Even in his temporary legal defeat, Tom's court case against LDS Inc. for fraud won in a big way--it put the fear of exposed God-fraud in the heart of Lyin' Zion. Think about it: Phillips forced the Mormon Cult to defend itself in an open court of law against formal charges of institutional deceit; got one UK magistrate in the process to agree that Phillips had a legitimate case; garnered worldwide press attention in the process; and resulted in the LDS Corp's lawyers desperately admitting before a judge that (contrary to official Mormon doctrine) Mormon beliefs aren't actual truth statements.

I therefore view this recent outflow of anonymous but official site-located essays as an uneasy effort by Mo Inc/Less Think to ward off future possible fraud claims against it through using its anemic essay series as alleged "proof" that the Cult is actually upfront about its history. (Of course, informed students of Mormon history know such is hardly the case but these individuals represent a distinct minority in the vast wasteland of general-audience ignorance, Mormon and non-Mormon alike).

So, Tom Phillips' legal challenge to the Mormon Cult's lies have got the Cult running scared. Follow the money. The essays represent nothing more than LDS Inc.'s attempts to shield itself from future lawsuits, future membership activity-level drops and, ultimately, future loss of tithing revenue. (I also suspect that LDS Inc. hasn't sued Phillips for recovery of court costs because it probably figures the less attention paid to his case, the better for its bottom line).

Take a bow, Tom. You hit 'em where it hurts most--in the pocketbook. both present and potential. That's what has prompted the Mormon Cult's latest surge in pipeline propaganda puff pieces. You've spooked the hell out of The Scam Machine.
_____


related RfM thread: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1415233



Edited 20 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 02:44AM by steve benson.

Exactly Steve.

One may also add in impending media spotlights on this issue depending on Mitts actions in the near future.

And you stood by him despite some catcalls and jeers, Steve. I won't forget it.

Absolutely...neither will forget it Steve.

I get the takes

of the arcanely shakes

now lets hope it makes

whatever amends it takes

for mr T's mistakes

bumping cus its steve and tom. And I love them.

johnnyboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bumping cus its steve and tom. And I love them.


don't forget tom donofrio

luv im too

gawd werks in mysterious ways

I agree 100%. I am betting on the author(s) of these essay(s) turns out to be in the legal profession (attorney, judge).

I've been reading the essays with my Ex-mo eyes so my opinion is biased but the extreme "spin" that these reflect is evidence to me that someone with a defense attorney background (probably an entire team of defenders) could have written them, especially the latest polygamy, polyandry one and the 14 year old!

For our eyes on the board (at least for me) the lies in these essays are so obvious it is nearly comical, but if one is seriously brainwashed [and if one WANTS these to be really true], I can see how some people may believe that crafty defense attorney.

If the CULT is scared enough to hire writers to do the essays that sound DEFENSIVE to us, but probably just sounds honest to the TBMs (except for some and that is the important part those SOME), then YES, the CULT is taking a shaking and we do have Tom to thank for this....SUPER THANKS TOM!! Finally the big beast has been stirred and Tom holds the stirring stick.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 02:38AM by verilyverily.

don't forget that Dallin Oaks used to be the head of the Utah supreme court.

I'm sure he had a lot of input.

The scientologists just got convicted in France. Some governments are waking up. Great post Steve.

I completely agree.

Many of us have asked: Why now?

Well, this is why now. They couldn't NOT say anything after being accused in court now could they? Because what if someone should try again?

They have to at least try and cover their behinds.

THey don't have any beliefs

Yeah, they have 'knowledge'.

Maybe they don't believe their beliefs :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 05:41AM by steve benson.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 05:51AM by steve benson.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1413602,1413775#msg-1413775



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 03:14AM by Claire Ferguson.

I agree with you, Steve.

I sometimes wonder if the TSCC knows what to do to stop the bleeding. It's like they've done so many new things in the past few years from a PR standpoint=YouTube I'm a Mormon videos,the essays,GA's now saying that having doubts is Ok,the movie MTM,placing Women leaders in more visible seats during GC,this new garments video-But,I think it's only going to get worse By the way I really enjoyed Tom Phillips Mormon stories interview awhile back.

...have undoubtedly influenced a detailed review of their statements.

An obvious example is the portrayal of JS as a martyr who died because he was unwilling to deny his faith. To us, and historians, an obvious lie. The latest essay vindicates the Nauvoo Expositor and therefore admits the church (and JS) claim that it had to be destroyed for printing lies was untrue. He was arrested for treason and stirring up a riot against the State, and was killed for this and his polygamy.

The possibility that the church may change to having civil marriage before temple sealings may also have been influenced by the Prosecution I brought. Church lawyers know that I presented evidence that it was a 'pay to play' organisation and one example was being unable to witness a child's wedding unless you were a full tithe payer.

I am pleased that, for whatever reasons, they are making changes and admitting some things that they branded 'Anti-Mormon Lies' previously. Of course the essays were started before my legal case became public, but the latest releases do seem to have been influenced by details in the prosecution case, known to church lawyers but not the general public.

However, this does not get them off the hook for future prosecutions. The alleged crime(s) have already been committed and there is no statute of limitations. If anything, their essays confirm that they knew the statements to be untrue and is evidence against them.

Tom

good one!

because the dumbass monkeys can't pull their fat hands out of the jar without letting go of the kooky cookies

someone ought to post that on the salamander society



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 12:58PM by Shummy.

hands in the kooky jar, ha ha...

but the effort you have already made has been great! I'm sure it would be easier to sit back and enjoy your life and put Mormonism in the past, but you have chosen to take the difficult road by not sitting back and letting the church go on without any price to pay for the lies.

Many people appreciate what you have done! It seems like what the church said is true when they said, "No one ever said it would be easy, but it will be worth it". :)

I agree wholeheartedly Danr. Thank you very much Tom!

Steve is so right in thinking that the Corporation is worried and I’m quite sure that those worries have been manifested in the form of LDS stooges coming in here pumping for information as to Toms next move, should there be one.

As far as I’m concerned these essays, while addressing certain concerns, may also prove in the long term to be a self inflicted and possibly fatal wound. As Steve rightly says it’s an attempt to ward off possible future cases of fraud but the other side of the essay coin is that it’s also an admittance of guilt. With the publication of essays correcting Mormon history the Corporation are in effect saying, “yes we have misled people with false claims”

I can only speak as a layman but my understanding is that the LDS and lawyers representing it could be guilty of perverting the course of Justice through perjury. LDS lawyers claimed that Tom’s case was simply an attack on religious beliefs but even if that was so it changes nothing as those beliefs have been shown by the Corporations own admittance in the essays, to be false, a fake history manufactured by the LDS for the dual purpose of misleading and causing financial loss to the members and financial gain to the leaders

Didn't the earliest essays come out before Tom's suit? I suspect they had been under discussion for some time before any essays were ever released. I also suspect there was a long period of revisions before the essays were OKed.

Tom gave them a good shove in a direction they were already going. Access to historical information on the Internet, and loss of membership because of that information, was what created the need for the essays.

It’s true that the first of the essays were published before Tom’s case was actually heard in the magistrates court but, bear in mind that Tom had been working on his fraud action since well before the publication of that first essay so it’s certainly within the realms of possibility that the LDS had gotten wind of this and rushed out a couple of essays in an attempt to thwart Tom. While it’s probable that these essays were already in the pipeline, there can be no doubt, to my mind at least, that Toms case hastened the process.

None of the above changes the fact that the essays are an admittance of 180 years of deception by the LDS leadership and will undoubtedly have the effect of strengthening any future fraud action against the LDS.

Tom's extensive and sheer hard work over a long period of time in building a very strong and legitimate legal case against the church in a UK court, was absolutely pivitol and the driving force in the church desperately rushing out the first of their initial essays.
With their tacit admissions of deceit and concealment sprinkled throughout their recent essays, the church clearly realises it is still bang in trouble regarding its own obfuscation and involvement in it's chequered past, covering many long years.
With the church scurrying about publishing yet more of their incriminating essays, the temple garment video and the possibility of major changes to LDS marriage ceremonies, I am confident that possible further legal action is well on its way.
And when the sh-t hits the LDS fan this time, let's hope it causes permanent and very public damage to awhat is a thoroughly dishonest and disreputable organisation.

Sorry, but Tom's case was blown out of the water without much effort on LDS, Inc.'s part. Religion pretty much has carte blanche to do all kinds of things that would be otherwise illegal. It's not going to change anytime soon.

LDS, Inc. is probably bleeding membership and losing the tithing revenue. That's the free money - the rest they have to earn just like any other corporation. So from that perspective I agree with SB that it's a "follow the money" scenario.

I would apologize for being a skeptic, but I have now embraced skepticism as a virtue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 10:20AM by mrtranquility.

. . . without much effort from LDS Inc., then why in the hell is the Mormon Cult now blowing off the doors in order to get these essays out? It is no coincidence that the essays really began rolling off LDS Inc.'s propaganda assembly line in a general time frame where media steam was slowly building around Tom's case and the details of the charges he was bringing against Monson and Company started receiving increasing public scrutiny.

Do you honestly think that the Mormon Cult--which has a long and predictable history of cover-up, smoke-and-mirror distractions and downplaying of actual LDS history--suddenly decided out of the kindness of its cold, black heart to start blowing the whistle on itself in the name of truth and transparency? Wake up and smell the quivering Jell-O. The Cult is attempting to avoid, at some point in the future, truly getting snagged in an open court of law with charges of fraud and impropriety that a judge will find applicable and proveable under the law. If you can't follow the money trail behind LDS Inc.'s recent and unexpected move to start acknowledging (albeit incompletely and often dishonestly) controversial matters like Mormon Cult polygamy and racism in doctrine and practice, then you are as blind as a boilerplate TBM.

It is cover-your-butt time for the Mormon Cult, no ifs, ands or buts about it.



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 04:16PM by steve benson.

No doubt Tom's case rattled deh boyz, and many people have given them pause, but I think John Dehlin is more personally responsible than is Tom. Here's why.

In reading some of John Dehlin's research, I could not help but link his survey's findings with the content of the essays that have rolled out.

The list of essays too closely matches the one John Dehlin's dissertation research confirmed.

http://www.whymormonsquestion.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Survey-Results_Understanding-Mormon-Disbelief-Mar20121.pdf

If you don't have time to read the whole document, pages 9 and 18 have lists of reasons people leave. Pages 24-25 have lists of what would make people consider returning.

Disclaimer: somewhere in John's materials I read a bullet point list of the main issues, and they, too, match the essay rollouts.

I recall from the DCP dustup that Dehlin has at least one bigname connection in the hierarchy. On at leat one of his podcasts he speaks of sharing the results of his survey (for his dissertation project) with suits.


Edited 16.375 times by Ishmael.

“Sorry, but Tom's case was blown out of the water without much effort on LDS, Inc.'s part”

Not so, Tom’s case was in no way blown out of the water as it wasn’t even taken under consideration by a Magistrate who chose instead to do exactly what the defence lawyers asked him to do.

The facts are clear and obvious to anyone who followed the hearing at first hand. Due to his refusal to look at evidence of fraud (irrefutable) he chose instead to view the case from the perspective of religious freedom (inexcusable) on both counts he was 100% wrong. Should a similar case be brought against the Corporation in the future there is no doubt that the result will be very different.

“Religion pretty much has carte blanche to do all kinds of things that would be otherwise illegal. It's not going to change anytime soon.”

Not in the UK or Europe, the UK Supreme court ruling against the LDS and the subsequent rejection of the LDS appeal by the European court clearly shows that the tide is turning against organizations that that use religion to defraud taxpayers. It’s only a matter of time before lawmakers in the US catch on to what is happening in the real world.

On May 3, 2013 MormonThink broke the news about the essays.
http://mormonthink.com/essays-responses-intro.htm
That was some time before the court action. Now I don't doubt at all that several things factored into the church's decision to put some of the information out there that has been on critics' sites for many years and in books for many decades - namely:

- so they can claim that the church isn't hiding anything.

- attempt to take some wind out of the critics' sails by innoculating its members.

- only tell half the story so when members find out about the issues then they will say they already know about it and won't bother researching the details to find the really troubling parts.

- give the members some sort of resource to go to when they bring these things up to their bishop.

- fear of lawsuits. Just as the Scientologists were ruled against in France, the LDS Church could very well find itself being sued for witholding information that prospective converts should know about before joining. Even if the U.S. legal system wouldn't likely ever rule against the church in this regard, it is not good press and any publicity generated would just highlight the problems of the church to members that don't know about them.

So yes, Tom did a great thing in showing the Church that people can and will actually challenge the Church in court to hold them accountable for their actions. That may very well influence to what degree the church acknowledges its issues in the essays.

. . . have been forwarded up the magistrate court chain by a lower-court judge for higher judicial review. In the end, What you had was one UK magistrate disagreeing with another UK magistrate as to the legitimacy of the case--with the senior judge winning.

That doesn't mean the case was torpedoed, not by any means. A precedent has been set and it is one that strikes at the heart of LDS Inc. legitimatcy: When the Mormon Cult is relegated to a position of self-defense that has it admitting in open court that its beliefs are not to be regarded as truth declarations, then you know it's backpedaling big-time.

And why is the Mormon Cult doing that?

Because the Mormon Cult does not want to be found liable in some future court setting for acts of deliberate corporate fraud.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 04:07PM by steve benson.

Yep Lawyers ... Thanks So Much! Tom Phillips

and Don , Tanners ... ect!

It was the news articles about the finances that woke us up!

Thanks Steve for everything you have brought out in the newspapers in the past and your articles on this website.

Maybe it's the overall fact that the real history of Mormonism is so easily accessed on the internet, that church leaders have finally realized that they can't continue lying about it and maintaining their juvenile ad hominem attacks against people who are publishing the truth.

In other words, it's like Grant Palmer said at an Ex-Mormon conference a few years ago: the church knows that they've lost the internet war against the antis and exes, so now they're trying to figure out how to move forward. Palmer opined that the church has to introduce the real history slowly, and allow the current generation of older Mormons (who have been taught the lies) to die off, so the younger generation (the ones who stay in the church) can be indoctrinated with the more accurate history.

I thank everybody who stands up with integrity and speaks out. I am in awe of Tom and his courage, and willingness to put himself front and center. I love Steve's editorial cartoons, barrage of information, and point of view. This is action. It is gratifying to see.

+1

Well for old timers it's most gratifying to see that the seeds of truth planted here years ago have sprouted and are now beginning to bear fruit.

That's why I keep coming back.

I think that Toms case pushed them but not because of possible court cases, for reasons Tom has already explained. The essays don't get them off past court cases, rather it incriminates them all the more.

I think it's there because Tom's case provided a lot of exposure and they're trying to counter that exposure.
That was my take-away from the Saturday night conversation with the missionaries. If you're interested read my encounter with the mishies Saturday night.

It was obvious that these missionaries were trained in their presentation format just in case they encountered somebody like me who has been exposed to real truths, but the mishies only had the information that lds.org wants them to have, which means that they still don't have the full truth.

If the missionaries encounter somebody whose heard about the real truth they offer the lds.org essays and are still able to denounce anything non lds as anti.
They offer the essays ONLY if a person shows knowledge on hidden info. I watched them give plan A, and when they realized plan A didn't work they shifted to plan B -- essays vs anti telling me that I don't have to go on any anti site because the lds site tells it all.

Like you said though, the purpose is to cover their assets financially but I think it's about tithes $ rather than legal $.

The missionaries are still out trying to convert people AFTER Tom's exposure and LD$ inc had to do something to help the mishies and their numbers.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 04:02PM by joan.

. . . for the LDS Cult when what is exposed can be linked to criminal fraud. There is more of that to come, as Tom and others have noted.

Question for you... Based on the fact that they've come forward with essays that have major omissions, could that in itself be grounds for a lawsuit concerning willful deception and omission?
My apology if somebody already explained it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 04:27PM by joan.

In Paul H Dunn parlance......the pitches are coming in hard and fast and the lds batters are all swinging late.

if the recruiting manuals and everyday instruction materials are not changed it is still bait-n-switch (AKA "milk before meat") for investigators, even BIC if they don't bother to do extensive research