I won't go into politics, but I did want to mention the incredible transformation that the LDS church has done in the past few years. I am Hispanic, grew up with all the you are from lehi crap, lama note generation, chose, rose in the desert, blah

As things about illegal immigrants went from disagreement as to what to do to suddenly tying crime and disease to races...and suddenly Utah became anti-Hispanic overnight. I began to get dirty looks in my Lilly white neighborhood grocery store, I heard comments yelled out at public events, etc

I attended the Spanish branch because I felt like those people were so great and humble and genuine. Tis gave me the opportunity to see a hideous change in the church.

A guy who had been a recent convert was called into see the BP. he was shaken down not only for tithing, but for back tithing, he has been a member 6 weeks. It's guy made less than 400 a month and was sending 300 back home to his wife and kids in El Salvador. He lived with 10-15 other guys in a basement apartment. He paid up. About 20 months later he was laid off. He came to ask me what he should do. I told him that this was the reason people paid tithing and that he should go see the BP. The BP told him that he was instructed not to give aid to those who were ebreaking the law by being here illegally, since this would make the church complicit. It's is the time about 2 years ago that bills were being introduced saying that if you gave an illegal a ride or hired them you could go to jail. Well this guy was devastated, his money was good enough but he was trash when it came time to get some food for 2 weeks. I told him to go to the English ward, after testing him like trash, they helped him.

A missionary, her since he was 2 years old served in Nebraska, the church keeps the illegal boys stateside so they don't have to worry about visas and re-entry. Our branch was so excited to go get him from the airport. The parents were told that the church could not be caught transporting an illegal. They had to drive to nebraska to come get him. No one in the branch could talk to them about helping pay for gas or using a car. It had to be discussed off property. O this boy was great to have on a mission, but he was filthy trash afterwards.
I have a hundred more stories. Bt I wanted to share the incredible turn the church has made against Hispanics. Refusing to sign a documents that said lets at least be civil. Hispanics don't forget, no matter how much spray tan people wear. It cost their guy the election and for the foreseeable future, many converts.

You know, this reminds me of something I saw from about 5 years back when I visited a ward (in a wealthy, mostly white area). There was a very distraught woman in the hallway, talking loudly to other members about something to do with money and her needing more help. At one point she was talking to the bishop and was getting extremely upset. She didn't seem angry at first, just really anxious and upset, and then the bishop seemed to be telling her "no" and she got more and more agitated to the point of anger. I remember her saying something to the effect of being entitled to more help than what she had gotten. She was so upset that she was crying...

At the time, my tbm in laws explained it away as though she were trying to scam the church for aid money that she didn't need. But now that I know more about how LD$ churches operate, I have to wonder if she was one of those members who had paid in and gotten next to nothing in return.

She was the only Hispanic I saw in that whole ward that day too...

I was in shock to see that there was a policy given to the Spanish branch that did not apply in the English branch. The ironic thing? This poor guy was laid off because the company that do the lawns for the chapel in our areas was getting comments that too many "Mexicans" were taking care of the chapel yards. Yep, he was indirectly a church employee.

I'm betting that the business was Mormon owned and that the employees were told them must be members to get hired?

I think illegal immigration is a tough issue for the church. On the one hand, the church endlessly harps on being honest in your dealings, and people breaking the law can hardly claim honesty. On the other hand the number of hispanic members is a growing demographic for the church and alienating them is not what they want to do. While the discomfort or dislike for hispanics from the membership you describe is plain racism, it would be hippocritical of the church to turn a blind eye to people breaking the law so its a complex problem they face. Personnaly I think the church would be best served by encouraging and assisting illegal aliens with attaining legal status and holding them accountable until they can achieve that status by not giving temple recommends or callings. At the same time they need to use their ample resources to lobby for some common sense and compassionate immigration reform in America.

As for the tithing thing, they pretty well f*cked us all on that deal so I think we can all gripe about that one to some extent.

Hypocritical to turn a blind eye? Do you think the church has been proactive about keeping the immigration laws? Id so, you are badly under-informed.

Not only in outer stakes in the mission field, such as in Hawaii or Texas, but also in the center stakes of Zion in Utah County, for many decades the LDS church has been welcoming to illegal immigrants. No awkward questions are asked, membership privileges are not restricted in any way, there is no counseling advising immigrants to return to their home countries. Church leaders do not dob them in to INS, and they help where they can with employment, services and assistance in remaining in USA.

BYUH has a long and well-earned reputation as an immigration machine, welcoming foreign students who most often break their student visas and disappear to the mainland for work.

LDS Corp does whatever it can to increase its revenue stream. The main method used is recruitment of new subjects, and then demanding a minimum of 10% of their gross income. Welcoming illegal aliens is one method used to increase the number of subjects and income (while at the same time pretending that they are being compassionate).

Since they are pretending to be a church (with moral standards) LDS Corp is being hypocritical in that it purports to teach honesty and following the laws of the countries they operate in ("...obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."), while supporting illegal activity.

LDS Corp has long-term financial goals. While many illegal alien subjects are not likely to be large contributors of 'church' funds initially, LDS Corp knows that they can indoctrinate their children into their scheme, and this will brighten their financial future.

It's all about the money.

I know for a fact that an illegal immigrant was baptised into my home ward and was illegally claiming benefits. This is of course breaking the law and if found out, would likely result in his deportation or other punishment.

When I raised this issue in a bishopric meeting, I was told in no uncertain terms by the ward mission leader (former stake pres and currently councillor to the Mission Pres) that the Mission President had personally given his blessing for the baptism to take place and that one's status in a country isn't part of the baptism interview.

So, we'll potentially hold off a baptism if someone has had a cup of coffee, but turn a blind eye if they break the law.

I'm at a loss as to why immigration status is even a concern of the church (other than for missionaries.) Public schools are not allowed to ask about it at all, and we educate illegals right alongside the others. So why is the church asking about it? The church is not an employer (for most members) and does not need to check I.D.s.

I agree that it is extrememly hypocritical to take the tithing money from illegal immigrants and then deny them the same level of aid that the church would give to legal residents.

As for missionaries, if the church provides transportation to get them to their assigned location, then the church should likewise transport them back home.

Immigration must be a really though issue for the church. As they themselves had to immigrate to utah where there where no american laws to break, as it was mexican territory at the time. Many families, like romney's, had to move further south to mexico later on in order to continue living their poligamy lifestyle.

"A guy who had been a recent convert was called into see the BP. he was shaken down not only for tithing, but for back tithing, he has been a member 6 weeks. It's guy made less than 400 a month and was sending 300 back home to his wife and kids in El Salvador. He lived with 10-15 other guys in a basement apartment. He paid up. About 20 months later he was laid off. He came to ask me what he should do. I told him that this was the reason people paid tithing and that he should go see the BP. The BP told him that he was instructed not to give aid to those who were ebreaking the law by being here illegally, since this would make the church complicit. It's is the time about 2 years ago that bills were being introduced saying that if you gave an illegal a ride or hired them you could go to jail. Well this guy was devastated, his money was good enough but he was trash when it came time to get some food for 2 weeks. I told him to go to the English ward, after testing him like trash, they helped him."

That's deplorable....

I am in favor of limiting and deciding who can be admitted to this country...but STILL...to demand money from and shakedown an immigrant who is supporting a family back home to only THEN hide behind "the Law", deserves to burn in hell.


Certainly not in the realm of WWJD..

It does not matter, at all, what a person's legal status is if you are only making decisions based on race. This is my point, I am an American citizen, I get looks at church, I get comments, this has turned, as I mentioned in the OP from a legal issue to a racial one. The church is segregating some people and asking them questions based on the color of their skin. We can argue immigrant rights all day long, but I am talking about human right here. Why can't people, specially in Utah distinguish between someone being Hispanic and someone being here illegally, no matter where they came from? Jesus folks!

When we lived in Utah a wasichu yelled at my wife to go back to Mexico. She asked me "What will they do, deport me to Pine Ridge? I am from Rosebud".

http://media.photobucket.com/image/%2522go%20back%20to%20africa%2522%20%2522go%20back%20to%20mexico%2522/NCAAFBALLROX2/race.jpg

What!? The church is an intolerant and bigoted organization? That's not true. I mean I can't think of a single group of anything that the church doesn't fully accept. Except maybe hispanics (but your money is always good). And maybe the negro race (unless you're about 18 years old and really good at basketball or football)
Maybe Women (but if you're attractive we can find a spot for you)
Maybe Jews (Those are intimidating beards)
Maybe Gays (Boys are taught that the penis is sacred and spiritual. Many of them sing and act and love men named joseph and jesus (not hispanic). They spend hours alone camping and other activities. The church can't see any reason why some of them would be gay. As for women, why would they be gay when it separates them from the priesthood? Duh!)
Maybe Catholics (stained glass. Need I say more?)
Maybe scientists (this is reasonable since millions of them have colluded to discredit the church)
Maybe atheists (life is too random to be a coincidence. Wait, what?)
Maybe dinosaurs (Satan planted those bones. He also aged those isotopes to confuse us.
Maybe anyone who doesn't belong to this one true religion.
Maybe anyone that does belong but doesn't practice it correctly.
Maybe aliens (not illegal aliens but those from outer space)

That's not a very long list and doesn't encompass very many people. And even fewer animals.

And where is God, why isn't he talking to the prophet about this thorny issue?

Like birth control in the 1960s, torture recently, and most other huge social change issues, God is absent.

The prophets don't even pretend to provide moral leadership. If they did, it would most likely be proven wrong in the long run. They cower behind proclamations about earrings instead.

Does an extra earring cause even a fraction of the pain that these real issues cause?

It was mostly live and let live. I never saw anything as bad as what you describe.

LDS, Inc. that I know of has never spelled out in any detail what their immigration policy is probably for reasons of plausible deniability. This cuts both ways - it allows more liberal LDS leaders to be kind and the rest to be complete asshats if they wish.

Overall I think America continues to inch forward and be more accepting of everyone. Recent scrutiny towards Mormons may have the effect of polarizing the LDS asshats to be meaner yet.

This is where you see the strange nature of Mormon leaders. if your in long enough you see really christian bishops who will give money to everybody. I once had a bishop who gave money from his own pockets when the were not enough offerings in the box and gave it to people who seemed to be scamming the church. then there are the bishops who give money or aid but not before coming over and going through your house and shaking you down for valuables, like making you sell the tv and any expensive items. Then there are the ones who will not give anything. don't they have some sort of standard piece of paper they are supposed to work from?

being inclusive and loving others, but the moment it anything comes along to question their "white and delightsome" centric world view then all you see is racism and bigotry.

In all fairness though, its not just minorities they secretly hate. It's gays, outspoken women, liberals, scientists, believers in global warming, etc. When it comes to bigotry, mormonism is an equal opportunity hater.