It's interesting how the Mormon Programming runs deep even with those who left the church.

My wife and I were visiting with a lesbian couple of ours. Both are ex-Mo, or at least claim to be. They met in college in Utah and have been together for 11 years now (planning on getting married this year). They are both very liberal, feminist, live in San Francisco, etc.

So we are talking about a friend of ours, who is supposedly bi-sexual (another ex-Mo) but has only dated guys but never seems happy with any of them. One of the girls suggested she should just try and date women to see if she would have better luck, and the other said she has too much Mormon baggage to do so. That she doesn't want to disappoint her Mo parents by being with a girl, etc.

I made the comment of how I swear she is still a Mormon secretly, just by some of the comments she makes. She still seems to place a lot of trust and confidence in LDS priesthood authorities. Like she accepted an LDS roommate after it was suggested by her old Bishop. She went to LDS counseling for her issues. When I mentioned how Joseph Smith changed one of his revelations (the Oliver Cowdery "rod" revelation), she asked me which book I got this from. I mentioned it was Michael Marquardt's book, a respected historian on Mormonism. She then asked me if he was Mormon. I said he used to be. She then gave me a suspicious look and made some comment about how you can't trust other people writing about Mormon history unless they are Mormon historians.

Then one of the girls ("Amy") I was visiting with DEFENDED her claim. She said you can't trust non-Mormons with the history. That they are biased and have a tendency to only say "bad" things about the church and how Mormons hold their history much more seriously and are more "careful" with it, etc.

We later got talking about gay rights and the church and Amy's girlfriend figured the church will eventually change their stance and allow gays to marry in the temple. Then Amy said, "there's no way that will happen, it goes against the whole plan of salvation, blah, blah, blah..."

I started going off about how the church would most certainly change if it was causing them too many problems. I pointed out how they change their teachings & doctrines all the time and how they can just say they received "further light & knowledge" and how the church "wasn't ready yet" to accept gays. She was mostly quiet during all this as she was not liking what she was hearing.

Later on we started talking about the temple ceremonies. Her girlfriend was really interested in hearing about the "secret handshakes" and so forth, but I could tell Amy was not feeling comfortable about the topic. So I asked everyone if they were fine if I explained what happened in the ceremony, to which Amy replied,"I don't want to hear it! You guys can talk about by yourselves some other time but out of respect for my parents I don't want to hear about."

Its just crazy how deep this Mormon programming runs among people, even those who have left.

Whatever she may claim, she hasn't left.

Yep...she might avoid the Morg to avoid the guilt trip, but she's no 'Ex-' Mormon.

Sometimes it's surprising who believes mormonism.

I have a very Tattooed longtime friend (from Ut County) with pierced nipples that totally Freaked out at me when I told him the church wasn't true. I was shocked because I was expecting the opposite reaction from him.

It took quite a while and a few discussions to get him to understand, then it was so awesome because he was able to feel less guilty about his life !!!

Yup, many people including ourselves, assume that many people aren't Mormon anymore simply because they don't go to church, practice the faith, and/or act/talk/appear Mormon. You'd be surprised how many of these people are still believers in the church, at least to some superficial level.

I think these two friends of mine "mostly" don't believe in it, but its amazing how they still hold certain views on it, like you can only trust faithful, Mormons historians to write the history of Mormonism.

You have to have special training to hold the bubble that is Mormon history. One false move and it will burst, taking billions of dollars with it.


Anagrammy

Yep, one of my best friends from childhood is gay. He came out a few years ago and has since been shunned by almost everyone we know. Of his Mo friends, he has only kept in contact with me and DH (no longer Mo, of course). He hasn't been to church in ages and has had a few serious partners. He seems to be doing well and finding happiness now.

However,last week, after the DOMA ruling, I asked him how he felt about it. He said "Actually, I think the church is spot on with their views on homosexuality." ??? huh???? I don't know how this is possible. I told him "Well, for what its worth, I love you, I don't think there's anything "wrong" with you, and I think you'd be a kick-ass father, if you wanted to be."

He hasn't spoken to me since. Its just like the Mormon mentality of "stay away from apostates! they'll lead you straight to hell!" Of all the things I never thought I would lose a friend over...

We are computers made of meat and these evil bastards downloaded viruses into our soft minds.

You need to scrub your hard drive.