After watching a televised interview with Robbie Parker, whose daughter was one of the children who died as a result of the Sandy Hook school shootings, something about the way he presented himself, the fact that the family was originally from Utah, and the way he referred to God as "Heavenly Father" (in my experience, this is unique to Mormons) made me wonder if he is a Mormon. I googled it, and found a few bits of evidence that he is. An LDS bishop is described as a long time family friend, and on a blog he is described as Mormon.
Anyway, it doesn't matter as far as my feeling compassion for him and for his family, especially his deceased daughter Emily, but it did help me to understand why he came across as quite strange (to me as a nevermo) in the interview. He expressed forgiveness for the shooter's family (which I admire), but he seemed to be saying it somehow because he thought he should, rather than because he really felt that way, and he said that he was not mad about what had happened (which I find highly unusual the day after his 6 year old had been violently murdered), and then started talking quite calmly about free agency. Did anyone else see the interview (it's on YouTube), and if so , what did you think? Do you feel his reaction was typically Mormon?

I saw it, and noted that he was the first of all the parents to be interviewed.

I know that if it had happened to one of my kids, I would not be able to talk at all, let alone express those kinds of thoughts.

At least not after only one day.

Wasn't it BKP who said funerals were an opportunity to preach the plan of salvation and should not be family reunions or focus on the deceased?

I agree, Papaken. He seemed in a way to be fighting strong emotions, but also seemed at moments calm and happy. I'm not trying to judge (who knows how I'd act or react after such a horrific thing happened?), but it just seemed odd.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2012 02:18AM by truthseeker.

He might be in shock, and this is a coping mechanism.

Between all that Christian religions teach about forgiveness, and the promises that they spout (you'll find freedom, God will forgive you, etc), I know *I* believed forgivenss was a magic bullet for a while there.

I was sexually abused by my step dad from the age of 3-12. He spent a year in jail, because I refused to testify and they gave him a plea agreement.

When I was 19 or so, and fully in my mainstream Christianity days, I was a missionary working in Lausanne, Switzerland. I had been praying that I would be able to have the words to forgive that man, and "witness" to him. One night, in my tiny little room, I wrote him a letter of forgiveness and sent it off.

A few months later I heard from his ex-wife, the mother of his daughters. He was unable to contact me himself as part of the restraining order that accompanied his sentence. But she told me my letter had freed him, that he found God, and that they all wished me well.

13 years later I wish I could go back in time, rip that letter up, and smack myself upside the head. It was comforting at the time, so I suppose it served some purpose, but really- it just kills me now. (Especially the thought of him living guilt free. Or with less guilt than he deserves.)

I can't say that I wasn't genuine in my belief that forgiveness was the right thing to do. I did believe all of that. And to some extent, I still believe that forgiveness is an important part of long term self care. But I no longer think he deserves to know about it! He deserves to feel like an asshole.

My long, rambly point is that forgiveness is held up as a virtue, AND a magic bullet. It will free you! It will heal you! It will be a testimony to those around you! I suspect he's just victim to that right now, and he is trying to cling to the idea that being forgiving will help lessen the pain he will eventually have to face.

Genuine forgiveness usually comes as part of a long grieving process, and it's usually not Step 1.

Lily, your comment that "forgiveness usually comes as part of a long grieving process" is so true, and helped me to see, at least partially, why the interview struck me as so odd. I do believe that forgiveness can be very freeing, but the fact that he was able to get to the point of forgiveness in just one day seemed insincere. I mean, I have no real way to see inside his mind and heart of course, but in my experience, when real forgiveness for a serious injustice does occur, it is a long and complicated process.

Screw You (not really trying to say this to you in return, but I don't know what else to call you!) I have no doubt that he is probably in shock (understandably so!), but I'm not sure why you seem so angry at me. I expressed that I feel compassion for him and for his family, and that I admire his extension of forgiveness. I also said above "who knows how I'd act or react?". I am in no way trying to score "cheap points". I've been crying off and on ever since I heard about this tragedy. But I maintain that his reaction was strange (to me) and I will say that by going public he does open himself up to reactions by the public. We're ALL trying to make sense of what happened.

Sorry --posted this in the wrong place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2012 02:35AM by truthseeker.

truthseeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Screw You (not really trying to say this to you in
> return, but I don't know what else to call you!) I
> have no doubt that he is probably in shock
> (understandably so!), but I'm not sure why you
> seem so angry at me. I expressed that I feel
> compassion for him and for his family, and that I
> admire his extension of forgiveness. I also said
> above "who knows how I'd act or react?". I am in
> no way trying to score "cheap points". I've been
> crying off and on ever since I heard about this
> tragedy. But I maintain that his reaction was
> strange (to me) and I will say that by going
> public he does open himself up to reactions by the
> public. We're ALL trying to make sense of what
> happened.
>
> Sorry --posted this in the wrong place.

If you feel sorry for him and his situation, empathize with him. Don't make stupid statements questioning whether his statements were genuine or scripted based on some dogmatic expectations based on his beliefs. Don't ask if its typically Mormon to respond the way he did. Who cares.

His daughter was one of the youngest killed. The image of him in shock and his wife weeping as they arrived at the school have been one of the most prominently distributed photos in the media. The media have been camping him out, and he was advised that if he made some kind of statement, maybe they would be sated and leave him and his family alone so they could deal with this. Whether that was good advice or not, is not for us to decide. Opening himself up to the public was done to get the media off his family's back, but feel free to question if he was genuine or going off some LDS induced auto pilot mode. Again, who cares.

Actually, I think it's important to consider whether his statements were sincere or just "LDS induced autopilot mode" (your words, I would call it the result of brain washing). The reason is because (as another commenter mentioned above) the LDS church encourages people to use their loved one's deaths as a vehicle for promoting the "gospel" above all else, even their own grief. It's conceivable that some of the viewing public will see this interview, think of Mr. Parker as a great example of faith based on his statement, research his religion, and get involved in Mormonism. I know the LDS church is false (and so do you), so I don't want that to happen. Therefore I am questioning his sincerity.

truthseeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, I think it's important to consider
> whether his statements were sincere or just "LDS
> induced autopilot mode" (your words, I would call
> it the result of brain washing). The reason is
> because (as another commenter mentioned above) the
> LDS church encourages people to use their loved
> one's deaths as a vehicle for promoting the
> "gospel" above all else, even their own grief.
> It's conceivable that some of the viewing public
> will see this interview, think of Mr. Parker as a
> great example of faith based on his statement,
> research his religion, and get involved in
> Mormonism. I know the LDS church is false (and so
> do you), so I don't want that to happen. Therefore
> I am questioning his sincerity.

BKP said a lot of stupid crap. His funeral/missionary opportunity speech isn't wildly distributed or even well known in the heavy LDS sector I live in.

Secondly, I didn't hear Robbie make any mention of the word Mormonism or LDS. He used the term HF which is common among LDS people. Your assumption that this was some kind of missionary effort is insulting. Converting "gentiles" is the last thing on his mind.

Thirdly, I know Robbie and his family. They are LDS, and not all of them are even active. I would hardly categorize them as the hardcore Peter Priesthood types who are constantly on the prowl to nab a new convert or promote the church's image, but keep on making assumptions.

Your OP does a tremendous job to help us understand why a mentally ill person entered a school and killed a bunch of kids. From your astute observations, we can learn a lot by reviewing Robbie's grief and trying to tie it into to how weird Mormonism is or how Mormons are "brainwashed" Give me a break!

There are plenty of opportunities to point out how off beat Mormonism is. The tragedy that has befallen this man's family is an inappropriate time for these observations.

Seriously, this thread should just be closed IMHO.

You are an embarrassment and should be ashamed of yourself. If you think for one minute that this man is using this unspeakable event is a vehicle for Mormon conversion, you are so far gone from reality that it's nearly not even worth the effort to type these words. Get a life.

I know Robbie's family. He's a good guy. Who are you to criticize his statements? His 6 yr old daughter was shot in the head at point blank range yesterday. Did you know the parents of the victims had to identify the bodies of their murdered loved ones? He is in total shock. His mind is still trying to make sense of everything. His father-in-law died two months ago due to a freak cycling accident. his family has been through hell. I wonder what your statements would be like in a similar situation? Who cares what his religion is, or that he's Mormon, or how his statements seemed off.

The ignorance and insensitivity on this board astound me sometimes. Like many others on this board, I was once LDS, and left the church as I believe it is not what it proclaims to be. However, I believe that certain situations like this are not ideal for scoring cheap points or observations on how "weird" or "out of touch" Mormons are.

I extend my sympathy to you and your friends and aquaintances and family, this must be a horrible time for all of you and many others.

Empathy and sadness for the Mormon father and family whose child was killed - Check

Annoyance at the TBM programming (in which in his state of grief and shock, he tried to keep from crying while stammering "I'm not mad...") - Check -

Why? It's upsetting that Mormonism teaches its people that they are not allowed to be angry. There is a time and a place to be angry, and anger is part of the grieving process. If the father in question feels he isn't allowed to be angry, due to his faith's teachings, then he won't be able to process the unimaginable grief he must feel. That's just wrong!

I must of forgot, you have any links to the Amish parents allowing an interview with them or their children?

I learned long ago if you go on TV, you accept what comes

Ya, sure a death in the family should be a chance to spread the gospel. right

I hope the rabbi that was there so quickly was able to provide comfort for him ... chew on that



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2012 08:54AM by mindlight.

I watched it live on CNN. The second he walked out with his white shirt and suit, my MO radar beeped.

Then when he said he had been teaching her Portugese, it beeped again.

When it went off completely was when a reporter asked the ages of his children. He answered "I have a 3 year old, a 4 year old and a 6 year old".

I didn't mind it at all. His beliefs will help him through this, and that's ok.

Pretty disgusting thread OP.

Never in my life have I cared so little about a man's involvement with Mormonism. Mormons say that Jesus sweated blood through his pores when he took on the burden of human sin. I just saw Robbie Parker sweat tears through his pores as he spoke of his daughter. Did you notice how his head was wet? His hair, face and everything?

I boast that no man, not even Jesus, understands the pain of Robbie Parker.

Everyone is being alittle hard on OP. I think OP is just trying to make sense of the victims reaction to what has happened.

Just like many of you, when he said he was teaching portuguese to his child, I knew he was Mormon. I´m sure he is doing his best to help the shooter family too, not only the victims families.

This is just disgusting to say things like "mormon brainwash" because his words. The Amish people did the same and nobody was saying it. Why with the Mormons?

This man is completely heartbroken, such as his entire family. You close this topic ´cause if sick!

I had pretty mixed feelings when I watched this video. I realized immediately that he was mormon, and that he was giving a talk. I know that part of being mormon is rehearsing, over and over, a pretty specific way of responding to life stressors. In moments of strain, we do what we know. I can't blame him, can't be upset with him. I feel terrible for him. My daughter is exactly the same age as the victims. I would react pretty automatically, which is exactly what this sounds like.

Do I personally react to this kind of "talk?" Sure. I find it gut-churning and unpleasant. I remember that my feelings were usually a lot more mixed and complex that mormon culture typically tolerates. I remember that the inability to express any kind of thought or feeing that was not tolerated/sanctioned was painfully oppressive, and often caused me and others to cope in fairly distorted ways.

So, I feel bad for him that his daughter was horrifically slaughtered. And I feel really bad for him that he will only have a very small number of acceptable ways for him to feel or express himself. And I feel really lucky that my daughter is asleep in her bed and is fine, and that I can have complicated feelings, and it not cause me any problems.

One of the reasons to leave was just to be able to feel and think as I needed to. To just be human. My hope for this man and his family is that they'll be able to do this (even while I strongly doubt it). I cringe, understanding that grief is a process and that releasing a definitive statement about your feelings on something like this just a day or two after is happens can put you in an interesting position as your feelings naturally change over time.

But, at the end of the day, he's just a dad who's baby girl was murdered. And I'm not (thank god).

The original poster wrote: "He expressed forgiveness for the shooter's family (which I admire), but he seemed to be saying it somehow because he thought he should, rather than because he really felt that way, and he said that he was not mad about what had happened (which I find highly unusual the day after his 6 year old had been violently murdered), and then started talking quite calmly about free agency."

To Screw You (and others), I do see this as 'scripted' and/or an automatic response, probably from his Christian or Mormon background.

Why mention forgiveness to the shooter's family? They did nothing wrong. And were they asking for forgiveness? Saying that you 'forgive' is an expected response from Christians/Mormons.

He said he's not angry? Of course he's angry. But he seems to be saying this because it's expected of one who is trying to be forgiving.

He talks about Free Agency? These are Mormon key words (and possibly Christian as well).

I didn't see this news clip, and I won't. I can't. I know it'll be too painful for me. I believe I know what shock, horror, anguish, and pain this man is going through. My credentials? My son was only 2-years-old when he was killed.

What he is reported to have said are very likely 'automatic' and 'expected' responses by someone who is a practicing Christian and/or Mormon.

I had a Mormon background when my son was killed, but I was no longer a member. But I can assure you that what were no thoughts of 'forgiveness' or principles of 'free agency' on my mind then, and there was certainly a LOT of anger at the person who killed him.

Since forgiveness is a keystone of the Christian faith, some Christians who have had terrible wrongs commmited against them feel that they must offer forgiveness to their wrongdoer right away. But I concur with Lily, above, who says that genuine forgiveness can only happen after much time and healing has elapsed.

Everyone grieves in their own way. It is a wretched road to follow. It is best to give people lots of latitude in how they grieve.

It does not surprise me that the media is putting a lot of pressure on these families. This story was reported around the world. My local news station sent reporters up to Connecticut. The story affected people everywhere. I'm sorry that the families have to deal with the media at the same time as they are trying to process their horrible grief.

First this is a tragedy and my prayers are with the families and the people of this community. I also wondered if he was a Mormon. I felt that it was strange that he would be composed enough to dress himself in a suit and give a news conference. I would have thought that he would have been home with his wife and children. In addition, he has already set up a fund for donation. However, everyone grieves in their own way maybe this is his way. I only hope that he is not using this tragedy as a way to elevate himself or his religion to attain some goal. No one, no one is entitled to profit from this tragedy.

Seriously? At a time like this, you're judging how the father of a six-year-old murder victim acts? Did you do this during the Amish school shootings?

C'mon, folks, what the bleeding hell? "I knew he was Mormon when he said he was teaching her Portuguese". Bull, my dad taught me Portuguese as a kid, and I'd never heard of the Mormons. We were Portuguese, imagine that...

As for his reaction, everyone reacts differently when our current media types stick a mic in their face. I'm a trained and experienced broadcaster, so my bent it to treat it like a news story, even if my family is involved. You can never tell, was it "brainwashing" or a normal reaction?

Let's take a little time and think of the other families that lost kids to this psycho and forget about one freaking Mormon that happened to be in the group...

Yes they are LDS. At the time I stopped believing in the church I was the 2nd counselor in my Ward and Parker's wife's brother-in-law was the EQ prez in my Ward.

alx71ut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes they are LDS. At the time I stopped believing
> in the church I was the 2nd counselor in my Ward
> and Parker's wife's brother-in-law was the EQ prez
> in my Ward.

"It doesn't make any sense. I don't understand how people can decide to do such evil to such innocent children and people," said Brian Joy, an bishop for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who knows the Parker family. "So many families are grieving throughout the country right now. You never realize how far-reaching these actions can be."

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865568848/Former-Ogden-family-loses-daughter-in-school-shooting.html

No

I am thinking about how his "faith" will hinder him in bonding with other parents, after all, he has the one true gospel .. right? You think he will lay that aside?
This is an exmo board for gawds sake

I can work out this tragedy anyway I like.
Reminding myself that I don't want to react the way the church programmed me is important for my recovery

I want to embrace them all, no fuckin hidden agenda.
I like to remember how the church told me to spread their bullshit, keeps me happy being different

If you don't like the thread then don't post and try to make me feel ... what is it .... guilt? Ain't gonna happen

Start another thread
all I am feeling is anger



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2012 09:44AM by mindlight.

Is saying - Well, at least he has his faith

cruel?

or acknowledging his faith as all important to him, simply the truth as he knows it
Will he be pleased my morning pagan oblations include thoughts of his child?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2012 10:00AM by mindlight.

I didn't see the interview, nor will I. However a never-Mormon friend of mine, another American living in Salzburg, brought the interview up to me. She commented on another strange aspect of it. When I told her the interview was the subject of discussion here, she told me that she brought it up because she also guessed he was Mormon.

I make no judgement; I haven't seen it. I am appalled by his loss and those of all concerned. I merely point out that the characteristics noted by exMormons were noted by nonMormons too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2012 09:45AM by Lorraine aka síóg.

I too googled to see if he could be Mormon. He just sounded like he was. Almost like a testimony meeting.

But he gave voice to all of those parent's grief. If it is indeed theraputic to talk feelings, he did and perhaps gave some kind of courage to others to be able to speak. And it was important to speak about who his daughter was as she will not have the opportunity to be remembered for anything beyond this awful tragedy.

I watched Anderson Cooper and was glad to see that he made a point of not mentioning the shooter's name and, instead acknowledge as well as he could, each of the victims.

I admire the rabbi who was there so quickly and also gave a voice for the parents

I have not watched all of the interviews at all. Is his Mo speaking ability letting him gain forefront coverage? That measured talking style. The epitome of the white way>? and success?
Yes, I am suspicious of all things Mo

How many parents allowed an interview I wonder.

and no, I haven't taken my meds yet rofl

I think if you will carefully read what I originally posted, you will find that I wrote nothing hateful toward this man and his family. I only extended compassion (although maybe the way I worded it wasn't the best) and shared my feeling that the interview seemed strange and scripted (which apparently others shared). Obviously I was not too far off in thinking that there was something a bit unusual about the interview,because it immediately led me and others to conclude (correctly) that he is indeed Mormon.

As I think about it a little more, and read some of the other comments, I think maybe it was a bit of a cultural misunderstanding. Different cultures have different views of death, and different ways of reacting to it. It helps me personally to see it that way.

So, thank you to those who made an attempt to understand where I was coming from and offered words of agreement and support, and to those who made excellent points that made me understand more about the "programming" involved. For those who had harsh words for me, they are unwarranted and I feel no need to apologize or to delete the thread.

I have absolutely no ill will toward Mr. Parker, only compassion for his loss and for the fact that he is deceived by a false religion that apparently teaches him that he must stuff any normal and natural negative feelings that may arise from the horror that occurred to his child. And for those who think that the topic should never have been brought up here, think about it. It's been the most talked about news story since it happened. A Mormon was in the national spotlight. If I hadn't brought it up here, someone else would have.

Bottom line--I have profound sympathy for all involved in this situation.

I wish all of them would have the freedom they need to express their feelings, no matter what they are, even anger. I wish that they all felt the freedom to choose whether or not to forgive (not just feel like they had to say that) and if they do choose to forgive, that they would know it's usually a long process. Lastly, I would like to be able to tell them that it's OK to feel whatever they feel, and that they don't have to "put on a happy face" for the camera.