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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: October 21, 2014 12:18AM

When it comes to acceptance of gays, the Pope possesses a moral sense of conscience-driven direction that the Mormon Cult's present leadership is light-years behind in. A recent example of that fact is found in media reports that the Pope had a hand in crafting an initial document released by the Vatican last Monday which extended a broad and welcoming hand of Catholic Church fellowship to gays and lesbians.

On this subject the Pope is, at his core, a good and caring guy:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/steve-benson/2014/10/20/steve-benson-pope-thumbs-up-gays/17646043/


But, alas, Francis has his work cut out for him. As in the Mormon Church, there are those who remain predictably allergic to such notions as equal justice and social progress.

From ABC News/Associated Press:

"After a draft report by bishops debating family issues came under criticism from many conservative English-speaking bishops, the Vatican released a new English translation on Thursday.'
"A section initially entitled 'Welcoming homosexuals' is now 'Providing for homosexual persons,' and the tone of the text is significantly colder. . . .

"The first version said homosexual unions can often constitute a 'precious support in the life of the partners.' The new one says gay unions often constitute 'valuable support in the life of these persons.' . . .

"The Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, said English-speaking bishops had requested the changes on the grounds that the first translation was hasty and error-ridden.

"When Lombardi was shown how significantly the meaning had changed, he pledged to investigate and didn't rule out a third version. Lombardi stressed that the original Italian remains the official text, and noted that the draft is being revised top-to-bottom for a final report which will go to a vote among bishops on Saturday."

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/vatican-alters-draft-report-translation-gays-26237209


From the Washington Post:

"Facing outrage from traditional Catholics, top clergy at a Vatican meeting on Thursday altered a document meant to guide future outreach to gays and lesbians, changing the goal of 'welcoming homosexual persons' to 'providing for homosexual persons.' . . .

"At a [same-day] news conference, Vatican officials released an updated English version of a document they’d made public Monday--a kind of summary of the key themes inside the meeting thus far. The section of the report on gays and lesbians was retitled and other words were changed.

"Monday’s version was titled 'Welcoming homosexual persons.' According to the Associated Press, it asked the church to provide gays a 'fraternal space' and said their unions constitute a 'precious support' for the partners. The new English version is entitled 'Providing for homosexual persons,' and speaks only of 'fellowship' and 'valuable support.'"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2014/10/16/vatican-document-on-outreach-to-glbt-edits-out-welcome-to-focus-
on-providing-for/
_____


Word has it that the Pope himself was involved in the release of the Vatican's initial, more gay-friendly document, given that he has become openly and increasingly concerned that many progressive Catholics are ignoring fundamental church doctrine on such social-justice issues as sex and marriage. Francis therefore recently brought together top Catholic bishops from around the world for a two-week council, with the intent of debating and developing more modern and inclusive revisions of bedrock Catholic church teachings. The conservative traditionalists would have nothing of it; hence, the watered-down revision.

But word also has it that the Pope isn't necessarily throwing in the towel. As evidence of that, he just demoted an outspoken anti-gay American Catholic bishop, known for his homophobic rhetoric.

From the BBC:

"A leading American cardinal has [confirmed] that he is to be demoted from his position running the Catholic Church justice system.

"Cardinal Raymond Burke is a staunch critic of Pope Francis' moves to soften the Church's stance on homosexuality. He said that he was to be moved to the far less senior post of patron of the sovereign military order of Malta.

"Pope Francis [recently led] a council in the Vatican on possible reforms to Church teaching on social issues. . . .

"For weeks, there had been rumors that the Pope would demote him, says the BBC's James Reynolds in Rome.

"Last year, a survey launched by Pope Francis suggested that the majority of Catholics rejected Church teaching on issues such as sex and contraception."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29669231

*****


Forget the traditional toxic Mormon notion that the Catholic Church is the "great and Abominable Church of the Devil." The Mormon Church is the Great and Abominable Church of the Bigots.

Today's Latter-day Saints could use a Pope Francis in their midst. And they shouldn't try to baptize him; rather,they should shut up and listen to him.



Edited 14 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2014 07:33PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: October 21, 2014 01:45AM

C'mon, steve. You, of all people, should realize that someone with this degree of intellect, education and compassion would never have made it to first base in the Mormon hierarchy.

(And please don't take this as a slur on your grandfather's memory. It isn't meant that way.)

Obviously, Papa Francesco is even rattling a number of Catholic cages. But I think that the world desperately needs a voice like his.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: October 21, 2014 04:21PM

. . . who has the courage of his convictions to try to change things for the better. For that, I applaud him.

Now, let's hope we see some long-overdue progress on equal rights for women in the Catholic Church. Not that the Pope can change that overnight. But he can begin a decent dialogue on the subject--unlike the current crop of crustaceans running the Mormon Cult who never met a new idea they didn't like.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2014 07:28PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: ccatnip ( )
Date: October 22, 2014 04:15AM


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Posted by: Claire Ferguson ( )
Date: October 21, 2014 11:56AM

Catnip, it's posts like yours that make me wish we had a 'like' button on RfM!

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: October 22, 2014 04:12AM

when I was visiting the UK in 2008!!

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: October 21, 2014 12:08PM

The POPE can't be found showing the world the kind of underwear he wears. It's a non issue and no PR is needed.

However, the mormons feel the need to describe the mystery panties that women wear. I can only see the cringe in a person's face when a non mo guy is talking to an attractive LDS girl that has been through the temple and KNOWS that she only wears attractive underwear during play time. Every other day, is ugly grandma bloomers day.

When Melissa, from accounting, walks into her Nebraska place of work, the co-workers, who know she's been through the temple, AND already know she wears garmies, but to have a church make a video about it..... just weird.

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: October 21, 2014 03:25PM

Someone on the other thread mentioned a certain mr Dale Jones.

Which harkened me back

as is my wont.....


Ballad Of A Thin Man

You walk into the room with your pencil in your hand
You see somebody naked and you say, "Who is that man?"
You try so hard but you don't understand
Just what you will say when you get home
Because something is happening here but you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

You raise up your head and you ask, "Is this where it is?"
And somebody points to you and says, "It's his"
And you say, "What's mine?" and somebody else says, "Well, what is?"
And you say, "Oh my God, am I here all alone?"
But something is happening and you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

You hand in your ticket and you go watch the geek
Who immediately walks up to you when he hears you speak
And says, "How does it feel to be such a freak?"
And you say, "Impossible!" as he hands you a bone
And something is happening here but you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

You have many contacts among the lumberjacks
To get you facts when someone attacks your imagination
But nobody has any respect, anyway they already expect you to all give a check
To tax-deductible charity organizations

Ah, you've been with the professors and they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well-read, it's well-known
But something is happening here and you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

Well, the sword swallower, he comes up to you and then he kneels
He crosses himself and then he clicks his high heels
And without further notice, he asks you how it feels
And he says, "Here is your throat back, thanks for the loan"
And you know something is happening but you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

Now, you see this one-eyed midget shouting the word "Now"
And you say, "For what reason?" and he says, "How"
And you say, "What does this mean?" and he screams back, "You're a cow!
Give me some milk or else go home"
And you know something's happening but you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

Well, you walk into the room like a camel, and then you frown
You put your eyes in your pocket and your nose on the ground
There ought to be a law against you comin' around
You should be made to wear earphones
'Cause something is happening and you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ_waVarlF4


Prophecy is where ya find it.

Mr Jones.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: October 21, 2014 07:24PM

Steve, as a born-and-raised Catholic, I waited a lifetime for a pope like this. My mom used to tell me about John XXIII, who appears to have been cut out of the same cloth. I also think that John Paul I may possibly have been such a man.

I knew from early on that this pope is more than up to the task of taking on the Curia, the entrenched papal bureaucracy. He is fearless. I love him. I hope that he holds the office for a good long chunk of time. He could bring some much-needed change to the Catholic church.

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