I've finally given in to being atheist. I tried for a year to be Christian but it didn't stick. The only thing I'm unsure about is what do I tell my kids. They are all pretty young (12,9,6). It seems scary to tell them there is no heaven or that I have no idea what happens when you die. For much of their young lives we talked all the time about being an eternal family etc. I guess I feel like by the time you have three kids you should at least have a clue how to answer these questions. Anyone else been through this with kids?

Do you want your kids to be honest when you ask them a question? Do you want them to respect and trust you?

Then, you tell the truth. You do your best.

(BTW, nevermo, here, but parent and atheist. Also, had atheist parent, so I saw the kid's side of it.)

How about a very honorable, "I don't know, nobody knows, and it's okay not to know."

Use it as a time to explain what science is finding everyday, and how they need to use their own minds to find facts, verify evidence and reach their own conclusions, or admit, that sometimes we just don't know.

Use it as a time to explain that morals are not tied to religion or a hereafter. Explain that one hand washes the other and the better we treat each other the better we all do. Reciprocity. It makes life sweet.

+1 !

To me, telling them that there is a god that sends them to hell for an eternity of suffering and damnation for masturbating is a lot more scary than telling them that they need not fear anything when you die.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2014 12:55AM by MJ.

there is no such god. That imagined 'god' is not God (whatever super-human all-and-everything that may refer to).

I'd certainly call that god an atheists' straw man, except for the unfortunate fact that so many people have projected and believe in that.

Dogmatically claiming this or that (and that means, without direct personal experience) can be a form of child abuse...whichever way it goes.

On the other hand, to say you don't know may be upsetting for younger children, who may not yet be at the age to accept that their parents are fallible.

Saying "nobody knows" without engaging a discussion of the evidence is a dogmatic use of the Appeal to moderation logical fallacy.

I base my view on the empirical evidence at hand and it can as new evidence emerges, I am not maintaining a dogmatic view. Constantly repeating "nobody knows" is dogmatic.

Thus it would be your dogma, not mine, that would be abusive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2014 07:56PM by MJ.

Richard Foxe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> there is no such god. That imagined 'god' is not
> God (whatever super-human all-and-everything that
> may refer to).

I never said there was a God. Do read my post with the intent of understanding it. I talked about what is ->TOLD<- to children and that statement is valid regardless of the existence or nature of God. To imply that I was talking about the nature or existence of god is a rude straw man.

>
> I'd certainly call that god an atheists' straw
> man,

Since I am not talking about the actual god, there is no straw man on my part.

> except for the unfortunate fact that so many
> people have projected and believe in that.

Which is what I was talking about, the projection of the belief.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2014 07:36PM by MJ.

I always told my son that Bible stories were fables. He knew there were people who believed in gods and spirits. Ghost stories were the same thing, I told him. As a boy he definitely preferred ghosts over prophets. He's an adult now, and he tells me he prefers Buddhism over atheism. His beliefs were not determined by birth, but by his own conscience, because I think every human being deserves that much dignity, at least.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2014 12:12AM by donbagley.

Super, well-said replies. I can't say it better.

I will just underline that to tell the truth always wins, especially with children who are way smarter than we usually give them credit for.

One of the lies of religion is that this stuff is overwhelmingly important, and we should all study it to death. They get their cred from supposedly knowing answers.

Nobody knows, kids, it'll probably at least be real peaceful like before we are born. Now let's talk about what's for dinner, and were any of you bullied today.

Thank you all so much for the great replies. I'm already feeling better. I used to parent by the handbook. Sometimes I get in a panic because I don't have that anymore. I need to trust myself more.

Instead of telling them the "facts", just ask lots of questions.

Don't bring up religious topics: wait until they do and then gauge their understanding.

"What does god look like?"

"Where is heaven?"

"Does your pet kitty cat pray?"

Then keep asking about details. You'll get some humorous responses and your kids will begin to think about these topics instead of just parroting material they've heard from others.

Children have very strange notions about these things because they hear stories but don't understand much beyond those.

I think it's much more scary to tell them there's a God watching your every move and judging you and hoping you succeed but never willing to help you. I SOOO wished I hadn't been taught this myth. And think about it - don't you wish you hadn't been taught it either???

Teach them the truth, plan and simple. There are lots of families that grow of with an atheist view and they turn out just fine...in fact probably a lot better than religious ones, honestly.

When my oldest asks questions, I usually answer them with questions. When she asked if there's a god, I asked her what she thought. I told her about many of the different views out there, and told her she can decide what she wants to believe since no one really knows for sure.

She knows and loves a lot of mormons, so the mormon view is something she knows a bit about. She's even been to church a few times with family and friends (her dad lives in Lehi, so she gets love bombed on the weekends she's there) We've talked about how having rules to live by and a belief in an afterlife gives people comfort.

For herself though, she believes god is the love and energy that lives in all of us (I think her nevermo dad gave her this idea, which I kinda like too). She likes the idea of heaven, but doesn't think there are any specific rules to get there. She likes making her own rules based mostly on the golden rule.

There are excellent books available to help parents develop mature skepticism in children. Here are a few (I have not read them all, but they have been recommended by others).


Maybe Yes, Maybe No: A Guide for Young Skeptics, by Dan Barker
Encourages having an open mind and checking things out to find the truth, rather than blindly accepting everything we hear.

Maybe Right, Maybe Wrong: A Guide for Young Thinkers, by Dan Barker
Discusses learning right from wrong, stressing such aspects as the difference between rules and principles and the importance of an individual's rights.

Just Pretend: A Freethought Book for Children, by Dan Barker
This illustrated book for freethinking children examines religions and myths like God and Santa Claus. Overtly freethought, it encourages the child to make his or her own decisions about religion, and champions skepticism, atheism, and informed doubt.

If You Had to Choose, What Would You Do? (Paperback)
by Sandra McLeod Humphrey,
"The situations presented in this book...can help you talk with children about important moral and social issues."

How Do You Know It's True?: Discovering the Difference Between Science and Superstition (Paperback)
by Hyman Ruchlis
Discusses the difference between science and superstition, the basic nature of science as a way of thinking, and the ways in which amazing events can be explained rationally.
One reviewer: Excellent introductory book on the acquisition of knowledge, with special emphasis on the reliability and utility of the scientific method. A must read for children. I would also recommend it to older adults who are lacking in knowledge concerning the scientific method and how sound logic and reasoning is applied.

Critical Thinking : Book 1 (1201) (Paperback)
by Anita Harnadek
One reviewer: This book teaches logic and argumentation in a simple form. It also teaches how to recognize propaganda and reasoning errors. I have enjoyed learning from this book and I have used it with my children with excellent results.

Do whatever you can to help them develop critical thinking skills. How to recognize propaganda, scams, fairy tales, tall tales, liars, etc., preferably using non-religious subject matter. Make sure they understand that being skeptical is a good thing. Children should be encouraged to ask "How do you know that?" They should be taught that even grown-ups can be mistaken, and they don't need to blindly accept something just because a teacher or a parent says it. If they can learn to recognize that the story of Jack and the Beanstalk is just a make-believe, they should be able to see that the same is true of the story of Noah's Ark or the talking walking snake in the Garden of Eden.

Get them interested in topics of history and science where they contradict Mormonism: geology, anthropology (especially paleoanthropology), astronomy, ancient history, history of the Indians, evolution, etc. If you have good museums where you live, with exhibits in those fields, museum visits would be very impressive.

Website:

http://www.parentingbeyondbelief.com/

http://sciencebasedparenting.com/

http://skeptikids.org/blog/

Videos:
Parenting Beyond Belief, Dale McGowan (also books: Parenting beyond belief and Raising Freethinkers
http://parentingbeyondbelief.com/

I tell them the truth.
That all the evidence we have (and it's a lot) shows that we just have one life, that there's no magical "afterlife," and that we should make the most of every day we have being alive.

I've never (not even when I was TBM) thought that "comforting lies" were a good idea. Or comforting fantasies/myths. If you can't face reality and deal with it, then you need to work on THAT problem, rather than just avoid it or pretend it's not real.

My two current kids (18 and 14) are curious, inquisitive, intelligent, kind, honest, and gentle. They appreciate each day they have, and want to honestly know how things really work and how wondrous the universe is, without comforting fantasies. I couldn't be more proud. :)

I tell them the truth as I see it.

Some people believe X
Some people believe Y
Some people believe Z

(And so on- a little cultural anthropology/comparative religion discussion)

Then we talk about science, logic, reason, and philosophy.

And then I always tell them that no one can tell them what they believe (or should believe). Everyone needs to think for themselves, and we don't all come to the same conclusions.

I tell them to apply critical thinking skills and make their own decisions.

As the atheist father of three now-adult atheist children, I agree entirely.

I never said "there is no god, no heaven, etc.", I presented what various other people believed and then said what I believed.

If you DON'T teach children that believing in a religion is the default setting for human beings, then they quickly use their built-in Occam's razor (or BS meter, if you prefer).

If you don't force rubbish into children's heads, then they don't need to spend years clearing it all out again (as I did).

Oh yes, and CakeOrDeath is one of the best monikers I've seen for a long time ;-)

Tom in Paris

We were scared of what to tell our teen kids when we left the church. We ultimately sat them down and I told them we don't have all the answers in life and that we are still learning and growing too. That we no longer believe the mormon church is true, etc etc.

So far I haven't come out and directly told the kids I don't believe in a christian God, or in Christ, but we have talked about religion in general, and what people believe. We have definitely talked about things that we DON'T believe in, namely, mormon doctrine and principles. I have to tread lightly, because the youngest is still wanting to grasp onto some of the beliefs of the church, and if we push too hard he'll push back harder.

I definitely don't want my kids to grow up ignorant and deluded like I did, and have a hard time coming to grips with reality. I want them to be good people for the sake of being good, not because of some arbitrary rules and imaginary people.

This is what I told my gkids who asked:

There are basically three schools of thought in the world.

#1 - Judeo/Christian/Muslin - believe in one god. Heaven and hell and what you do in this life will determine where you end up after you die. They just have different rules but the core is the same.

#2 - Buddhist, Hindu (and some others) who believe in multiple gods/deities and believe in reincarnation. So what you do in this life will determine if you come back as an fly or a king.

#3 - Atheism - No belief in any after life whatsoever. At first one would think, okay this means live and let live but then when you think about it, no one really wants to be remembered as being a jerk so just be a good person so you are remembered as such.

The moral of the story is that we just don't know so just be a good person.

#3 - Atheism - No belief in any after life whatsoever.

I'd be careful about teaching this. There are some Atheists who believe there is a possibility that we continue on in some form after we die. Atheism is the belief that there is not a higher being (aka God) and that's where it ends.

exldsdudeinslc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> #3 - Atheism - No belief in any after life
> whatsoever.
>
> I'd be careful about teaching this. There are some
> Atheists who believe there is a possibility that
> we continue on in some form after we die. Atheism
> is the belief that there is not a higher being
> (aka God) and that's where it ends.


Actually, atheism is a *lack* of belief in claims other people make that "god" things exist. There are no beliefs in atheism.

Tell the truth. Keep it simple and age appropriate

and tell them you don't know for sure about some things.


It's a good thing for them to know. Keep that in mind.

I would not say "I don't know. Nobody knows where we go after we die." That's lying.

I would say "I don't believe in god. I don't think I will go anywhere when I die. I think it's my duty to make the best of this life. I could be wrong. I expect you to believe what you believe in, not what you think I want you to believe in. It may take you a long time before you figure out your answer to that question."

Atheists are not usually agnostics. They are atheist because they don't believe in a god. Not because they really aren't sure and maybe they'll run into the correct god someday.

In what way is this a lie? "'I don't know. Nobody knows where we go after we die.' That's lying."


It is ridiculous to call that lying. Saying you don't know is only a lie if you really do. And no one on the planet has any proof whatsoever what happens after death, so saying no one knows is a reasonable thing to say.

And you really don't understand Atheism at all.

blueorchid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In what way is this a lie? "'I don't know.
> Nobody knows where we go after we die.' That's
> lying."
>
>
> It is ridiculous to call that lying. Saying you
> don't know is only a lie if you really do. And no
> one on the planet has any proof whatsoever what
> happens after death, so saying no one knows is a
> reasonable thing to say.
>
> And you really don't understand Atheism at all.

Thanks Blue Orchid... I was thinking the same thing.

All children are born atheists.

Since I never brainwashed them away from that and into a superstitious belief system, I didn't have to tell them anything.

Our four little Mormon boys rather quickly morphed into proper godless heathens. It is amazing how after leaving the conversations around the dinner table turned wide open. No sacred cows (except the one on the plate). Once they got the hang of it everything was fair game. No topic off limits, no stone left unturned. We had a lot of fun. They all turned out to be honest and ethical free thinkers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2014 07:31PM by druid.

Those are really tender ages. I believe its the only time where"milk before meat" has any value. I told my children that the universe is so amazing and with all the possibilities that it holds I can't imagine that a soul, which is viable energy, cannot still exist once the body is gone. Children deserve the gentleness that hope brings. We don't know so why shove an alleged fact down their throats in the name of relative truth.