Like most, my first feeling was the Morg leadership is running scared. My second reaction was maybe they're thinking that if they get the issues out in the open, they'll lose borderline members, but the topics will soon be forgotten among the members.

After thinking about the timing...I'm wondering if a major defection is going on. Wouldn't it be amazing if a schism was in the works? The old hard-liners with the young turks? Boner.

I sure as f*** hope so. Threw that f-bomb in there for you boner :).

My early learning came from teachers.
Blacks will be the Servants in the Celestial Kingdom.
I am not that old?
Burn the books--most don't read them anyway.

I read and read and read (OCD?) about 1000 pages a week. When I started reading after high school and wanted to be an expert in Mormonisom, the information broke my heart.

I still tried to get my husband to convert (3 times) so we would fit in with the fraud.

Disclaimer: I was 20 when we got married. He never joined and we have been married 40 years this summer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2014 09:22PM by laurel.

Good thinkin boner.

We're counting on the Turks

To at least rattle the jerks.

Problem is, I can't find a Turk among the big 15. Maybe I'm mistaken on that.

It would be great to see a big schism though and TSCC go through a big upheaval, full disclosure, open discussion...but I'm not optimistic it will happen in my lifetime.

But it has really been a surprise to me for these essays to come out, especially the polygamy one. It is almost as though someone at the top pulled a boner on that last one.

This is damage control. They want to put their spin on the controversial issues and retrain the sheep with the new church info. By getting rid of the old they hope to eventually replace with new and thereby raise up a new clean generation to carry on the good work.

Yes, it's a good old fashioned book burning. Sounds a lot like 1933 Germany.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2014 10:16PM by michaelc1945.

The cynic in me keeps coming back to Mitt Romney in 2016.

I like that.

Isn't it the same mistake on a bigger scale?

For the church, it seems all publicity is bad publicity.

Romney in 165 would be a nightmare for them. he is what got them more exposure which is what is killing them. Not enough people knew the warts in 2008 or 2012. now imagine Romney being asked why he follows a pedophile prophet, was in a church leader5ship position etc... This is what he will face in 2016 and LDS inc just set this all up by this essay. I won't be seen as a bigoted question because this is from the church.

I think there's a shadow regime that's behind it. Lawyers? Maybe.

Yeah, Boner, I agree. As an observer, it's fascinating. I think it's an attempt to staunch the bleeding. Perhaps the church leaders are, figuratively speaking, looking to amputate the wounded member and the cauterize the bleeding.

I would echo the position that there are no Turks among the Big 15...not even Yuckdorf. Certainly, from their appearances at this past GC, it's clear Monson and Pecker aren't even coherent, so they aren't running the show...that still leaves little hope. Bednar or Christofferson as Turks? Nope. The First Quorum of the Seventies? I don't know enough about any 'em, but I don't see them having the power.

In the end, the essays will have been an attempt to keep the house of cards from collapsing, but one that actually hastens the day.

TSCC has 'more than adequately' shown they'll Spin Everything to suit the moment.

Even if they (GAs, COB) were to tender a reason as to 'Why Now', it wouldn't have ANY Cred, at least with us.

As usual, the TBMs would gobble it.

I've posted these thoughts a couple of times, so forgive me if I'm tedious. I'm vain enough to think that my thoughts are especially useful. The standard political disinformation protocol:

1) Release a LOT of information, mixing in parts of the truth, half truths, half lies, complete lies, true but extraneous facts. Make the fact pattern complex and ambiguous.

2) Add a mix of legal, ethical, and moral qualifications, such as "legal but not applicable by today's moral standards," "a common but unverified practice," etc.

3) Have your allies pick out things that are especially defensible Associate the most damning evidence with the most questionable facts, so they can be repudiated together.

4) Make sure your supporters have things they can cling to, and reasonable doubt about the negative stuff. This reasonable doubt will later become a distinct"not guilty" for the person you're defending.

5) Have your critics wallow in a mix of what will be dismissed as unsubstantiated facts ("Little is known/recorded/verified etc.") Slime your critics' character (hello, Gennifer Flowers!) and malign their motivations ("...was always an anti-Mormon")

6) Dismiss the whole thing as "old news," and state that it's time "to move on" and "focus on the positive."

Count on your supporters to be satisified that the matter "has been thoroughly dealt with," and that this just isn't discussed in polite company. Very few will consider the revelation as so damning they will repudiate the organization or, in this case, the prophet.

agreed and incisive


If the LDS Spin-Meisters were paid time-and-a-half -or- piecework, they'd all be Zillionaires now!

Excellent insights, Caffiend.

Zeniff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excellent insights, Caffiend.


And Bert.

All your points are spot on. I like your efficient writing.

"wanted to be an expert in Mormonisom, the information broke my heart" - Yes it broke your heart like all of us. But, on the plus side, you are somewhat of a CULT expert!

Problem is, I can't find a Turk among the big 15.
I can't find a pulse among the big 15!

I spoke with my TMB cousin. She'd rather be exposed to Ebola than to these essays. She told me that the CULT would NEVER incriminate itself by saying these contradicting things about itself.
She thinks that someone created a FAKE WEB SITE and are pretending to be the CULT's site.
She is calling her bishop to tell about this horror. I can't make this up!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2014 11:32PM by verilyverily.

while shes at the bishops, hide all the sharp objects

innoculation

Yes, for some, who won't really even read them, it's innoculation. They'll just know the essays are there and the church has "dealt with the issue." TSCC is counting on that.

For others, who are questioning, I'd have to think they'll read the essays, see the spin, and say, "WTF?" I think the essays will cause these to dig deeper.

I could be wrong, but, I think the essays will "hasten the work," alright. The work of leading people out of the cult.

I'm not suggesting this is the full reason for the essays but I definitely think Tom Phillips' court case spooked them.

I agree, they posted some of the essays close to the trial date. The extension of JS, Nauvoo polygamy has stirred a great amount of uneasiness..among the devout. This is truly, a hit not predicted. I just want to know if it was intentional from the top.15. No official response, yet..crickets.

Maybe there has been a major incident that we don't know about...an incident the 15 Doofuses barely contained, and that incident, plus all the other lovely things that have occurred, have brought them to an edge.

Those lovely things would be like the following:

Mitt Romney, supposedly a loving Mormon, letting those less than elite know that he did not care a bit about them and found them unworthy of his time or care if he became President of the USA.

The witty humor and satire of the Broadway Book of Mormon musical which brought the crazy nuances of the Church-cult to many people for the first time.

Tom Phillips' court case and other successful top leaders in the Church-cult who have seen the truth and shared their stories. These too, have made the news.

Countless members who have left, a lot who have not done this silently, plus no longer pay up to the Church-cult.

All the media attention that occurred over the Church-cult's huge money donation for Proposition 8 and how they called up their "member-army" to accomplish their goal concerning this Proposition, especially in light of the fact they contend they do not get involved in politics. I personally know people who did not realize the church had this kind of power and mobility.

Thanks for your excellent thoughts! First, the Morg has massive amounts of non-disclosed money, it has political power in many Western states and DC, demented (or close to) octogenarian leadership, and a Cone of Silence that Maxwell Smart would envy. So, I think there's maybe a little more behind the scenes--maybe Thursday's meeting in the Salt Lake Temple is not the Court of Caligula, but I'll bet there's something in the air.

Now, as to my use of "turks", this was merely an euphemism for fucks, but as I'm trying not to cuss as much...so, beg to differ, but the Q-15 are all turks in their own way--some a bit younger. Boner.

Alas, where is Kemal? I'd hoped Pukedorf would be it, but he's turning out to be slimier than the rest.

The Cesletter is making a big impact and until about 5 years ago its becoming more fashionable for people to actually resign instead of just fading away.

Mitt Romney will run for President and will only run for President if Thomas S. Monson tells him he is. I can't stress this loud enough. It's not his decision. He must follow orders.

Mormon leaders are a lot of things right now. In trouble, loosing members at an alarming rate, and fighting a really bad image that borders on violence in some parts of the world.

In the U.S. If a twice defeated politician runs a third time for the same seat they not only loose they get laughed off the stage.

The Mormon concept of religion and their perspective on leadership being male dominated have narrowed the Mormon world to a point that tunnel vision is almost the standard for the LD$. The Mo church is desperate for legitimate recognition. If they would do things like, I don't know, actual charity. They would have more credibility. If their view on women and women's rights changed people might feel differently.

But they, the church, is still in a tight spot because the entire operation is based on a fairy tale.

They have no proof of their claims. I believe it's fair to state that Mormonism is nothing more than one big lye built to make money. And people are figuring this out to the point that the Mormon pocket book may be hurting.

I have a friend who investigates financial fraud. He says that his "subjects" will try to cover themselves any way they possibly can until the pressure gets overwhelming.

But if it gets to a certain breaking point, if the evidence can't be ignored any longer, the subjects will often realize that they are better off by talking, then by staying silent. Basically, they might reduce their punishment.

These people are damned if they do, but MORE damned if they don't.

I suspect that the Morg is in deep trouble.

One Question:

Have they directed the Bps, SPs to read them?

I think this could be a sign of a maturing religion.

If Mormonism does survive and thrive, it needs to loosen up.

If you ask a Catholic (for example) about their history, they go, "Big deal. We did stuff wrong, lied and killed people. So what."

I suppose many Mormons would have the same reasons for sticking with Mormonism even knowing its twisted past. Tradition, culture, heritage, habit, comfort, and ritual keep people going. They keep perpetuating the religion and pick and choose what they want.

IMO, Mormonism will need to get to the point where they keep people by not trying to control them. They will keep putting a positive spin on the history and people certain types of people will stay.

dagny's da best

I have wondered many of the same things.

I wonder if a journalist or historian found something historically incriminating of the church while Mitt was running for president.

Or if there is an Assange or Snowden with secrets ready to release?

Is their tax exemption being threatened?

I have never seen LDS, Inc. running so scared.