Does anyone have an answer to this?

Because J Smith was virile, but none of the other women he married had children by him, it is good proof that he did not have sex with any of them and married them as obedience and thoughts for them?

Thank you - I know some of you will have a reply x

There is evidence that Joseph Smith had a doctor friend, John C. Bennett, who would abort any babies that came along. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Marinda_Bates_Pratt#Allegation_of_abortions for more details.

That's how I prevented my girlfriend from becoming pregnant.

It's hard, but doable.

Maybe Joe was into Anal?

Coitus interruptus? Is that the same as Emma with a rolling pin?

... to believe Horn-Dog Joe never got down with his 'other' brides is pure gullibility.

Timothy

If your friend's married, ask:
How many times have you slept with your spouse?
How many kids do you have?

For most folks, the ratio is at least over 20, if not 50-100.
Here's some reporting on the topic:

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120313-sex-in-the-city-or-elsewhere

Generally speaking, an average child will take about 40 acts of sex to conceive.

As others have noted, Jon Bennett appears to have been complicit in some abortions. Given health conditions at the time, there were probably others who aborted spontaneously as well.

Finally, there is some evidence that Joe did in fact have offspring.

So, to answer your question: Conception requires lots of sex. Joseph had lots of wives and little time. Therefore it is unlikely he had enough sex with any of them individually to conceive, though the sex in aggregate was probably substantial.

As a Brit, we learn about kings & queens. Notably(in this department) :

Charles II - lots of mistresses, lots of offspring
William IV - one mistress, lots of offspring

but Henry VIII - six wives, several mistresses, but he only produced two boys who died young, two daughters who became adults, and several children who were born dead or died shortly after birth. Which also happened with Joseph & Emma, as I recall. So maybe Joseph and Henry were just not very fertile, despite their sex drives?

Please, tell them that JS would be ignoring his own Doctrine and Covenants that explains the reason for polygamy was FOR having babies...How many babies are produced with out sex in that age?

There have been a few reports with his wives that claimed they had sex with JS.

All the prophets after JS had sex with their wives, so why wouldn't JS?


So naive...

Did Joseph Smith father any children from his polygamous wives?
Stake President Angus Cannon also testified: "I will now refer you to one case where it was said by the girl's grandmother that your father [Joseph Smith] has a daughter born of a plural wife. The girl's grandmother was Mother Sessions . . . She was the grand-daughter of Mother Sessions. That girl, I believe, is living today, in Bountiful, north of this city. I heard prest. Young, a short time before his death, refer to the report . . . The woman is now said to have a family of children, and I think she is still living." (Stake President Angus M. Cannon, statement of interview with Joseph III, 25-26, LDS archives.)


Faithful Mormon and wife of Joseph Smith, Sylvia Sessions (Lyon), on her deathbed told her daughter, Josephine, that she (Josephine) was the daughter of Joseph Smith. Josephine testified: "She (Sylvia) then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith, she having been sealed to the Prophet at the time that her husband Mr. Lyon was out of fellowship with the Church." (Affidavit to Church Historian Andrew Jenson, 24 Feb. 1915)


In her testimony given at a Brigham Young University devotional, Faithful Mormon Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner stated that she knew of children born to Smith's plural wives: "I know he [Joseph Smith] had six wives and I have known some of them from childhood up. I know he had three children. They told me. I think two are living today but they are not known as his children as they go by other names." (Read her full BYU testimony here: http://www.ldshistory.net/pc/merlbyu.htm)


Faithful Mormon Prescindia D. Huntington, who was Normal Buell's wife and simultaneously a "plural wife" of the Prophet Joseph Smith, said that she did not know whether her husband Norman "or the Prophet was the father of her son, Oliver." And a glance at a photo of Oliver shows a strong resemblance to Emma Smith's boys. (Mary Ettie V. Smith, "Fifteen Years Among the Mormons", page 34; also Fawn Brodie "No Man Knows My History" pages 301-302, 437-39)


Researchers have tentatively identified eight children that Joseph Smith may have had by his plural wives. Besides Josephine Fisher (b. Feb. 8, 1844) and Oliver Buell, named as possible children of Joseph Smith by his plural wives are John R. Hancock (b. Apr. 19, 1841), George A. Lightner (b. Mar. 12, 1842), Orson W. Hyde (b. Nov. 9, 1843), Frank H. Hyde (b. Jan 23, 1845), Moroni Pratt (b. Dec. 7, 1844), and Zebulon Jacobs (b. Jan 2, 1842). ("Mormon Polygamy: A History" by LDS Historian Richard S. Van Wagoner, pages 44, 48- 49n3.)


There is another piece of evidence you might consider in examining Joseph Smith's sexual behavior. The following excerpt is from a love letter Joseph Smith wrote when he wanted to arrange a liaison with Newel K. Whitney's daughter Sarah Ann, whom Smith had secretly "married." It reveals Smith's cloak-and-dagger approach to his extramarital affairs:
"... the only thing to be careful of; is to find out when Emma comes then you cannot be safe, but when she is not here, there is the most perfect safty. ... Only be careful to escape observation, as much as possible, I know it is a heroick undertakeing; but so much the greater friendship, and the more Joy, when I see you I will tell you all my plans, I cannot write them on paper, burn this letter as soon as you read it; keep all locked up in your breasts, my life depends upon it. ... I close my letter, I think Emma wont come tonight if she dont, dont fail to come to night, I subscribe myself your most obedient, and affectionate, companion, and friend. Joseph Smith." - Joseph Smith Handwritten Letter,

http://www.xmission.com/~research/family/strange.htm

The Book of Mormon (Jacob 2:30) says that the ONLY purpose for polygamy would be to "raise up seed."

You can't "raise up seed" if you don't have sex.

Therefore JS MUST have been having sex with his "wives". Otherwise he would have been in violation of the BoM.

He is rumored to have been a ladies man. How many illegitimate children claim him as father?

Honestly I feel this is a straw man argument. How many children did Brigham Young provably father? And all the other church leaders of the time. Joey may have started polygamy, but he sure as hell didn't finish it.

To me that sidesteps the issue because what is really disturbing is the cases where he pulled rank and was sealed to women who were already married to worthy priesthood holders.

Sure. Here you go:

1. The Book of Mormon (Jacob 2:26-30) says that the ONLY reason that God sometimes approves polygamy is to "raise up seed unto me". If JS didn't try to "raise up seed", then he was disobeying God's command in the very scripture HE translated.

2. Emily Dow Partridge Young (one of JS plural wives) testified under oath that she had "roomed" with JS and that they had engaged in "carnal intercourse" (Temple Lot Case, cited in Compton, "In Sacred Loneliness", pp. 12-13, 637)

3. Melissa Lott Willis testified under oath that she had been JS wife "in very deed." (Affidavit of Melissa Willis, August 3, 1893; Temple Lot Case 98, 105.)

4. When Eliza R. Snow was asked by Heber C. Kimball wether or not she was still a virgin, she replied "I thought you knew Joseph better than that." (Compton, p. 13).

As others have said, it would have directly gone against God's "raise up righteous seed" command to NOT have children, and, as God's chosen prophet with the Red Phone to heaven, that would have been a major no-no for JS to disobey. Some apologists say the sealings were simply "loose dynastic ties" and point out that JS was sealed to some men as well, but that makes it sound even more creepy-culty to me--the Joseph Smith Dynasty?? Being sealed to other men probably meant they were making a pinky promise not to divulge the polygamy/polyandry scam; after all, the first garment marks were cut into the actual flesh (doesn't THAT sound creep-culty!?).

Perhaps apologists will spin it to say that "raising up" doesn't mean "procreating", but they still fly in the face of what the "revelation" plainly states.

And the question then would be, why is Joseph Smith the EXCEPTION to the rule? All the other "righteous" polygamist Mormon leaders like Brigham Young had children with their plural wives (including during the time Smith was alive).

I don't understand the point of arguing that JS didn't have sex with his other wives. Are they saying no LdS polygamists had sex with their other wives? Seriously, it was a commandment from god or not. If it was, it wasn't a sin. Why argue they didnt have sex?

The gospel is true, and it doesn't matter about point A, B, or C, because you see subpoint A-2 might be invalid and HEY LOOK OVER THERE A THREE HEADED MONKEY!

And that's proof of the gospel.

Why didn't he have children or no strong evidence of it?

1) He married a lot of women but he did so in a very short period of time, so its not like he had 5-10 years to get them all pregnant.

2) At this point in time, polygamy was done in utmost secrecy. Not even the majority of Mormons knew about the polygamy. He did not live with most of his wives and so he would have to sneak over to where they lived to have sex with them. Not only that but his own wife was not down with his polygamy. So he somehow had to keep his relations secret from nearly everyone including his own wife.

3) These were very turbulent times for the Mormons, especially Joseph Smith. He was the leader and I'm sure he was very pre-occupied with other matters. Its not like he had a leisurely life. He probably had to squeeze in any time he had for Emma, let alone his other wives. Many of his days were spent out of town. So its not like he was shacking up every night.

4) He was in his late 30's early 40's. His sperm count may have drastically gone down at this point.

5) Just because you have sex, doesn't mean you will get pregnant. Some couples try to get pregnant and have a difficult time doing so. The chances are only something like 10% (?).

6) He may have assumed he was not going to be killed, so he at least wanted to "secure" these women for sex but never got around to it.

7) He may have used the pullout method.

8) Maybe he didn't want to get them pregnant. You can still do a lot of other things which are pleasurable that aren't intercourse.

9) Some of his wives were older, they may not have been fertile.

10) Some of his wives were with other men, so they may have been already pregnant or the children may have been easily mistaken as the other man's.

11) Maybe he was a "been there, done that" kinda guy, where once he succeeds in having sex with a woman, he's lost all interest in her. So he may have only had sex with his wives once.

Ex-CultMember Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> 7) He may have used the pullout method.

Condoms were known long before Joseph Smith.

The amazing thing about this is that it's an old anti-Mormon
argument that is now being used by Mormons!

All during his life Joseph Smith never admitted publicly about
the polygamy. At the time Joseph Smith was practicing it the
D&C section 101 stated:

"Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the
crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe,
that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one
husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to
marry again."

That section was published in the 1835 edition of the D&C and
stayed there until long after JS's death. So, all his polygamy
was contrary to the then LDS scriptures.

Not only did Joseph Smith lie about the practice of polygamy,
but he trashed the reputations of those whose only "crime" was
to tell the truth about him: Martha Brotherton, Nancy Rigdon,
and Sarah Pratt. All three were publicly called names by
Joseph and his circle of secret-polygamist henchmen after
turning down JS's polygamous advances and going public.

When JS died there was no accepted method for determining who
would be the new leader. In LDS history this is called the
"Succession crisis of 1844." Many went with James Strang.
Others went with Brigham Young. Some even stayed behind.
Later many of those who didn't go west started the
"Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints" with
Joseph's son as the president.

By this time Brigham Young's group way out in Utah had come
clean and admitted that they'd been practicing polygamy for a
decade or more and lying about it. They published what is now
section 132 of the D&C. The Reorganized Church responded by
saying that the accusations that Joseph practiced polygamy
were a lie, and that he only had sex with Emma (this is what a
lot of Utah Mormons are saying now). They claimed that the
whole polygamy thing was started by Brigham Young and that he
lied when he said Joseph started it.

The Utah church took offense at such an accusation so the
Church leaders rounded up all of Joseph Smith's remaining
"widows" and had them swear out affidavits that they had been
his plural wives "in very deed."

So now it's come full circle. The Utah Mormons are using as a
defense, something that used to be called an attack on the
Church by apostates.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2013 09:35PM by baura.

I can't believe this thread is so long that no one mentioned ----



Condoms.



Smith was practicing polygamy in secret. If he got anyone but Emma pregnant it would be problematic. Why does no one not draw the logical conclusion that he used condoms? Sure they occasionally fail and he could have needed the services of his private abortionist Dr. Bennett as noted above, but mostly he prevented pregnancy with the women he was not legally married to by using birth control.

Ex-Cult Member is getting close. JS wanted to DOMINATE, period. Once he established he was Top Dog in any relationship, he was on to the next. Man, woman, one or many, didn't matter. Remember, this con-man called himself president, prophet, god, the anointed one, and other titles that would allow him to plow under any opposition. Threatened to destroy his wife if she didn't back off. She backed off. He was not a nice guy. Attacked by a militia unit in 1844, he shot as many as he could before they offed him. Religion was the most powerful force in his lifetime, so he used it to Dominate. End of story.

Thank you for all your repsonses.

Some of them made me feel stupid for not thinking of them straight away. I guess when I am faced with one side of the story containing 'evidence', I need to think and research before I assume I have 'got in wrong' and the other side is correct.
I think I still have a lot of conditioning in me to believe what 'mormons' say.
Bear with me..... I am learning and getting there!

Love you RFM x

Yup. Think outside the box. You don't have to just accept people's answers.

the mo book rough stone rolling has the quote in it where JS said one of his wives 'afforded him much pleasure' to one of the early church leaders.

Eliza (Snow?) was a devout Mormon.

At age 38, she became Joseph Smith's 14th plural wife (in addition to Smith's lawful wife, Emma).

In 1842, after learning Eliza was pregnant, Emma Smith beat Eliza with a broomstick and knocked her down a flight of stairs, causing Eliza to miscarry Smith's baby.

Anyone here able to verify this?

Has any DNA testing been done on known JS descendants?

132:41: Joseph has asked God: “Am I committing adultery?” i.e. he was having sexual relations other than with his legal wife Emma Smith.

132:63: “They are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth.” To “multiply” indicates that the purpose of the union is reproduction. Sex.

If he didn't have sex with them, then he was going against the very purpose of God's (sic) revelation to him.