First off, thanks for the awesome advice from everyone on the other thread I started last night, it really helps and makes me feel a lot better about my situation. I wasn't able to answer all the questions on the other thread because it closed, but I just thought I'd post some of the things my mother sent to me in an email this morning, just so you know what kind of brain washed mega TBM bullshit i'm dealing with. This is what she said:

"Mitch. Nothing anyone can say will ever penetrate your heart and mind. Nothing. You have been taught the truth all your life.....as I write this I know it is fruitless - I can't even go on. I feel pain every day because you don't care. You just don't care. Your decision to not serve a mission is devastating. When you pay tithing you are protected financially. You don't pay tithing - you're broke. It's that simple. I can't continue to hurt my finances by supporting you. You don't believe your circumstances are a result of your choices - they absolutely are.

Only you have the power and potential to make your life prosperous and happy. You know how to do that but you refuse. Heavenly Father is waiting to pour out fantastic blessings upon your head and won't you have it - so you see your life beginning to have struggles - yes, whether you want to accept it or not - there is a spiritual connection.
I will have to think and pray about whether it's the right decision to give you money.
mom"

You see, in my moms eyes, every bad thing in my life and struggle is a direct result of my disobedience. I love life, I am free to choose, to do what I want, to live how I want, and I love that, but it really sucks because I am the outcast of my entire family. If I went on a mission, and "obeyed", this whole situation could have been avoided. But i'm never going back. I have to stay true to myself. My parents are divorced, and my dad helps out with money when he can, but he is kind of a dick sometimes and isn't really that helpful or supportive. My dad is really stingy and unreliable. I am still applying for jobs and I really appreciate all of the amazing feedback I received from you guys! thank you so much!

They don't have trouble finding employment? Not quite.

This may be overly obvious, and you've probably thought of it, but is there a work/study program through your school?

Good luck. Gee whiz, thanks for the loving support, mommy! What a bitch.

I think you're doing great, btw.

My mom is like this; She grilled me when I was 19 about why I didn't go to church anymore. She then turned on the waterworks after I told her that, "Yes, I have drank, smoked, and had sex." She then more or less kicked me out of the house and I ended up living with an emotionally abusive guy.

I've had to cut her more than once from my life because she wants to punish me for my choices in life.

Your mom seems to have very little respect for you as a person. You've told her the truth and she continues to punish you, even though you are an adult. She would rather you starve than help you. If I were in your place, I would be cutting her out of my life until she learned to respect my decision and stop trying to punish me.

Sounds like you're just leaving the nest? It's an awkward period when you go from being someones kid to going out into the world, on your own and becoming a functioning adult member of society. Growing up sucks.

Religious parents use church in divisive ways (eg- no longer supporting you since you don't goto church).

My advice- Don't rely on either of your parents.. Forge your own path. Distance from your parents will be a good thing. Get student loans and work toward a career or trade that you will love and enjoy for the rest of your life (yes, it's a life sentence).

I would be ballistic. Her logic is so easy to rip to shreds. Utah has the most Moron tithe payers in the entire universe and yet they have all sorts of crappy economic statistics. At one time Utah had the highest foreclosure and bankruptcy rates in the nation. At one time the church was in financial trouble and that is when they instituted the mandatory tithing for the temple. I believe in the 1950s. And lest she forgets the churches own Bonneville Insurance company just went belly up after they pumped 600 million into it to try and save it.

Not to mention the whole concept of compassion that she is rejecting-what a nasty person.I am really sorry and I thought that my TBM mom was bad.

Satan got booted into outer darkness for eternity for wanting to force people to follow god's plan. What makes your mom think she'll get off with less punishment than Satan?

On the plus side, if you are not getting any money or support from your mom, you can draw a clear line between you. Block her emails. And if you speak to her on the phone or in person, you need to let her know her advice is not welcome and you will leave if she bring the topic up. Then follow through until she gets it.

Just know that you are doing what is best for you. And though it hurts now, in the long run, you will come out of this a self-made man on a path of your own choosing. That is invaluable. It sucks now, but in the long run, you will be stronger, more confident and completely independent from your judgmental family.

Hang in there!

I wish you luck. I couldn't help but laugh when I read your moms email. Just keep trying, there are plenty of ex-mormons, atheists, agnostics and deists who are successful. At least you know early that you can't rely on them. If you were in Montana, and not Utah I could possibly help, we are hiring where I work, at a museum. If your not opposed to the military, is there an ROTC program up there? I have several friends who have done that and it worked out really good for them. Your in Logan if I remember? The only people I know in Logan are TBM, three former mission companions, and my sisters ex who thinks that he is a werewolf. From reading the USU-shaft blog it sounds like there would be a good support group up there.

You can't find a job because you're not paying tithing? You aren't "financially protected"'without paying it?! LOL- has she seen the foreclosure rate in Utah? Seems like a whole lot of people are going unblessed!

Your story is a fascinating one, rallychild- I'm pulling for you. I am so sorry you have to deal with this cult crap. Look into assistance and post-mo meetups. I wish you luck and happiness!! You deserve it!

If you don't have a job, what are you supposed to be paying tithing with to earn you the blessings of finding a job?

And, does your mom really presume that god needs HER to withhold grocery money to her child in order to teach him a lesson? God can't handle that himself?

Ugh, I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. I think that underlying attitude of 'they deserved it' or 'they'll get what's coming to them' was one of the big things that pushed me out. To see it so blatently aimed at someone's own child is horrible.

Like others, I'd like to sincerely offer whatever help I can, be it lunch when you're in town (we live in Draper) or even a couch to crash on.

Also like others have said, you're going to make it through this, as your own man, and you'll be much stronger for it.

My TBM is the same. BRAINWASHED!!!! She too will blame all of life’s problems on the fact that I left the morg yet, don’t Mormons have problems too? I find that TBMs are not only brainwashed but they have selective memories that serve their denial/self interests.

All of this magical thinking that is loaded with dogma and silly rules has nothing to do with reality. My TBM mom actually told me last Friday that she believes in the literal meaning of Noah’s Ark. I told that I thought that was one of the most ridiculous things that I have ever heard of in my life. How did they get the polar bears on the ark???!!!!

I am a lot older that you are. Time helps and it gets better.

Ya have trouble buying groceries, but at least the TBM God has his money.

I'm gonna agree that your mom is being a heinous bitch. If she has the means to help you out financially while you're trying to get back on your feet, she should do it. Everyone needs help now and then and the fact that she's withholding because you're living life on your own terms is some serious fuckwittage.

I put myself through college for the most part working minimum wage and taking out student loans (and a pell grant). Pell grants are the best, but going into debt for school and to survive through it ended up being not bad at all. Be sure you intend to graduate and have a career direction for afterwards, though. I ate many bowls of ramen off of student loan money.
My mom was saddened when I told her I no longer paid tithing as a result of falling away from the church. She told me story after story about how she and my dad were blessed financially from paying tithing over and over and over. I then listed to her all of the "out of the sky" financial windfalls I had received since deciding to stop paying tithing (there were quite a few, and at least as much, maybe more, than most of their "blessings"). She didn't have any response, since I'm doing the best financially out of pretty much my whole TBM family.
She probably thinks it's Satan fueling my pride. Funny how their world-view wins no matter what the circumstance. I'll bet they're just itching to see my career collapse so they can point fingers.

I liked this part: "You don't pay tithing - you're broke."

More folks than not that don't pay tithing aren't broke. Is that just a Mormon thing?

Just wonderin'...

Ron

that the "rain falls on the just and unjust" -- she is in super guilt mode and going off the charts with it. She is getting up there with a couple Catholics I know who can do guilt better than that! :-)

My view: Ignore her. Don't take it personally. Hard to do? Yup. But this is not about you. What she is saying is 100% about her and not you. It's about her need to validate her own thinking and decisions, not about your right to your choices. I don't think she realizes what she is doing. You are not living up to HER expectations so she is doing the guilt trip thing. Remember the old adage: you don't have to go on any guilt trips you don't want to take! :-)


Mom is being a mom who is disappointed in not seeing her emotional attachments to her expectations come to fruition.
Who is unhappy? She is. It's always the same.
The greatest unhappiness comes from unfulfilled emotional attachments (paraphrased from a Buddhist teaching.)

She is unhappy, you are not. What to do?
Maybe she'll lighten up with time. I sure hope so!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2011 04:06PM by SusieQ#1.

stop reading her emails! :-)
Take control of the situation and remove yourself from her disappointment and guilt nonsense! You can't talk to her. She won't listen. Maybe later.
Maybe you'll find some peace that way.

It's hard to believe something as foolish as Mormonism can turn your own mother against you. I wish I had some advice for you. I completely lost respect for my parents when they started behaving like that, and I have never regained it. I think this attitude is unexplainable. I would never say something like that to my son.

Mitch:

Stop taking money from your family. Sucks, I know, but stop it now.

Ron

Also stop using your breaks to visit them. You can not put yourself in a situation that gives them control over you, and expect to maintain control yourself. Accepting money gives them power. Sleeping under their roof, eating their groceries(even if it's just for a weeks vacation) gives them power.

Bitchy mom - Rallychild, are you coming home for spring break?

Rallychild - Sorry Mom, but I need to stay here, at MY home on campus and study and save money.

B M - But I miss you.

R C - Why don't you come visit me one weekend?

B M - Well, I can't leave....(whatever lame excuse)/ Or maybe I will come visit...

Either way she is now on the defensive, and out of her comfort zone. If she doesn't visit it's her fault, and if she does you are in control.

The first time I told my Dad "no" to an offer of money it flabbergasted him. When I followed it up with "You have emotional strings attached to your gifts to me and it isn't fair to either of us when I accept them because I'm not going to change my behavior the way you want me to."

He spluttered and denied that there were any strings attached but I think that was really the beginning of an honest relationship between the two of us.

:)

sounds like an email from my delusional TBM BIL. Send her a polite note telling her you don't want to discuss religion with her anymore and be done with it. Email discussions frustrate all involved. Let them go back to their make-believe world. They enjoy the warmth of the Matrix too much.

...Jim Huston's post, "All is not well in Zion" into a return email.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,136836

Heavenly Father is apparently not too happy with the Mormons at present. Oh right, I forgot, he's just testing them.

That has to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

I'm sorry to hear that you are struggling financially and I know how hard the job market is right now but just keep swimming! You don't need to continue to put up with a toxic person like that.

just wanted to echo one of the older guys, ROTC is a good way to pay for school and get some living money, you have to earn it but it is better (IMHO) than getting into debt/fasting :) because you can't find a job... good luck with the mom situation hope that works out. My mom died before I left but she called me Judas one time because I decided to go to high school instead of home schooling, can only imagine that she would react the same way as your mom if she were still around.

This is a woman that was emotionally abused at some point in her life. Whether by family or by the idiotic cult leaders.

She feels the only way to deal with someone else countering her is to use manipulation. She's playing the huge victimhood card by saying, "I feel pain every day because you don't care."

Then she tries to seduce you into the victim mentality by saying,"Only you have the power and potential to make your life prosperous and happy. You know how to do that but you refuse."

She claims that you have all the power to make her happy, but that know one else has the power to make you happy. All responsibility for bad is on you, dude.

Get away from this severely limiting relationship as soon as you can. I know it is hard. May FSM bless you.

"Dear Brother Rallychild's mom , we hereby revoke your Temple Reccommend for **Unchristianlike conduct** towards your son, in regards to you not wanting to assist in feeding one of God's children.

Yours sincerely
Stake President-------

JB

Man, that letter is the biggest load of bull. The only thing that happens when one pays their tithing is that they get poorer.

You're suffering financially because she won't help. SHE's the cause. Not your disobedience.

As you said, you may have to rely on yourself, but that actually might not be a bad thing. Do you really want to be in debt to her, if even emotionally, because she gave you money? She'd always hold that over your head. Who need thats?

The guilt and manipulation really makes me mad, and that letter is just dripping with it. Don't let her give you a guilt complex. Just let it roll off your back. It's a tactic and the Church has clearly taught her well.

Yes the Church is SOOOOOOOO pro-family. Family, family, family. We strengthen FAMILIES. We can help your family be strong and happy.

Family, family, family!

"Dear son, Because of Mormonism we will be making you a second-class member of the family.

"Sincerely

"A. Mormon."

Dear Mom,
Just writing to let you know that I will not be discussing your religion with you. Ever again. Hopefully you get some help in dealing with your pain, I hear Utah leads the nation in antidepressant use. Maybe you can find someone to help you.

Don't worry about me. I have gone to a Christian organization and they are making sure I don't go hungry. There are some really great Christlike people in the world, and I am fortunate to have found some who care about me.

Money is especially tight right now, but even so, I am happier than I have ever been and life is good. I will look you up someday in the future.

Love, Rallychild


A note for you: you are not responsible for anyone else's happiness but your own. Nobody can make you feel guilt unless you let them. Find a way to support yourself and never take another dime from your parents. The price you will pay is far too high. I would advise keeping your distance for a while, and only contact them again when you are feeling strong enough to let their guilt trips slide right off of you.

I'm really tempted to use that and send it to my mom in an email. But that would probably just fuel the fire. It's probably best that I just stay away from her for a little while.

I'd have to bear my testimony that God opened the windows of heaven to me only after I ditched Mormonism. My career is going well and I'm doing quite well financially. I'm much happier now than I ever was in mormonism. If I'm suffering God's wrath because I left the mormon church and quit paying tithing I can't wait to die and go to hell!!

I'm sorry you're going through this. It hurts like hell, but we've all been through it too. Hang in there - you're life is definitely going to be better than it ever could in mormonism.

So if your mom divorced did you ever ask why the Lord allowed such a thing to happen since she obviously paid tithing, followed all the rules, etc. Why her? Seems only bad things happen to other people in HER eyes. Sorry for her nasty email. But you are right...stay true to yourself. She is too far gone.

...who sees no obligation for the mom to help the son out? Lots of people decide not to give money to other people, and it is a completely normal thing for someone to live without asking for the help. People are saying the behavior is un-Christlike, as if there are some passages in the New Testament in which Jeebus says specifically that "thou shalt give all they money to thy children" or something. This argument has nothing to do with some weird, 2000 year old zombified figure, it has everything to do with control.

The mom is sad because she couldn't indoctrinate her son. This is a good thing, it shows that Mitch does have a backbone. She chooses to use money as a control over her son. Fine. The only reason she has this control over Mitch is that Mitch allows her to have it.

The answer is to stop asking her money. Problem solved. Eat raman noodles and sell plasma for pizza money like most college students.

I know, it is harder than that Mitch, but set the terms for the relationship you want to have with your mother and stick to them. Nobody else can do it for you. If you can't afford school, then don't go to school. If you can't find a job, get on government assistance. Cut the cord, do it as quick as you can, and don't let anybody ever have that much power over you again.

Here's an idea! Reassure her that when she gives you $30, that you will immediately pay $3 Tithing on it. Go buy $27 worth of groceries. You just need to convince her that she is denying you the blessings of paying tithing by NOT giving you the money!!

Just an idea......

Just tell you Mom, that you don't need the cash after all...you're going to the lovely food pantry run by the catholics.........

If you were my son I'd be mighty proud of you.

I agree that your mother doesn't OWE you money but it's clear from her words that the only reason she isn't helping is manipulation, not an attempt to help you be responsible.

My daughter actually left my home before finishing high school, was engaged in very self-destructive behaviors and worried me terribly -- I still provided for her needs as they came up. And the upshot of that was that when she ended up pregnant her senior year she came home and straightened out her life. I have a lovely grandson who is a huge part of my life because my daughter knew that even when she made choices I disapproved of I loved her and wanted the best for her. I'm so sad that your Mom doesn't understand that concept.

I agree with the consensus -- Mom is toxic and a break between you two is probably in order. I know putting those sorts of boundaries between me and my parents helped our relationship enormously.

Good luck and get that degree! You can do it!

I hurt for you man. I put up with all my adult years with this kind of crap. My mom never changed her mind.

A few weeks ago, I took a week and went to Utah to help her die. She had lost all continence and the ability to truly feed herself. So, I did all of this for her. During this she continued to berate me about "my loss of faith". At one point she asked me, "how can you do this?" (meaning change her diapers and clean her up). I told her, "I love you mom, why wouldn't I? This is the circle of life. I do this for you and one day my children will do this for me." She looked at me and asked, "You have children?" Taken aback, I said, "Yeah Mom, you know... (and I name off my stepkids, who ARE my kids). She then rolls her eyes and says, "Oh, right."

She even had the audacity to tell my husband that she knew I was insane because of how I felt about the church and his kids, and how on earth could I hold down a job? She was serious. And, no, she wasn't losing her mind, this is what she has been like for all my life.

Decades ago I had to emotionally divorce myself from her because of this kind of abuse.

She died last week. I have the comfort of knowing that through all this, I treated her with kindness and gentleness. I can look at myself in the mirror and know that I was a "good human being".

Holy shit, Heidi!

Dang, girl, I had no idea. You are an incredible person, for sure.

First, I need to say that you are a much better person than I. If faced with the same amount of bile spewed forth from someone I was caring for, I would have smeared a dirty diaper right in her face and gone home.

I completely admire people who are able to.

Amen, Mikey!