchangeably. A more recent FP (Heber Grant, maybe? I think that Quinn has it in one of his books) formalized everything.

First, a man has the Aaronic or Melchezedek Priesthood conferred on him.

Second, a man is ordained to an office in that priesthood
So, in the Aaronic Priesthood, the person is ordained to the office of Deacon, Teacher, Pries, or Bishop.
In the Melchezedek, the person is ordained to the office of Elder, High Priest, Patriarch, Seventy, or Apostle.

Third, a person is set apart to a specific calling, such as sunday school teacher, elder's quorum president, counselor in the bishopric, etc.

Oddly enough, as the President of the Church is (to date) always the Senior Apostle, the President is set apart as the president, not ordained as such.

Some confusion comes in when we read of the terminology used in earlier days, especially when someone was ordained to an office without the priesthood being conferred.

Again, sorry if this muddies up the water.