Mormonism created a theocracy in the West for many years. Mormonism is a big part of Utah and American history. It is not just merely a cult. It is too big to be an average cult. It is too involved in politics. It stands out like a sore thumb among cults. That is why it is so hard to deal with it like you would deal with most cults. It is too powerful and has too much influence.

I would argue that it is not a big part of American history.

It is not that big.

It is a cult.

It's not a huge part of American history, mostly because it's uninteresting to most, but it is a big odd part of the settlement of the west. Most high school American history texts at least mention Brigham Young and company and their role in settling the west.

It is a big part of UTAH history, so yes, in that sense, it is at least a significant part of American history.

I separate Mormonism from American history as a sentence, but Western history it is a paragraph, could even be a chapter.

Modern American politics will show that Mormons are disproportionately represented in American politics and that is because Mormons deliver in a political machine-like manner.

Mormon Senators and Congressmen represent a disproportionate amount of the Congress and especially the West. It borders on ridiculous.

In my district's jr/sr high history books, mormonism gets about 3/4 of one page out of 850 pages.

As a non-mo, I don't remember hearing anything about mormons at school ever - first grade through twelfth.

All religions are cults, according to a dictionary definition. I refrain from using it in a derogatory, inflammatory manner as I don't find useful and not very credible.

Those that have not lived in a strong Baptist, or Catholic or Evangelical area, for instance, think that only Mormonism does this or that, is in politics, etc. Not true. Many areas are highly influenced by religious beliefs. For instance, football and other sports games in the South often start with prayer, as well as city meetings.

Religion will be part of the landscape and part of the human experience everywhere in the world as it's part of what makes us human.

Some even go so far to think that Mormonism is only lived and understood the way they lived it and everything different is not the "only true" religion. Having lived in many areas as an LDS woman, I can attest that there are about as many different kinds of Mormonism as there are Mormons. I often repeated that as a Mormon, also as I saw it everywhere. I was continually surprised by how people interpreted the religion and lived it from the most fanatical Letter of the Law to the relaxed, easy going, Spirit of the Law members. Every Ward/Stake I attended had members in every level of both of those categories. There are many more categories, such as the Five Kinds of Mormons by Kirby:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1TSNP_enUS489US489&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=kirby%20five%20kinds%20of%20mormons

+1

Adding that the word 'cult' is so open to (mis)interpretation when used in its connotative and not denotative sense it's really not the best choice of words to describe any group.

I also understand that "cult" can confuse. I such cases I humbly suggest "destructive organization" for the sake of clarity.

I prefer the term "high-demand group."

And cults are not necessarily religious. Scientology started as a psychological cult; a religious mythology was added in installments. Earhard Seminar Training ("EST") in the 1970s-80s, a spin-off from Scientology, was a "human potential" cult.

Cults can be political. North Korea demonstrates cultic qualities, as does Cuba and Stalin's Soviet state. You've got Lyndon LaRouche, which is cult-ISH on the political left, and the John Birch Society, which is cult-ISH on the right.

An important element in identifying a cult is the issue of thought reform. It happens in LDS, but not as dramatically and gruesomely as David Koresh's group or Jim Jones' People's Temple ("Jonestown").

Not at all.

Religion is certainly part of human history, but it is not part of what makes us human.

(Simply consider that there are people who are and always have been areligious. Obviously, they are human. Therefore, religion is NOT part of being human. Done.)

Mormons think they are a "big part of American history."
Nobody else does.

"Cult" status, even in the narrow, not quite correct negative connotation of the word, is not size-based...it's behavior-based.
Mormonism is a cult. That would be the case if there were 15 mormons or 15 million mormons.

I love that.

Mormonism grew in a manner that early on taught them the value of positive PR. Outreach in the form of the Tabernacle Choir and growing a University that is widely recognized in athletics and possibly certain academics and the cultivation of squeaky clean images of members help to put a bit of polish on a turd in the eyes of the drooling masses who happen to hear about mormons.

It is The Great Apostasy of The West.

It is The Whore of All The United States.

It is everything it has every accused The Catholic Church of being. It grew up with the express mission of not being "like other denominations and sects" and became the Islam of The United States.

You can see what a marvelous work and wonder it is in seeing how broad its reach and totalitarian its tactics in comparing it with the one church it considered the worst offender of ruining the original organization of Jesus.

Jesus must have been quite the bastard if Mormonism is a restoration of his ways.

-1. Islam of the United States?

a) There are many different kinds of Islam. There are many different kinds of Muslims.

b) No Mormon that I am aware of has ever engaged in acts of terrorism on the scale of Islamic extremists. Not that no Mormon or even no Mormon leader has ever done wrong. These extremists aren't representative of Islam, of course. But if extremism or fundamentalism was what you are pointing to, bad comparison ...

Sorry, just my thoughts.

Danites, anyone? . . .

I like the Islam comparison. I think that its apt. Both are started by self proclaimed prophets who authored and or promoted bible fan fiction. In both cases an awful lot of reverence is given to these prophets. Both societies, as practiced by fundamentalists, treat women as property to aquire or dispose as one might a cow, to paraphrase Brigham Young.

Islam of course has a much longer history, and in some of its earlier incarnations it was very progressive and tolerant for its time. Also, as fiction, the Koran is a better piece of work than the book of Mormon. Mormonism has only had a little while and has never had the power and resources of the political State, so it hasn't developed much variation.

My Mormon ancestor John D. Lee was a mass murdering terrorist for the Mormon terrorists. They would still murder if practical.

The only thing keeping the early Mormons from being modern terrorists is the lack of technology and efficient weaponry. There's nothing in the doctrine that would exempt Mormons from being terrorists except that the heart of Mormonism's stuck in the US. If Mormonism were centered in an ungoverned and ungovernable piece of geography, what would happen?

Think clearly.

Baura's got a thread where he outlines how BY extorted 10% of all property a new Utah resident brought with them. Then an additional 10% every year went to Brig. MMM anyone?

Jesus, Jesus for Christ's Sake! in the BOM commits massive genocide as his first act after resurrection! Mormon psychologists (men trained in healing the mentally ill) designed the CIA's torture program long after the Geneva Conventions.

Torture. Blood Atonement?! What in the doctrine limits Mormons? Jesus, himself, is a mass murderer. Without the secular humanism of the US government, what would Mormonism be?

Haven't you heard of MMM? That was a big act of terrorism.

+1

Somewhere I have the large 'Popular History of the United States of America' from 1876 by respected 19th century historian JC Ridpath; I haven't looked through it for a while, but the only imaginable mention of the Mormons might be construed from a side note: "The idea that ancient Israelites came to America is preposterous."

The only difference I see from most cults is that Mormonism is much bigger.

Other than that .....

the Specificity of LDS claims is a large part of the context of any Cult determination, IMHO.

Mainstream religions don't have that burden to bear (or bare, ha ha).

I would list these:

Scientology

the snake 'religions', etc, all of that ilk we generally refer to as Pentecostal

JW's, SDAs


Christian Science is kinda borderline, IMHO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2015 11:44PM by GNPE.

Yeah but some experts say North Korea is a cult. Cultishness has to do with the elements of mind control, which can be present in an entire nation, like North Korea or Brigham's Utah or it can be present in a marriage.

They own one of the fifty states with a huge real estate....
Are you blind?

If mind control defines a cult, the whole country is one.

Government and the media tell us daily how critical their various wars and welfare are to our survival. Like TBMs, few of us dig deep enough to discover reality.

Likewise, we're constantly told how much stuff we need. Consumerism is a cult.

My DIL recently expressed concern that my daughters weren't going to spend enough on a wedding. She made a big deal out of hers. I told her that actually, weddings are optional. She gave me a dirty look, as though I threatened her religion. She is the product of mind control.

We could go on and on. Few people engage in original thought. Most let others determine their lives. I even see that on this site - the pressure to be angry, and to drink, etc, etc.