Sorry, this is off topic, but i was kind of inspired by all the sex drive posts. Well, sorta different, but here goes...

I'm a PhD candidate, and teach classes (not at any of the BYUs). There's a really cute girl in my class and I can't stop thinking about her. Funny thing is, she's really short (I'd estimate about 4'10") and I'm pretty tall (6'4"). I get the feeling she kind of likes me too, and the semester will be over soon so I think I'm gonna try to get together with her.

Anyway, I have some questions for you ladies:
-did you ever date or hookup with a teacher or professor?
-what did you do to express your interest?
-how did he let you know he was interested in you?

I believe it's unprofessional to start a relationship while she is still your student. So, I would suggest talking to her on the last day of class, tell her you've enjoyed seeing her in there and asking if she would give you her phone number. After the grades are all submitted, then give her a call to see if she'd like to go out.

If she smiles at you when you talk to her after that last class and gives you the number, that's a great sign. If she looks uncomfortable (not just shy), just let her go easily. She may be in another relationship.

Don't worry about the height difference.

I would never do the hookup, that's just shitting where you eat. A real relationship would be fine, but beware all the issues that come with it -- mostly in the forms of other students and colleagues.

Side note: I've had so many bad relationships that even reading the OP made me sick. How's that for conditioning?

From your tone/attitude which Girl would like to approach you?

When the semester is over you are no longer her teacher and you are both adults. Good luck.

As a junior and senior in college, I had a MASSIVE crush on one of my professors. He was 9 years older than I was, and struck me as incredibly bright, witty, just all-round terrific.

It also turned out that he was gay. There was no joy in Mudville when I learned about THAT, lemme tell ya.

Fast forward: I was noodling around on a website and darned if this ex-professor wasn't on it too. I took a chance on writing, sharing happy memories about funny things from his classes and the parties he often invited students to at his apartment.

He wrote back, and we've been corresponding for a few years now. I let him know right off that I was very happily married, but it was more about sharing stories about the many interests we have in common and bringing each other up to date on our lives over the past 40 or so years.

When he and his partner of 32 years were able to legally marry, he sent me pictures of the wedding - I felt only joy for their obvious happiness. The crush from so many years ago has turned into a deep and genuine friendship.

I hooked up with a professor once, but he was not MY professor. Just a friend of a friend kind of deal.

I advise waiting until the end of the term, AFTER grades have been turned in. And then maybe shoot her an email asking her out for coffee or drinks or something casual. Make no mention of the class. Be casual at first and find out if she will be taking more classes that YOU teach. IOW, if you teach in her major and she's got three more classes to go and you teach two of those sections, then a relationship would be inappropriate. If she took your class as a one-off kind of thing, requirement is now checked off the list, wait until after finals & grades and go for it.

Avoid the appearance of evil.

ETA: You didn't specifically ask about this, but you brought it up, so it must be on your mind. The height disparity thing.

I am 5' 2". I do not date anyone over 6' tall. The reason for that is because sexy times can be uncomfortable and the number of positions that are comfortable for BOTH is extremely limited. I prefer men that "fit" me better. So for me, the height disparity is a dealbreaker. But that is not very common; most women do not care at all. Maybe they know about positions I don't or something. It's just a preference thing, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. She might have a thing for really tall guys and BOOM you're in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2014 09:05AM by dogzilla.

I'm also a professor (although female).

First, check your university's policy on faculty/student relationships. The policies can vary widely; some institutions don't care as long as the student is not taking any courses from you, while at others, you can get fired immediately even for asking for the phone number or suggesting a coffee date.

Personally, I'd never date a student, even if there was a lot of mutual attraction and relationship potential. You're complicating life for this poor student, because she won't be able to take any more classes from you ever, even after the relationship ends, or both of you could face academic review. It could get ugly.

If you decide it's not working out and she's unhappy about the breakup, she could accuse you of sexual harrassment, go public about your relationship, use social media to embarrass you, or any number of other actions (none of which would end well for you). At the very least, you'll get a reputation as "that" professor. Which leads to the career complications...

Since you're not tenure-track at this stage, beware department politics and gossip -- there could be a lot of backlash no matter what's actually going on. Unless you're someplace like UCBerkeley (that bastion of liberalism and academic excellence -- not meant sarcastically because I really do think they're awesome), there's a good chance your colleagues will take a dim view of the relationship. Then there are those lovely "Rate My Professor" reviews. Department heads and chairs do read them when it's time to make re-hiring decisions.

If you are let go, good luck finding a job elsewhere. If I were you, I would stop right now.

Thanks for the replies and warnings everyone, but I've already considered the risks and consequences and understand the dynamic. Anyway, I'm a student myself. I've dated students before--although not "my" students. My own advisor, who was department chair, and is now associate dean of the school in which I study, told me not to worry about it. Who are my peers for dating? The middle-aged profs teaching English or Journalism? Or my fellow students? I'll go with the latter, thank you very much. Also, for what it's worth, I'm not going to be teaching again for a while. I've done it for several semesters, and it's just too time consuming--I like it, get good reviews, students seem to like me, but I need to focus on research and writing my dissertation.

Anyway, what I was really looking for was some feedback on stuff like behavior and body language, I guess, to make sure I'm not misinterpreting anything. So maybe I should describe some of that rather than asking ladies to describe their own experience, and let you respond to that.

I'm teaching two sections of the same class this semester. A few weeks ago, I pointed out that people can attend either if they need to miss class for some reason but can make the other. She's in the afternoon section, but started coming to the morning section. Funny thing is, she keeps coming to the afternoon section too. In other words, she comes twice. In most semesters, I try to keep my examples "fresh" and different, but when I can't think of a better one I'll reuse my old material. There's a high rate of failure in my field, and in the afternoon section I have a couple of repeat students, so I might say "some of you have heard this before" to preface those times. Funny thing is, she'll grin as if I'm saying it for her benefit, since she heard it in the morning lecture. She smiles a lot. At everything, my good jokes, bad jokes, etc. It's a tough class, and I try to keep it light and as entertaining as I can, but I'm not as entertaining as her responses would make it seem. She laughs and giggles at almost anything I say.

She comes up to ask some sort of question after class, almost every lecture. Clarifications about assignments, lecture points, obvious stuff. Not at the beginning of the semester, but more and more frequently as it's gone on. And she gets what might otherwise be uncomfortably close. I've had creepy students "chase" me around: they step in, I step back, they step in, I step back… But when this girl steps in I hold my ground, and she seems very comfortable there, as am I.

During exams, I move around the room to answer questions as needed, but try to get down and sort of whisper, or I might lean in and turn my ear to hear them better. During the midterm exam, she called me to ask a question, and I did just that, but when I turned back to answer, she was so close that my head kind of hit hers. Not a "clunk," but there was definitely hair brushing contact. I said I was sorry, and she said "it's ok." I said "I don't hear so well" (which is true), and she said "it's no problem" while kind of bending her hand at the wrist to dismiss it. A little later she called me back a second time, and I put my hand on the desk to steady myself as I kneeled down. She reached out and put her hand on my forearm and pulled herself in towards me. We were very close again. She called me back a third time, so I did something I don't ever do: I put my hand on her shoulder after I kneeled down. She turned and leaned into me again. The first question was legit. The second one, maybe, but the third "clarification" was dubious (not that I minded), so I said "you're on the right track here, doing fine." She just smiled, within inches of my face. I'm describing it sort of matter-of-factly, but there were sparks flying, at least for me. And I can't help but think she just called me back to call me back. Frankly, she's a very good student and has earned nothing but A's so far (no bias--I have a TA who grades assignments, and exams are departmental and no one grades their own section).

In the last couple of weeks I've noticed her more around the department area, working at desks or tables nearby. She smiles and/or waves when I go by. I guess she's coming up more and more on my radar. Well, she's been on my radar, but she's turning up more and more.

That's sort of the stuff I've been noticing up until today. After the lecture this morning she comes up to tell me that she won't be there for the afternoon lecture. That's odd--you come to one because you can't make the other, right? Except that she's been coming to both. "Ok," I tell her, "thanks for letting me know." She says that she usually works nights at [restaurant] but she's gonna be working this afternoon and can't make it to class. "I love that place" (slight exaggeration). "I'm surprised I've never seen you there." She says she's only been there about a month. After a split second I lie: "I'm actually meeting a friend there this afternoon. Maybe I'll see you." She didn't say anything, just smiled, tilted her head to one side and turned to leave. When she got to the door she turned back and made a cute little wave, and then disappeared! At this point, the room was basically cleared out, except for a retired guy who often hangs around to talk, and whom I like very much. I guess I'd just been staring at the girl exiting the room, because he started chuckling after she left and he stood up. I kind of laughed and said "sorry," to which he said "no need to apologize. You'd be a fool not to be there for lunch today."

So, am I crazy, or are there sparks flying between me and this girl?

Anyway, no harm in lunch. There’s only one more week of lecture, then exams. I'm about to head to my afternoon lecture, but I've rounded up a friend to meet me for lunch, and that's where I'm going after class…

Unless you are teaching thermodynamics or organic chemistry or something, I can't think of any reason a student would attend the same class twice every day other than she wants your peen.

;>)

Wait -- what's her grade in your class so far? Could she be grade-grubbing? Disregard if she's got a high B or an A.

I know I wouldn't blow a prof for an A, but I knew plenty of girls who weren't above such shenanigans.

it was in the 1980s at ___ State University, in a three year masters program attached to a professional service credential, where they admitted 40 students to the first year and had them all compete through practicums for a set of only 12 internships- which were needed, to complete the program.

One of the students admitted, sitting at the table in the graduate courses along side the professor teaching the class, was his second or third wife. AWKWARD

They had a young child. AWKWARD

Every class she was in, however she was dressed compared to the rest, even if she came late, she was addressed by the other graduate professors in the program as a peer not a student. Offensive, not just awkward. Sexual sleeping priveliges earned a prostitute for position, graduate advisors & interns & competition which she earned on her back & on her knees.

You really think 30 years later I think or anyone ELSE thinks her test scores & her academic skills were up to par?

unprofessional of her. who could trust ever trust her academic references or her actual skills forever who knows of it? Why buy the degree? putting in the time non academcially? unprofesisonal of him? of his dept chair? legal? who knows. Would it happen in 2014? I hope not.

oh _ that's how it looks to everyone else.

he slept with her, attended parties with her while she was a student at the university he was teaching in- during the time she majored in HIS department-
then she had a child & they married- while she was a grad student in HIS department-

who is lacking credibility here? in a small department within a medium size university? & the message is --ta da!-- sleep with or get on your knees for the professors at ____state, it'll be easier to get a graduate advisor or compete in, or graduate

Lighten up, peeps. The OP wants some advice, not to hear your rants about stuff that happened 30 years ago. Some of the above is unintelligible, but the rage is palpable.

The OP is a student himself, not some horny middle-aged tenured professor shacking up with students. He pointed out that the girl has good grades, etc. It's young love, not some maniacal woman trying to screw her way through a college course.

Dude, she's clearly into you. I say go for it, and lets know how it goes.

If you're running labs & are a teaching assistant= not a professor. If you are a professor or attempting to go for tenure- this is unprofessional.

TAs can't date students in their sections- their grades & their friends' grades become questionable.

The relationship until all grades are posted,
quoting my spouse, "everything that's professionalism is tainted" if flirtation hook up or relationship starts, all grades are questionable for the student & their friends. What about sexual harrassment allegations? Wait until the grades are in & be sure they aren't ever wanting another class in your major where you TA. & yes people do things to get grades, they get in relationships to see tests, to be tutored for answers they can't solve or memorize problems and writing prompts, for hints to which difficult parts not to study based on the final- all with TAs and some professors- a heads up on the test coming up, people want to score. Whole groups fraternities etc. share answers answer keys send members cruising for latest tests, questions, using relationships to get them. People spend how much money on tuition annually with living expenses? 30,000? Cornell is over 50,000 a year. That's a lot to blow or lose with failing or non competitive grades- probation, or losing future opportunities. People do cheat, they do even prostitute themselves trying to survive. This is real it's not naive.

And a TA running a section or a young professor is in a position of power- over 1/4 to 1/6 of that's entire life & their whole financial investment incurred for the semester or quarter. You can't mis use that power seeking something from your students you are there to serve- you represent your employer the University, not yourself socially.

Its too questionable. Everything has to wait until after the final scores are in. Perhaps others haven't family in academia at universities or attended recently. It could be a scandal- academics do get used, even if its true love it has to wait.

Hey, if your dept. head is OK with it...

From what you've described, yes, she wants to get something going. The restaurant mention was a big fat hint that you should show up there when she's working. Her body language and behavior clearly indicate interest. If there won't be any professional repercussions and you're not twice her age, go for it.

age mate intellectual equal peer in a appropriate social setting?"

"How dare you use a position of power and try to take advantage of students who depend on you for a passing grade *info about the test and everything* - you're opening of the doors of their very world their professional lives."

This is painting again: Why can't you find someone who will talk to you at a party like the rest of us? Why are you using a position of power and authority to come down from and move to a weaker student level person for your pick up? What's the matter with you- why can't you find someone who is your equal in a social setting?

Good grief, paintingintheWin...take a chill pill! Your screed is overwhelming. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you didn't end up with one of those internships all those years ago.
Why are you reading so much into this? Someone to talk to at a party? He already said his peers are other students. Like a couple others have indicated, I'm also a professor, with tenure, very near retirement in fact. I've never fooled around with my students, because when I was younger I formed appropriate, healthy relationships, like it would seem this young man is trying to do. Several folks have indicated that dating after the course is complete is ok. The OP says it's done in a week plus exams. He says he doesn't grade her work or exams. The exams are departmemtal, so he may not even know what's on it either. His advisor says its ok. In fact, it sounds like this school has a good handle on exactly this situation. Young people are going to be attracted to one another. That's life. Who are you to accuse this young man of using his "power?" What power? He's a lowly graduate student, for crying out loud, I'd guess at most 4 or 5 years older than her (since he's pre-dissertation). She hasn't offered her virtue for a grade, and he hasn't offered a grade for her virtue! It sounds like two nervous kids who took the better part of a semester to work up the courage to smile and wave at each other (gasp)! You need to let go of whatever is eating at you, and you shouldn't be projecting the crimes of your "offender" on to this guy. The OP just doesn't sound that sinister. Honestly, would an evil SOB who was going to use his "power" to have his way with someone come to an ex-mormon board and ask "do you think she likes me?"

obviously dont care about academic ethics anymore

whwn a grade means something, and tas arent compromising tests finals. entry into grad school, medical sch, even education have gpa cut offs. how could something so important be triviolized or compromised?

soon to retire prof why dont you retire now if your this apathetic about academic ethics?

Husband says: "don't adopt credibility when you haven't paid your dues
That's the way I feel about it, his adopting such a name. All that is is wishful thinking."

"Once you've worn the sash and cowl then you've earned the title. Anything else is purely dreaming a whisper in the wind"

Show some balls and ask her out.

Be a man

She likes you. It is over the top obvious. Have fun getting to know her. 'Nuff said. :)

I know this is not what you're asking for, but I'll say it anyways. Don't do it.

This is based on my personal experience from being the undergrad that dated the TA. He ended up being horribly abusive towards me. Long story. But you might want to examine yourself on why you're attracted to someone you hold some power over. Don't become that type of person.

Oh, and I've worked for over a decade at a university. Even if it's ok from an administrative/rules point of view, it can still backfire and cause major problems that no one wants to deal with or go through. I've seen some cases and had a close call with another one not related to my evil ex-husband.

Anyways, I know I'm not giving too many details - but it's the lessons that need to be learned - preferably not first hand. Just trust me on this - do not do it. There should be plenty of other grad students on campus - go for those. And again, possibly examine why you're attracted to someone that is your student in the first place.

I also wanted to add - I've also taught classes as a grad student. I had students keep attending past the cut-off date for dropping the class even though they had no chance of passing with their grades. I asked one why - it was because they needed to pass the class at some point to earn their degree. I was able to explain the material in a way that they understood. They were getting the base information so that they can build on it and pass the next semester. Might be another explanation for why she's attending both classes. Making sure to understand the material to pass and/or earn a good grade in the class.

ForgotMyPassword Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good grief, paintingintheWin...take a chill pill!
> <…snip…>
> The OP just doesn't
> sound that sinister. Honestly, would an evil SOB
> who was going to use his "power" to have his way
> with someone come to an ex-mormon board and ask
> "do you think she likes me?"


Thanks for coming to my defense, ForgotMyPassword.

So, lunch went pretty well yesterday! It was nice to spend a little time with Jennifer (don't think I posted her name before). Of course she was working, but was friendly and kept coming by our table. After a while, she said her break was coming up and asked if we'd mind if she sat with us then. When she returned my friend announced that he had somewhere else to be and politely excused himself.

I won't bore you with the blow-by-blow of the conversation…yet. ;) But I want to address some of the comments above.

Why can't I wait until the semester's over? Well, technically I am, but at the same time, time is of the essence. For all I know, she might fly home to who-knows-where the day after the exam, and be gone the whole summer. I don't want to miss a great opportunity, and I don't want her to come back in the Fall dating some other guy, or perhaps never come back at all. I have only a small window of opportunity, and I don't want to miss it. So I wanted to find out her Summer plans, where she lives, etc. Also, speaking of other guys, I kind of wanted to know if she's dating someone already, before I make a fool of myself. So, "I hope your boyfriend won't mind you sitting here with me," followed by "I'm not dating anyone," cleared that up. Anyway, when I figured her break was coming to an end, I said something like "I'd really like to get to know you better, but I can't ask you out until the semester ends. So, don't be surprised if I come looking for you after the semester ends." She responded that she knows the rules, and would never date her professor anyway, but wouldn't mind running into me after the semester ends. In other words, she understands, but is also lock-step in sync with me. Just one more thing I like about her (more on this later). So, we clearly have an understanding, but haven't broken any rules. Another example of the kind of person she is and why I find her so attractive: when she brought my credit card slip back, she had written a zero on the tip line and totaled it, so I wasn't in the awkward position of wondering if I needed to leave a "good" tip or whatever. And on the customer copy, she wrote her phone number and personal email address, so I can easily contact her.

So, why do I like her? Why am I attracted to a "student?" Why don't I find someone to talk to at a party?
Well, I'm not attracted to her because she's a student. I'm attracted to her because of who she is. She comports herself differently than most students. Dresses differently than most students. Is more well-spoken than other students. In other words, she IS the woman I'd approach at a party--I just happened to meet her in class instead of at a party. She also works harder than most students, and it's reflected in her performance. Speaking of her performance, I don't grade her work, as I said above (but the shrillest protester here isn't reading details, only leaping to conclusions). I hold no power over her. And as ForgotMyPassword speculated, I don't even know what's on the exams. A full-time faculty member acts as course coordinator, and puts together assignments and exams for the rest of us who teach the classes. He explains the objectives behind everything for those of us who are still learning--it's very much a journymen/apprentice kind of thing. I hold no "power" over anyone. I'm just the putz who delivers the lectures. I enjoy it. And it's good experience. But I wield no "power."

> Husband says: "don't adopt credibility when you
> haven't paid your dues
> That's the way I feel about it, his adopting such
> a name. All that is is wishful thinking."

My school doesn't have a provision for students to teach, and very few students do (another reason I don't have teaching "peers"). We teach as adjunct professors, which is what my contract says: "adjunct professor." Most students call me Professor so-and-so. Some call me Mr. so-and-so. I don't personally care, but I'm not "adopting credibility." Frankly, I'm just making up an online ID, which is hardly legally binding. Besides, it's not wishful thinking. I'm well on my way through my course of study, and I'm teaching, which is one of the definitions of "professor" (look it up).

> "Once you've worn the sash and cowl then you've
> earned the title. Anything else is purely dreaming
> a whisper in the wind"

This is another misnomer. "PhD" does not equal "Professor." Many college professors do not have PhDs, and many people have PhDs and choose to work in industry rather than teach. You're equating a job title with a degree, and that's a gross oversimplification.

> This is based on my personal experience from being
> the undergrad that dated the TA. He ended up
> being horribly abusive towards me.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say he didn't treat you horribly BECAUSE he was a TA. He did so because he was a jerk. He probably mistreated women he met outside the classroom too. And most TA's are normal folks who don't behave that way. I'm sorry to hear that you had a bad experience, but I don't think it's reasonable to assume that will always be the case.

> I also wanted to add - I've also taught classes as
> a grad student. I had students keep attending
> past the cut-off date for dropping the class even
> though they had no chance of passing with their
> grades. I asked one why - it was because they
> needed to pass the class at some point to earn
> their degree. I was able to explain the material
> in a way that they understood. They were getting
> the base information so that they can build on it
> and pass the next semester.

I'm in lock step with you here. I even let them continue to attend if they do drop. I figure they've paid their tuition, and might as well get the most out of it, even if it's only to help them pass the next time around.

> Even if it's ok from an
> administrative/rules point of view, it can still
> backfire and cause major problems that no one
> wants to deal with or go through.

I've taught several hundred students by now, including the sections for which I was a TA. I was involved in a student conduct investigation when I had done nothing wrong--just had the unfortunate circumstance in which a crazy student enrolled in my class. That student was expelled, and I'm still teaching. Some people are just gonna make trouble no matter what, or when (sometimes 30 years after the fact…). If you try to live your life based on what "might" happen, you're gonna miss a lot of life.

> you're opening of the doors of their very world
> their professional lives

Ok, the 1960's are over. This is the 21st century. I'm not a self-important fool who thinks I'm shaping my students into who they will become, and I wouldn't deign to believe so. My students are smart and self-actualized. They've made their choices, and I'm lucky enough to be standing on the side of the road as they navigate the process of earning their degrees. My students have chosen to learn modern skills that will put them in the position of being in demand in the work force. The professional world (i.e. the real world) opens the doors of opportunity. We don't get touchy feely about who we are, or who we should be. That's up to them, their parents, their systems of belief, etc.

So, more stuff I found out. She's 26, and didn't go straight to college, which explains why she's more mature and comes across differently in so many ways than her classmates do. And the reason she "knows the rules" and wouldn't break them: it turns out that her dad is the Dean of Students. That's a little intimidating, right? But I think so much of this girl…so guess who I visited this morning? That's right…I took advantage of his open door policy. It seems he's heard all about me--apparently Jennifer has been talking about me at home. Anyway, he's ok with me dating his daughter. Guess what? He met Jennifer's mother when he was teaching as a graduate student. Funny how some things don't change. At least for "real" people, who haven't take vows of chasitity just because they're teaching, or who don't restrict their potential dates to other self-important stuffed-shirts they might meet at cocktail parties.

Ok, rant over… ;)

I'm on top of the world. I can't wait until exams are over. :D

Sounds like you've met your match! Good luck!

All the best to you! Good luck, it sounds like you have found a good match both in a career path and relationship wise, just see how these pan out as things develop.

Having been where you are as a professor that is a student but not reallya professor (universities like to over complicate this...), the title of professor is really being blown out of proportion by the previous poster, I don't need to tell you this. Academia is a rather confusing area until you are a couple years in to a graduate level program and realize how it all works. Then, suddenly, you understand why some PhDs talk so casually about titles and credentials, because to them it becomes meaningless, and they aren't trying to brag. It is a fact of life. It is easy to forget how it sounds to those who haven't seen through the facade yet.

"So, more stuff I found out. She's 26, and didn't go straight to college, which explains why she's more mature and comes across differently in so many ways than her classmates do. And the reason she "knows the rules" and wouldn't break them: it turns out that her dad is the Dean of Students. That's a little intimidating, right? But I think so much of this girl…so guess who I visited this morning? That's right…I took advantage of his open door policy. It seems he's heard all about me--apparently Jennifer has been talking about me at home. Anyway, he's ok with me dating his daughter. Guess what? He met Jennifer's mother when he was teaching as a graduate student. Funny how some things don't change. At least for "real" people, who haven't take vows of chasitity just because they're teaching, or who don't restrict their potential dates to other self-important stuffed-shirts they might meet at cocktail parties."

My opinion: You're fine. Green light from Daddy/DoS. Go for it. Enjoy. Best of luck!