Is it that they don't work hard enough? Are they unwilling to lift themselves into leadership by the bootstraps? Any ideas?

TBM's would probably pick up their conference edition Ensign and point out the two African 70's. There are 118 top leaders on that centerfold, and 1.7% of them are black. The TBM would then explain that blacks are probably over-represented considering the make-up of the church.

I can think of one other TBM explanation: There were a lot more of them, but they became white and delightsome through their dedicated service.

The ward I grew up in has actually had two black bishops through the years. They are both very intelligent men. I'm surprised that they've stuck with the church as long as they have. I don't know where the first is at now, but the second is still active and has a son on a mission.

One more thought: Mormons believed up until recently that blacks were the cursed descendants of Cain, unworthy to hold the priesthood. We need to give some time for the old leadership that still believe that to die off.

But hasn't the old leadership denounced the mormon racism of the past?

IT was "denounced" with a wink and a nudge

Most of the handful of black members in Salt Lake are not descended from pioneers, are not wealthy, are not celebrities and do not have the requisite corporate business management experience.

That's what HR would tell you.


Kathleen Waters

Ooh. Good one!

Five years ago I saw Thurl Bailey at the Jordan River Temple. Somewhat of a surprise, but only because he's so damn tall. I think he should be the next apostle, but then they'd have to get a new podium. Or is it rameumptom? Not sure if he can wiggle his ears, cry on demand, speak with a German accent, etc. Gladys Knight should be the next General Relief Society President.

What I'd really like is a gospel music choir making the rounds at sacrament meetings. Really liven the place up. I might even go . . . but just for the floor show. I'd pay a $5 cover charge.

Why are not Blacks part of the leadership for the KKK?

I mean that would make more sense than having Blacks in MORmON leadership since the MORmON religion is MORE racist than the KKK !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvhJevwsaqM

If you research it you'll find that ALL top Mormon leaders are related by blood and/or marriage. It's an Old Boys Club of pure nepotism. By 2034 there's be more black Mormons than white Mormons, but, the top leadership will be all white, because, Mormon leaders only choose Apostles from relatives (by blood or marriage) they can trust. Joseph W.B. Johnson was a black African who had visions, and converted thousands to the Book of Mormon BEFORE 1978. NO WAY he'll ever be an Apostle.

" Joseph W.B. Johnson was a black African who had visions, and converted thousands to the Book of Mormon BEFORE 1978. NO WAY he'll ever be an Apostle"

Just goes to show, no matter what section of race or community, there are deluded idiots (perhaps mentally insane) amongst all of them.

Sigh... I really wish there were more black people in the church when I was a TBM. I can literally remember seeing only ONE black person in my entire life at church. I had to go outside the church to get me one! ;P And he is now my loving husband! <3

But by 2034 their will be Thomas I.K.I.A.P Monson III if their is one

What a racist topic. You should know by now that to be in the top GA positions - God only calls those from a certain blood line or God needs their skin tones or accent for political reasons. Almost all of the GA's are related to each other. The GA's are entrusted with keeping the family business alive and financially healthy.

What needs to happen is the children from the royal bloodline need to marry darkies and dilute the royal bloodline with the seed of Cain and bring darkies into the family. Then and only then will the pictures of the GA's be filled with darker faces.

I cannot believe how racist you people are. Wanting to know why the darker brethren are not in Leadership positions. You know the church is not racist. Everyone can donate money to the building up of the mall of God and all other such structures.

Please do not write racist things about the white Viking God that blesses white people more than darkies and Lamanites and Chinese, all manner of orientals and Mexicans. God loves them all just not enough to receive inspiration for white people who are the chosen ones after all.

If you have been offended by the truth, study the words of the prophets. Blame me not.

What a stupid religion. So sad I used to believe in it. Totally embarassed.

Why would blacks join the church? It is filled with hatred and racism. Even though it changed its policies in 1978, 15 years after the Civil Rights Act, it never issued an apology.

If you listen to Mormons, they act like blacks have rejected the church and deserve punishment. They never contemplate what it's like to be rejected and called less than human by an organization.

Even if a few blacks have joined since then, it would take a long time for them to climb the LDS hierarchy. It is filled with nepotism. No blacks could ever qualify for Mormon royalty, so that hinders their ability to climb the LDS Cursus Honorum.

That makes sense. I wonder what it would take for mormons to see things differently - or is it just cooked into them like the religious doctrine?

The Mormon Church is filled with racism and hatred????

How long were you a Mormon? Where did you observe this? I never observed either in the Church and was an active Member from 1980 to 1989. Please tell me what you saw/heard.

Samuel,

You're having a hard time answering my questions. I asked why blacks aren't a part of Mormon leadership.

Can you take a shot at an answer?

(edit: having read your post regarding blacks on another thread, don't bother answering this question. You're an admitted racist. That's all I'm trying to get to. So, thank you.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 05:36PM by thingsithink.

Please go read the lds.org gospel topics essay on Race and the Priesthood.

Those things they deny as being true were really taught in Sunday School - that God cursed people with a skin of blackness because they were less valiant in the war in heaven, among other offensive stories. And it trickled down to subtly influence the way members treat people of other races (they aren't that great with people of other religious backgrounds either, to be fair). In the 1980s a quote by SW Kimball urging people against interracial marriage was widely quoted in meetings and manuals.

You may not have been so sensitive to this depending on your ward. It wasn't really obvious to me growing up in an all-white ward. When I got older, and became involved with someone from a different race, that's when it all started to really become clearer to me. People are treated differently, and those special "language/culture" wards keep the Hispanics and Pacific Islanders and other groups separate from the white Utah Mormons, even overseas in the "expat" English branches. The very last straw for me was walking into an all-white ward in Southern California, in a town where white people were actually a minority. Outside in Target or the local schools, you experienced a rainbow of races and cultures. Inside the chapel, it was Utah, and my mixed race family was very uncomfortable about the things that were said.

The Mormon Church hierarchy, at the top, is an Old Boy's Club. All the men are related by blood and/or marriage, with the possible exception of Uchtdorf. All the rest are related. Mormon leaders only call Apostles men they implicitly TRUST. That means family. Again, Utchdorf may be the only exception I've ever heard of. If one of their white relatives married a black Mormon man, I think the older Apostles would be APPAULED, but they would accept it. I think the younger Apostles would not mind it. Apostles must be men whom they KNOW would not betray their secrets. How many active black Mormon men in Utah? Maybe.....300. How many of THEM have even been bishops? Maybe....1? They won't call a man to the Apostleship they don't absolutely TRUST. Joseph W.B. Johnson had visions, and seemed to work miracles. But they don't "trust" him. He could get up in General Conference one day and say, "Oh, the Lord has told me that the Mormon Church needs to ordain women" or something like that. The Brethren don't like those "little surprises". So, they will continue to call as Apostles ONLY men whom they KNOW will not betray them or their secrets.

I notice some of your most honest expressions - racists posts - have been deleted.

Certainly vestiges of racism remain,especially with members in their 80's,like most of the twelve and FP.However, I can also remember just 30 years ago when a member of my ward who was MIT,BYU grad. and had a son on a mission was still an elder and not a HP,and I was told that our Stake Pres. didn't like it that his wife had a full time job,when they still had two other teenagers at home? My point is the TSCC calls who they want,and they have in mind what kind of people they want-For those of you who served missions this was obvious,they also really like suckups most become ZL'S some AP's.Sadly,for years I believed it was all inspiration. I'M SO GLAD I'M OUT!!!!!!!

Or why aren't there more black members as well!???

In the South some churches are Black churches, and some are White. On Sundays there is more segregation than at any other time in the South.

By nature people tend to stick with people of the same race. Blacks and Whites often live in different neighborhoods. It is the same with religion.

There are Black Baptist churches and White Baptist churches. The difference between Baptists and Mormons is that there are no Black Mormon churches and White Mormon churches; there is just one Mormon church. Maybe the Mormons should have Black wards and White wards. That might make them seem less racist.

I wonder if Black Baptists and White Baptists are totally separate denominations. In that case, the top leaders would always be Black in one case, and White in the other. If there were Black Mormons and White Mormons, could they ever be totally separate? Could there be two "true churches"? Probably not. Even if there were Black Mormons and White Mormons, there would only be one top leadership, which would likely be White. That's the biggest problem Mormonism has in that area. Protestant churches are more equal, because they just use the Bible as the ultimate authority. Catholics are similar to Mormons, because the Pope is the ultimate authority, and I don't think there has ever been a Black Pope. It's a good argument to use in favor of Protestantism.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2014 02:11AM by behindcurtain.

"By nature people tend to stick with people of the same race. Blacks and Whites often live in different neighborhoods. It is the same with religion."

I disagree with this statement. Ever see young children on the playground? They don't segregate themselves. Their parents do. Racism is taught. Ever hear of "redlining?" Neighbourhoods are segregated because prospective black home owners can't buy a home there or the current owners won't sell to them. Separate black churches (AME) started in the North when the black parishioners would no longer tolerate the discrimination they faced in the established church. All of the major US Protestant denominations split into northern and southern branches before the Civil War and to my knowledge only a few of them have reunited after the war. By law everything was segregated in the old South -- including churches. Today, there are some evangelical churches that ARE integrated.


I agree with the previous posters about the families that run LD$, Inc. Eventually there will be some of these people that intermarry and my guess is within the next fifty years there will be at least one if not more of the Brethren that are black or mixed race.

I live here in South Carolina, where there are tons of different churches; Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Mormons, A.M.E., Episcopal, Catholic you name it we have it... Well back when I was growing up my mother was excommunicated from the Mormon church and had no intention of going back again. I became inactive and started dating a girl from another religious background, baptist... Well I started attending church with her for awhile. What I thought I knew growing up as a Mormon was wrong I threw it in the back of my mind and forgot about it. My Grandparents were members of the Assemblies of God.


Fast forward till this year. Remember I spoke about that Baptist church I attended because of a girl? Well one of the black baptist churches close to this one burned down and the congregation had nowhere to attend. The pastor of the one I went to reached out along with the congregation to welcome those of the black congregation, BUT they have different meeting times (self segregation) for the respective congregations.


I have attended an A.M.E. Church in the past. These churches are 99% black churches. The pastor looked at me, welcomed me with open arms. His comment at the pulpit was what stood out in my mind, even true today. He said we would like to extend a welcome to all those who are visiting, for God chose you to be here today. For the Master wants us to put away any hatred and accept all in attendance. After the service we all gathered around for a social, had a great time.

I guess that race has never really bothered me like it does some people. My mother always told me to accept people for who they are, not because of their skin color. To me I couple care less it you are green, blue, red, white, black, purple or what ever. I take people for who they are, their morals, core values and all.

Just because you have one standard doesn't mean my values are the same as yours. Respect is a big thing for me. Respect for you the person. I have spoken before that I am a Mason, well I kinda left and I guess one of the main reasons is because of this very thing that we are discussing here. I will hear from Lodge Brothers speak racial slurs. Sorry I just don't see things the way they do. I have met black Masons in the past and they are more open and genuine then my white lodge brothers.

To all my ExMo friends here

Peace be with you all.

John

There are no blacks, or Latino's or any other race of color in

the Mormon leadership because of racism in the mormon church.

So true. And there's science indicating that even people who don't think they are racist may judge groups of people based on their skin color.


http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/us/ferguson-racism-or-racial-bias/index.html?iref=allsearch

"In a classic study on race, psychologists staged an experiment with two photographs that produced a surprising result.
They showed people a photograph of two white men fighting, one unarmed and another holding a knife. Then they showed another photograph, this one of a white man with a knife fighting an unarmed African-American man.

When they asked people to identify the man who was armed in the first picture, most people picked the right one. Yet when they were asked the same question about the second photo, most people -- black and white -- incorrectly said the black man had the knife."

You are kidding right? Might just as well ask why blacks are not in high positions in the KKK. Really? Same diff.

so do black churches have paintings of black jesus ?

I remember some controversy about this not too long ago.

Yet the top leaders are enslaved by the corporation.

Like all things Mormon, they have an outward appearance of happiness and success, yet with some consideration these people do not have freedom of speech, thought, assembly, or public mention of votes or support of candidates.

They may have access to money. Their children probably have better access to LDS money, yet cannot show an over extended show of wealth.

I certainly would not want to be I their shoes.

It's okay for members to be black, as long as they don't act on it. The Lord has given all of us our own crosses to bear. White people have to go through life without a decent sense of rhythm, Asians are expected to get good grades, and Latinos are supposed to have refries with every meal. Things are tough all around.

Were a black man to assume the mantle of leadership, the adversary would redouble his efforts to corrupt that man. The absence of men of color among compensated officers is indisputable evidence that the church is primarily concerned with their welfare.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2014 05:37PM by donbagley.

There isn't enough black bench strength, and most leaders would argue that what exists should be in local areas where the need for them is greatest.

Here in the Holy Mecca of Mesa there are various branches and wards for Latinos and Tongans. I know SLC boasts numerous ethnic congregations of Samoans, Tongans and misc non-English speaking converts.

Imagine if there were sufficient numbers of baptized blacks in a locality to form their own ethnic ward.

They'd have much better music anyhow.

Well, going off of a 2007 Pew Research study, the racial composition of the US LDS church is as follows:

86% White
7% Hispanic
5% Other
3% Black

For the U.S. as a whole:

71% White
12% Hispanic
6% Other
11% Black

http://www.pewforum.org/2009/07/24/a-portrait-of-mormons-in-the-us/#3

Given that the LDS church membership is a *lot* less diverse than the U.S. population, along with the "old boy" network of the church, I think it's likely that you are not going to see much diversity among the top leadership. Plus you have no clamoring from below nor any outside pressure to diversify.

I have a bi-racial nephew getting baptized tomorrow. I gave his mom (my sister), and her black hubby some information about racism in TSCC so that they could really understand the dark racist past of this cult. Including, Breedom Young's qoutation about killing the dad, mom, and offspring of a bi-racial couple. I spoke with my temple patron TBM mother today, asking her if they had discussed the racism in the church to the 13 year old nephew and this is what she said,

"oh yeah, dad and I straightened it all out. We went to LDS.org, and we found the place where it talks about how therewas a war in heaven, and black were neutral there. Then their was Cain, the blacks were cursed descendants. We told him that black weren't as valiant, but still needed to eventually have the priesthood, so again the church is available to all."

In a horrified manner, I said, "OMG you did not tell that child that because he is black he was less valiant in teh pre-existence and that his black skin is a curse...because this is racism pure and simple..you cannot tell a child that he is inferior to the white man in any way...that is wrong...unbelievable." She said, "we never said the word inferior."

Crazy racist ass mormons. Yeah, this is why there ain't no blacks in their leadership. My parents have over 100 years of "valiant" service to this cult.