Joseph Smith's great grandfather Samuel Smith, and his father-in-law John Gould both bore false witness against two women who were later hanged as witches during the Salem Witch Trials.

Belief in witchcraft was passed down generationally, which contributed to the formation of Joseph Smith's psyche, no doubt.

http://www.conchisle.com/moroni.htm

Interestingly enough, or strangly enough depending on your

viewpoint, one of my ancestors was hanged as a witch in

Salem. Yikes.

How did they know she was a witch?

Did they build a bridge out of her?

Ah, but can you not also make bridges out of stone?

ASteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How did they know she was a witch?
>
> Did they build a bridge out of her?


no sey ..... she didn't leave any info.... plus they didn't hang her they burned her at the stake.... I think this gave me a genetic predispositional fear of fire. Just sayin'.

Besids AZ.... how do they build a bridge out of a burned witch?
Is it a secret?

I also have an ancestor who was a witness against witches in Salem.

My question is, how does the OP know that these witnesses bore false witness against the witches.....they could have been right, you know.

amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Belief in witchcraft was passed down
> generationally, which contributed to the formation
> of Joseph Smith's psyche, no doubt.

I think Smith's highly dysfunctional family crazy got passed down the generations with the belief system he started.

Mormonism took family worship to the cult level.

I hope it became diluted by the time it hit me...

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1560425

That's funny Saucie, we're all apparently the spawn of Salem witches. Rebecca Nurse in my case.

What that says about us I dunno, whadda you think?

THE Rebecca Nurse! Well, Shumms, I don't think that I'd be admitting that too often! Boner.

Shummy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's funny Saucie, we're all apparently the
> spawn of Salem witches. Rebecca Nurse in my case.
>
> What that says about us I dunno, whadda you
> think?


Well Shummy.... it means we are interesting, fabulously funny

and well rounded people with an extreme fear of fire.. !!!!!

Hahahahhahahhahahahhahahhah right?

saucie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shummy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's funny Saucie, we're all apparently the
> > spawn of Salem witches. Rebecca Nurse in my
> case.
> >
> > What that says about us I dunno, whadda you
> > think?
>
>
> Well Shummy.... it means we are interesting,
> fabulously funny
>
> and well rounded people with an extreme fear of
> fire.. !!!!!
>
> Hahahahhahahhahahahhahahhah right?

Plus I don't know her name.... fool that I am and I have so much genealogy that there's no way I can find her. I could
just beat myself up for neglecting to do that.

Kind of ironic, because Joseph Smith's critics accused him of being a witch and a necromancer. He did a lot of things that looked very much like witchcraft.

He was fond of scrying. He gazed deeply at a magic rock to do things like search for hidden treasure and lost and stolen valuables. He also gazed into this stone to translate an indecipherable language when he did the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith had visions. He sought aid from otherworldly beings and the ghosts of dead people. He cast spells such as healing spells and good luck spells. By some accounts, he cast curses and hexes on his enemies. His friend Oliver Cowdery was a dowser -- a water witch. Joseph Smith made potions from plants such as fly amanita and datura to help him and others, like those at the Kirtland temple, enter mystical trance states. When Joseph Smith was killed, we was wearing a magic medallion that would let him draw on the power of the pagan god Jupiter.

Joseph Smith was a witch!

I've heard this before but have found nothing to support the claim. Do you have documented proof and are you willing to share?

I am not sure if it is really true that Joseph Smith used hallucinogens, but there are really weird stories in official church sources about the Kirtland temple dedication and other meetings.

Here are some links about Joseph Smith and hallucinogens:

http://www.i4m.com/think/history/holy-ghost.htm

http://www.mormonthink.com/files/restoration-sacred-mushroom.pdf

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,122487,122606

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12034547

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/24/1173544/-The-entheogenic-origins-of-the-Mormon-experience

And really, who among you has never made a potion of fly amanita oand datura? Why, some of my fondest memories occurred in the moonlight waiting for the hour of Saturn, the smell of the chicken blood drying on my skin still sends me back...

Why aren't people more shocked by this?

Because the credibility is spectacularly lacking among those of us who've developed actual critical thinking skills.

http://dreamflesh.com/library/andy-letcher/shroom/

Be sure to read the part about how Gordon Wasson's "subtly exploitative interactions with the Mazatec Indians."

SLC
Who also used to be an "insider"
Until he read about Castaneda's claims of flying



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2015 01:09AM by SL Cabbie.

Thanks!

She decided to follow her legal husband Adam Lightner as he looked for work, and leave Smith. In an hysterical rant he cursed both of them that they would have terrible hardships throughout their lives. Unfortunately, they did.

I live in a city which in those days actually went to the state legislature which acted as a final court to protest against the conviction of someone as a witch and they won. Some of these people are my ancestors who led the fight against the stupidity of the witch trials. Of course, the numbers of such trials pale in comparison to epidemics of such witchhunts which happened in Europe.

There are still some churches which preach more about "Satan" than about Christ. TSCC, for example, seems constantly to attribute the apostasy of us here to "Satan" and it leads to shunning. Some TBMs think we are modern witches although it was that kind of thinking on the part of the Smiths along with belief in magic and charms which created the Mormon corporation.

Why's that boner?

After all, no one knows if she really was the village slut.

But in any event, it wasn't my fault.

"Witch! Witch! Witch!"

Don't think that info is reliable. Here's why. Salem Witch trials took place between 1692-93. Samuel Smith lived 1714-85 and his FIL Zaccheus (not John) 1672-1739. John Gould was the father of Zaccheus.

That was Samuel Smith, Jr. who was born in 1714. His father, Samuel Smith was born in 1666.

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/EoM/id/4391/show/4215

Edited to add reference.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2015 07:10PM by moose.

Sorry but OP said the grandfather of JS which was S Smith, Jr who married a Gould. S Smith, Sr (1666) was married to R Curtis whose father was John Curtis.

I have no idea whether the men bore false witness or not but the names and relationships just don't jibe.

The article link I cited said it was the great-grandfather, Samuel Smith, not grandfather to Joseph. And it was the great grandfather's father-in-law, John Gould.

That makes more sense with the generational gap between them and Joe Smith.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2015 09:14PM by amyjo.

*The Salem Witch Trials

"Many Mormons do not know about Joe Smith's family involvement in the Salem witch trials of 1692, when Joe Smith Sr.'s great-grandfather Samuel Smith and Samuel's father-in-law John Gould testified against Mary Easty and Sarah Wilds, respectively. The testimony of these relatives of Joe Smith hanged these girls as witches. A belief in witchcraft was passed through the Smith generations. Even Orlando Saunders, whom Mormon apologists consider to be one of the most favorable witnesses to Joe Smith's character, said in an interview that both Joe Smith Sr. and Jr. believed in witchcraft (Frederic G. Mather, "The Early Days of Mormonism," in "Lippincott's Magazine" 26, August 1880, p. 198).

"Mormon General Authority B. H. Roberts admitted that Joe Smith's ancestors believed in warlocks and witches, but he asserted that such belief was normal in Smith's day, 'Yes, the Prophet's ancestors were credulous. . . . It may be admitted that some of them believed in fortune telling, in warlocks and witches. . . . To be credulous in such things was to be normal people" (B. H. Roberts, "A Comprehensive History of the Church," vol. 1, pp. 26-27).

"Fayette Lapham, who spoke with the Smiths at length to find out firsthand about Mormonism, said, 'This Joseph Smith, Senior, we soon learned, from his own lips, was a firm believer in witchcraft and other supernatural things; and had brought up his family in the same belief' ("Historical Magazine," 7 May 1870, p. 306).

(Mark Hines, "Mormonism: The Halloween Religion," at: http://www.conchisle.com/moroni.htm)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2015 06:08AM by steve benson.

I have a broom, and have been known to fly off the handle.

But there are good witches, and then there are bad witches. ...

Dorothy:
Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore! We must be over the rainbow!
Now I - I know we're not in Kansas!
Glinda:
Are you a good witch, or a bad witch?
Dorothy:
Who, me! I - I'm not a witch at all. I'm Dorothy Gale, from Kansas.
Glinda:
Oh! Well, is that the Witch?
Dorothy:
Who, Toto? Toto's my dog.
Glinda:
Well, I'm a little muddled. The Munchkins called me because a new witch has just dropped a house on the Wicked Witch of the East.
And there's the house, and here you are, and that's all that's left of the Wicked Witch of the East.
And so, what the Munchkins want to know is - are you a good witch or a bad witch?
Dorothy:
But I've already told you, I'm not a witch at all. Witches are old and ugly. What was that?
Glinda:
The Munchkins. They're laughing because I am a witch. I'm Glinda, the Witch of the North.
Dorothy:
You are! I beg your pardon! But I've never heard of a beautiful witch before.
Glinda:
Only bad witches are ugly.
Glinda:
The Munchkins are happy because you have freed them from the Wicked Witch of the East.
Dorothy:
Oh. But - if you please, what are Munchkins?
Glinda:
The little people who live in this land. It's Munchkinland, and you are their national heroine, my dear.
It's all right - you may all come out and thank her.