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Posted by: misterzelph ( )
Date: November 25, 2014 06:55PM

Having a discussion with TBM. where in the BofM does it say that having sex with a dark person is so disgusting?

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 25, 2014 06:57PM

that was a BY quote.

'of course' all BY ever said was 'scripture', correct?

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Posted by: misterzelph ( )
Date: November 25, 2014 06:59PM

No it's in the b of m. The reason why they have a dark skin is to make them repulsive to whites

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 25, 2014 07:03PM

Brigham Young comments about blacks

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind . . . Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290).
"In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the "servant of servants," and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 172).
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

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Posted by: mothermayeye ( )
Date: November 25, 2014 10:10PM

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brigham Young comments about blacks
>
> "You see some classes of the human family that are
> black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in
> their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of
> nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that
> is generally bestowed upon mankind . . . Cain slew
> his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that
> would have put a termination to that line of human
> beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a
> mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black
> skin." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290).
> "In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said
> by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the
> slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for
> such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that
> the children of Ham were to be the "servant of
> servants," and no power under heaven could hinder
> it, so long as the Lord would permit them to
> welter under the curse and those were known to be
> our religious views concerning them." (Journal of
> Discourses, vol. 2, p. 172).
> "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the
> African race? If the white man who belongs to the
> chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain,
> the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the
> spot. This will always be so." (Journal of
> Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

Wtf? if I wasn't already out of TSCC this statement alone would shatter my shelf. Once again I am embarrassed to have EVER been a member of that sick-asss cult!!!

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Posted by: michaelm (not logged in) ( )
Date: November 25, 2014 07:07PM

2 Nephi 5:21-23
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/5?lang=eng

21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

22 And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.

23 And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.

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Posted by: RPackham ( )
Date: November 25, 2014 07:08PM

misterzelph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Having a discussion with TBM. where in the BofM
> does it say that having sex with a dark person is
> so disgusting?

Alma 3:8-9
2 Nephi 5:21-23

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 25, 2014 07:18PM

they were all 'Speaking as a Man'!

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Posted by: PapaKen ( )
Date: November 25, 2014 07:31PM

that, PLUS..... BY was a human being, right? It was just a mistake, when BY cursed an entire human race. No profits are perfect.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 25, 2014 07:25PM

BY used the word 'black', which is more specific than the BoM scripture cited/quoted.


OOPS! it's also in the scripture (blush)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 07:26PM by GNPE.

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Posted by: randyj ( )
Date: November 25, 2014 07:46PM

In 2003, I debated this issue with a TBM named Guy Briggs. Guy was trying to reconcile in his mind the racist implications of the BOM verses where God turned the Lamanites "dark and loathsome" to distinguish them from the "white and delightsome" Nephites. Guy advocated that the skin-color change thing wasn't literal, and that the "real" Lamanite curse was being denied the spirit of God. In this thread, Guy wrote:

> Personally, I'm of the school that doesn't take the dark-skin thing
>literally.
>bestRegards, Guy.

I responded:

And what "school" would that be, Guy? The School Of Closet Apostates Who
Really Don't Believe The Book Of Mormon Is Literal?

A major premise of the BOM is that it gives the alleged explanation for the
skin color of American Indians: It's the mark of the "curse" of God.

That premise has been repeated by LDS leaders from Joseph Smith down to Gordon
B. Hinckley.

Whilst you repeat your assertion that "the curse was their being separated from
God," the BOM states clearly that the "wicked Lamanites" had their skins turned
"dark and loathsome" so that they wouldn't be "enticing" to the "white and
delightsome Nephites."

Now, if you had half a brain, you would acknowledge that that verbiage means
that the way a "righteous Nephite" could identify a "wicked Lamanite," and thus
avoid interbreeding with them, was their "dark and loathsome" skin color.

And that makes it obvious that the verbiage in the BOM about skin color
referred to a literal situation, as opposed to your inane idea that it wasn't
"literal."

When you write things like this that directly oppose what the BOM clearly says,
and which have been reiterated by LDS church leaders, what you are really
telling us is that you don't believe the BOM is factual, and that LDS leaders
don't have any credibility in expounding doctrine.

Randy J.

End quotes. Throughout the BOM storyline, the word "white" is repeatedly associated with "delightsome," and "dark" is similarly paired with "loathsome."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 07:50PM by randyj.

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Posted by: Doubting Thomas ( )
Date: November 25, 2014 10:16PM

Good stuff Randy.

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Posted by: randyj ( )
Date: November 26, 2014 10:18AM

...explain away the obviously racist implications of the BOM storyline. Today's native Americans are supposedly the literal descendants of those "dark and loathsome" Lamanites. The fact that modern native Americans are still dark-skinned means that they're still "cursed," according to the BOM's clear teachings.

I'd love to hear some Mormon GA give a sermon in which he reminds young native American Mormon girls that, according to the holy scriptures, they aren't "enticing" to white Mormon boys.

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