Hi, I was raised a mormon, was a letter of the law mormon, did the whole two years mission thing and all that jazz. I am studying physics right now at a non-mormon university. After my mission I went to church for a while and then stopped.My doubts have been growing slightly over the years but recently had the 'pull the rug from underneath me' moment. The whole pray to know doctrine would prove the church is true but its a sketchy. How can you know truth from an emotional subjective experience? Especially when all other churches argue the same point. It doesnt seem consistent or repeatable. I am logically an exmormon but still emotionally mormon. Its liberating and hard to come to terms with at the same time, I wanted to believe its true, the afterlife, the doing good to your fellowman, the promised blessings. Its hard for me to accept how all my friends, family, and good mormon people could be so wrong (and they really believe this stuff). Now I'm just trying to make sense of all this. Also I do have two questions that I couldn't explain, how could joseph smith could know about the civil war and word of wisdom?

civil war: that'd be like me, today, issuing a 'prophetic statement' that there will be unrest/war soon in the middle east

just because the civil war hadn't started yet didn't mean it wasn't obvious that something was going to happen...


word of wisdom: google "temperance movement" - joe never had an original idea... ever

Of the parts of your list, doing good for your fellow man is one of the things that you can do during this lifetime. You may have to give up your celestial dessert, but now you have the chance to be a human being who helps other beings.

And doing so not because you not because some external force told you it was a good thing to do. You have a chance to help your fellow man and to be helped by him precisely because you are his fellow man.

See below links:

http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech14.htm#424

http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech18.htm

The "prophecy" on the Civil War is one of the weakest arguments mormons have on JS foretelling the future. Tensions between Northern and Southern States had been boiling for decades before the Civil War actually broke out. The Southern States had been threatening secession as early as 1820. The Missouri Compromise of 1820 was agreed to in part to quell these tensions. Later compromises, such as the compromises of 1850 and the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854 were also all designed to quell tensions between the states.

But back to Smith, the supposed "prophecy" was issued in late 1832, twelve years after the Missouri Compromise. Tensions were high between the states during this entire time. It was well documented in all the newspapers at the time including the most prominent newspapers in the area where Smith was living at the time. The articles even talked about South Carolina as being a lead instigator of these tensions. Politicians and the general public in South Carolina for decades before the Civil War were some of the most vocal and outspoken defenders of the slave system. As an aside here, but I think a related aside, in 1854 Senator Preston Brooks of - you guessed it South Carolina - beat Senator Charles Sumner of Massachusetts with a cane nearly to death on the floor of the U.S. Senate in retaliation for a speech Sumner gave over atrocities that were taking place in Kansas that he rightly blamed on pro-slavery factions in that territory (as well as blaming several senators for being "complacent" in said atrocities).

In the end Smith wasn't stretching very far at all in this "prophecy". Anybody in 1832 who was paying attention to current events could easily have guessed that a war was coming and it wasn't that difficult to see South Carolina as the state that would trigger the conflict. In fact many other people of the time made similar statements. Smith was just echoing stuff he had read and heard from others around him - something he made a habit of.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2012 10:45PM by shadowspade.

Thanks Ex-Cult member, I knew there had to be a better write up of the civil war prophecy than I could find in my quick search or off the top of my head. That's an excellent article that even included some things I had forgotten about. When you know the facts, all of Smiths "prophecies" lose their luster pretty fast.

Don't forget the Nullification Crisis in 1832 when South Carolina declared tariffs passed under Andrew Jackson to be unconstitutional and therefore didn't have to be followed. South Carolina stated that a state had the right to nullify federal laws and had the right to secede from the Union.

It wasn't a stretch at all to say the fighting would start because of South Carolina, just like in the 1770s it wouldn't have been a stretch to say the colonists and British troops would begin fighting in Boston.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2012 11:25PM by mistydiamond.

That was what I had forgotten about that ex-cult put up in the link. Completely spaced on that one.

OK those are both easy ones:

The ideas on the word of wisdom were common religious notions of the day.

Nearly everything in the word of wisdom has been proven false. Alcohol in moderation is very healthy and significantly reduces the risk of heart disease. Actually the word of wisdom clearly states that beer and wine are allowed.

The initial word of wisdom said "not by commandment" so if it is not by commandment why is is required to enter the temple? The original word of wisdom is almost nothing like what is enforced in the church today. Why would that be?

The whole "hot drinks" thing is a huge mess. The church has recently officially stated that caffeine is not a problem. Hot chocolate is OK, energy drinks are OK, decaffeinated coffee is OK. Iced green tea (which has way less caffeine than Mountain Dew) is not OK. It's completely nonsensical.

Much of the word of wisdom is completely ignored. For example only eating meat in the winter.

Things like wheat is for the belly - oats are for horses is ridiculous. Oats are way more healthy - what about celiac?

Science shows that different people have different rhythms some of us are night people and some are morning people.

If it was inspired it would have taught against obesity and lack of exercise. Those are HUGE health issues that aren't even addressed. In fact even the prophet is significantly overweight.

About the only thing he got right was tobacco. The only reason he included tobacco is it was pissing Emma off. Again that was a common religious notion of the day.

http://www.mormonthink.com/wow.htm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2012 11:00PM by bc.

The civil war prophecy was actually a pretty big missed prophecy when you look at the details.

There was considerable angst between the north and the south for many years before the civil war started. The dividing line was pretty clear. Many contemporaries of Joseph Smith were anticipating the civil war.

Joseph Smith predicted it would start a world war - it didn't.

http://www.mrm.org/civil-war
http://www.tektonics.org/gk/josproph.html

By the way checkout my new website - mormonprobe.com - it gives you a great launching pad to continue your research. Check out the "spiritual testimony" links on the home page for a confirmation of what you are saying - I especially love the which religion did this testimony come from? quiz...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2012 10:59PM by bc.

What you say about believers:

"and [how] good mormon people could be so wrong (and they really believe this stuff)."

It tells you about the capacity of the human mind to erect religious and philosophical systems. And the belief is passed on to the next generation, no problem. There are good people all over the world with the widest differing beliefs imaginable, all very convinced and sincere.

And you are right, feelings are not much guide to external reality.

Still, you are disappointed. Understandable. Take it slow.

You have some more reading and studying to do.
You're on the right track. There ARE answers to your questions.

Just because the church has hidden and not talked about certain things does not mean they didn't happen. Also, just because they did mention something, and even make rules around it, doesn't mean they are telling the truth.

They have a bad habit of making partial mention, and then going off on their own tangent.

The number one reason I first left the church was the lies that I discovered. I kept reading and studying. I was amazed to find that there isn't any aspect of the church that doesn't involve lying and deception. From the top down.

I read mormonthink from beginning to end. I've read approx. 9 books. I've read many many things online, including the early books and writings of church leaders. Journal of discourses, the original BoM.

I was born in the church 5th generation. I've been through all of the ordinances. Including a nightmare temple marriage. In the end, the promises that this is the way to happiness is a lie. From beginning to end, this church is more the church of lies. There is very little truth. If you find any, they plagiarized it from another source.

I hope you find out everything you need to know about the truth before you go too much further in life. Knowing the truth will save you a lot of grief. I didn't know the real deal until I was almost 60. The first thing I did was talk to my 20 something kids about what I'd found. I was lucky, my husband and children left with me.

Thanks for the answers, the tobacco one was what I was really curious about. Also you showed me how much research I didn't do @_@, the civil war one I just realized I could have looked up the history of civil war on wikipedia.

As far as the "how can so many people be wrong" is the Argumentum ad populum Fallacy which makes sense logically. Its just hard to separate from it emotionally and watch all the people I grew up around still into it, and just remembering the good experiences we had

I never actually knew the church was true I just hoped really hard it was true until my rational brain woke me up to reality. (its still like im in a daze or in a dream)

My brain has been unconverted but my heart is still in denial

All my favorite links are on my homepage of MormonProbe.com but for easy reference here's some that come to mind for what you are saying:

Top 10 Mormon Problems Explained
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ac_fLUHiBw

Why Smart People Believe Weird Things
http://www.michaelshermer.com/weird-things/excerpt/

Mormon Apologetics - A Guide for the Perplexed
http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon441.htm

How Can We Find Truth?
http://www.theamateurthinker.com/2011/02/how-can-we-find-truth-part-4/

And this one will help your heart turn the corner - at least it did me - it pissed me off what Joseph Smith did to these families:

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/
http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/05-ZinaHuntingtonJacobs.htm
http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/23-LucyWalker.htm
http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/26-HelenMarKimball.htm
http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/2021-EmilyandElizaPartridge.htm

Give yourself time to work through the feelings. It's a process. It takes time. Be gentle with yourself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2012 11:28PM by bc.

Have you been to Mormonthink.com?

My ten year old once said to me (while we were living in Utah),
"Mom, why do you always have to be different. Most of the world is Mormon."

You get where I am going with this.

You have been living in a bubble where most if not all of your cohort believed a completely false and illogical world view. But you felt comfortable believing it because not only did most of the people around you also believe in the Flat Earth, but they were smart! Smarter than you--and good! Better than you! How could they all be wrong? And more insidious, how dare you assume your own ideas could be superior to Brother XXX?

Here's some "obvious" truths: You were created with a conscience of your own, right? Why would you need one if you weren't to rely on this internal compass? If God meant you to be part of a collective, you wouldn't need it--you would only need eyes and ears to read and here what the overlords told you.

God doesn't make organs and abilities which are not meant to be used. Women have the same amount of brains as men. They are also designed to take charge of their own lives. If they were only meant for reproduction and obedience, their brains would be much smaller.

No, human beings are clearly designed to be individuals FIRST and part of a tribe SECOND. Not part of a church FIRST and part of a family SECOND. The real testament to the anti-nature element in Mormon social structure is the constant repetition required to hold back the natural instinct to place the family first. The Mormon church has to continually refresh and renew the conditioning in order to keep draining the family of resources it badly needs.

Doubt that? Mormons are told to pay tithing first even if they will lose their house and their children will do without food or heat. How does that sound to you?

Sounds like a cult to me.

Anagrammy

Please Wikipedia

Wives of joseph Smith
Book of abraham
Kinderhook plates
Origins of the book of mormon
The first vision
Archaeology of the book of mormon
Masons and mormon temple
Joseph Smith
Three witnesses

That will be more than enough proof that you have been bamboozled.

I wrote a reply post with examples of my life experiences and how, after 60 years I came to the conclusions I have about mormonism.

This site has some words you are not allowed to use. I couldn't figure out what they were.

Long story short, I didn't arrive at my conclusions lightly. Neither did my husband and adult children.

I've had too many life experiences that have proven to me that mormonism isn't what it claims to be. In the end, their promises are hollow. The only ones who benefit by enduring to the end, are the very top dogs.

Read, study, and you will find the real story. It's not all pretty like the church would like you to believe. There's a ton of deception going on.

You are still victim to many Mormon lies! You will get the truth, eventually.

For example, you said that the Mormons believe in doing good to your fellow man. Mormons don't own this concept! Mormons teach it, but they don't practice it. Christians practice it, and they believe in the afterlife, and in blessings from God. Christians believe in unconditional love, and Mormons don't. Christians believe that the Atonement saves all of us (and not just worthy Mormons). You are free to believe whatever you want!

You are upset that so many people are fooled by the Mormon church. Not that many people! LDS, Inc. lies about its membership numbers. Less than .01% of the world's population are members of the Mormon cult. It is NOT the "fastest growing church." The Mormon church seems huge and powerful only to those of us who live in Utah.

All of this will become clear to you, I promise! And, not in the next life, but in the next few weeks. The outcome is very positive--freedom and joy and love are the result. All the best to you!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2012 04:43AM by forestpal.

Many people believe in an afterlife, not just Mormons. The pagan Romans believed it, the ancient Norsemen believed it, and today most Christians believe that they will be reunited with their families and other loved ones in an afterlife. Just because you give up Mormonism doesn't mean that you have to give up certain beliefs that are widely shared by humankind.

The difference is that you get to think, read, explore, and make up your own mind about things, instead of being told what to believe by people who are no more expert than you are.