The more I read on this site about how people are afraid or being insulting or sarcastic etc. toward the CULT members. Why?

They are still huge pains in the ass because people are to nice to them. Be rude, nasty, sarcastic, in their face. They don't get the message/point unless you really hit them when they live and hit them hard. Sell you wimp outfit to someone for Halloween and put on you brave "tell them off" outfit and get this EVIL cult out of your life. Get some balls and put and end to the CULT. Get the EVIL out of your live forever.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2015 01:46AM by verilyverily.

I got over my anger and hatred many years ago. Now it is much more fun to gently probe them for their stupidity. The deer in the headlights blank look is the goal. You want them to have no immediate canned Mormon response. A direct attack just triggers the indoctrination and a defensive reaction.

Critical thinking in Mormonism is strongly discouraged to the point where most long term members do little to none.

It is almost never the one big thing that triggers the apostacy. It's a collection of small incongruencies that eventually causes the blinders to fall off. I like to feed them one little small thing at a time. A reasonable, joking or quiet tone can get through where a direct attack is ignored.

Same here.

I have no anger left. I know it's not the case with others, but it was easy for me to leave. Very easy.

They aren't worth the energy to stay in a pissed off mood. They simply aren't worth it.

I've tried both approaches in the past but they're taught that the more aggressive approach is evidence of "loss of spirit" and that makes them feel superior.

But on a couple of occasions I've come across "clever dick" missionaries and I returned like for like.

It has less to do with them, and more to do with how I choose to deal with people.

I prefer the high road. It's that simple. I don't feel either the need or the desire to do otherwise.

So when YOU were a cult member how would YOU have appreciated people insulting and belittling you?

And would that type of behaviour have helped you as a cult member/victim?

It's like road rage. It actually helps nobody but someone with a personaliity disorder and poor self-esteem issues might feel better about swearing and screaming at another driver who made a mistake or whatever.

Anger is just an indication of how much emotion you have about something. When people decide to explode with vitriolic, rage-filled rants against the church, it's the church that's winning, because the church is the one that is holding the person with anger emotionally hostage. When someone can just brush off the church, it's tactics, forms of control, snide comments made by members towards ex-members, and can approach issues with the church in controlled, measured, emotionally distant ways, the church has lost.

It's not just the church that uses this cult-like ploy. Lots of churches (cults) use emotions and emotional ties to bind members to them. When the emotion is gone, the hate is gone, and what's left is just to really not care. I can't say I'm personally all the way there, but I'm certainly much better at being objective and critical in a remote sense than I was years ago.

Being nice to members- assuming they are decent t you- is just part of the social contract. Their is no recent not to be nice to everyone, even if they aren't nice to you. It's about being above a certain kind of behavior, a behavior people know is inherently not acceptable. Obviously, some occasions call for certain exceptions, but in general, there is no reason not to just be decent to everyone.

Now if missionaries and relief society sisters and HP group leaders and Bishopric members etc. etc. etc. knock on your door and call your phone, day after day after day, and still don't get the message, it's time to tell them to fuck off, turn on the hose, and threaten beatings and other indicators of ill will.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2015 05:46AM by midwestanon.

I wouldn't think it's helpful to let TBMs run anyone's life. It's usually better to stand up to bullies. They tend to be cowards and will eventually skulk off if pushed.

"Insult" is a strong word. I don't mind anyone "insulting" extreme aggressors, however. What bothers me a little are those who come here and say they're upset by "contention," so they put up with mistreatment forever. No need to lie down like a rug when big boots storm through a room.

Stand up and be brave!

What is your goal? If your goal is to speak so that members of the Church might listen and examine their relationship with the Church, then I advise people to speak factually but respectfully.

Unlike many people on this forum I will never refer to the Church as TSCC or Churchco or LD$Inc or the Cult or whatever. A Church member reading this is not ready to hear about the Church in those terms. The same applies to Joseph Smith. He will always be Joseph Smith - not that liar, conman, pedophile, etc. - even if those crimes or character flaws are the subject I am discussing.

We can dispute claims from the Church without insulting people. Remember most LDS members are both sincere in their testimonies while holding shelves full of doubts that they dare not reveal to anyone. They have no release for such topics within their marriage, family, relatives or friends at Church. A Church member can be very lonely inside.

I am at the other end of recovery. The only TBMs I still have in my life treat me well.

I am currently working at validating their religious choices. They are not stupid, mean or even thoughtless. Their experiences in life led them to choose the church, and in their shoes, who knows, I might have too.

I no longer want to take even passive aggressive stabs at their relious or political views. I love them, and that overrides the rest.

Thank you heresy and SuzyQ. You both said it so well. Kindness matters.

How I treat people depends largely on what I want the outcome to be. I don't view yelling or insults as cathartic, so these actions do not provide any kind of meaningful outlet.

1) A lot of Mormons are decent if misguided people. It's not their fault they got an outdated ward directory or whatever and landed at my doorstep. I also know that within 5 years, half of them will have joined me on the inactive/resigned dark side. I don't want them to have bad memories of ex-Mormons that may preclude that.

2) Yelling is harmful to the person doing it. For most people, they may think it's an outlet, but it actually has negative health effects.

3) I'm not interested in degrading discourse any further. If you can't explain yourself without resorting to insults or yelling, then you need to revisit how you communicate in general.

4) I have good memories of many Mormons and am still friends with many. I do now want to ever hear one of them tell me a story like "I got my new home teaching assignments, and this <insert Mormon pejorative> shouted and insulted me for 10 minutes after I called!" In other words, don't justify the 'bitter apostate' stereotype.

I like your post verilyverily. I take it as being targeted at those who let Mormons get away with whatever they want--who lay right down and be doormats desperately hoping to "still be liked."

Maintaining relationships with TBMs seems to become a very entangled game and they always play with an extra deck. I just don't play.

I made it very clear to all of my family just how I felt about their church. I was blunt. I was clear. This stopped the hit and run remarks Mormons tend to depend on to make their point.

In other words,"Blow it up big and then rebuild." I have found that works best, but in the end you will always be the lost sheep and they will always be Heavenly Father's special pets.

So I just stay away. Do the duty visits with the elderly parents, but that is basically it. I have had a big wonderful life and that was the best response.

Expressing heart felt intent does not necessarily involve insults.

You don't want Mormons harassing you in your home? It's your legal and moral right tell them to stay away.

None of us owe Mormons more than we owe our own spouses and families.

There's no need to invite them in if a hungry family is waiting for dinner or if a child is ill or needs help with homework. We can tell them, "I don't appreciate this intrusion. Spread the word that I will not accept Mormon visitors. Goodbye."

Mormons will likely think they've been insulted, but in fact they have not. They're the intruders and harassers and they wouldn't like atheists hounding them in their houses any more than non-mos like TBMs who trespass.

It's never valid to sacrifice one's own family in favor of strangers or near strangers who show up uninvited, especially if they've been informed that their visits are unwelcome.

There are 4 ways to handle this(or more)

1. Insult them

2. Be offended and avoid them. This is what I tend to do.

3. Give them back what they dish out. This is what I probably should do. When they say something pro Mormon, counter with something factual. This is putting up a boundary. This is being equal in a ideological conversation. Tit for tat.

I do find that Mormons change the subject if you don't add positives to their pro Mormon conversation.

4. Stop any pro Mormon digs by stating to loved ones that I've left and am not interested in ever going back, so don't even bother trying. With this one I'm afraid they would run to the bishop and call me an apostate and make a big deal about it and excom me. So maybe if one resumes then this would be an option.

The criticisms of LDS Inc. has many valid reasons, but insulting people doesn't move opinions. For those that remember the Sunday closing law, the formerly filed out cards for liquor purchases from the State Store ending up with the SP or life before liquor by the drink understand the bitterness many people feel, but those things were changed by making people face up to facts.

Correction "filled" out

Because we were all members at some point, so that's pretty damn hypocritical.

Because people who insist on being rude are universally considered to be jerks?

The LDS folks in my life were very important to me. One was my husband, who died after over 50 years of marriage.
His religious beliefs were just as valuable and important to him (which created his World View - generational!), as mine were to me -- and he was able to accept that I could change my mind. He knew he married a convert.

I have several reasons for being accepting of LDS folks: I want my loved ones in my life in a positive relationship. No need to fuss over a difference of opinion about religious views. Just too petty, in my view.

I don't want people being rude and nasty to me so I practice the Golden Rule and try my best to treat others with the same kindness I want in return. Usually, it works!

Ultimately, we are all human beings, doing the best we know how to get through each day. Respect and decency and kindness goes both ways. Always give, even if you don't receive. That is always about them anyhow. Be understanding. Have compassion and empathy whether you get it back or not.

Life is short. You never know when you are in your last day or the last day of someone you love. Make life worth living for yourself and others.

It's about respecting other people and treating them the way you want to be treated -- never call someone something you don't want to be called. You want to be insulted and called names? Why, why would anyone do that to someone else?? Aren't we all adults by now??

We have the right in this country to our personal religious beliefs. One is not right or wrong, they are all valuable to the person. The more we strive to understand and respect others the better our life becomes.

My view? Knock off calling people cultists and other pejoratives just because you don't agree with their religious views. There is much more at stake here. It's our responsibly as a citizen to show some respect and at a minimum honor the Constitution. Time to grow up and be adults and show emotional maturity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2015 02:26PM by SusieQ#1.

Besides what's already been mentioned...

Some still have family they have to live with, deal with, and put up with that are in the cult. Being brutally honest with them can sometimes prompt extreme ostracism measures on their part -- being kicked out of a home, getting divorce papers filed, etc.
Sometimes discretion really is the better part of valor. When merited.

What it comes down to is that dealing with Mormons is not a black and white situation.
Thinking that it is,,, is to go back to the black and white thinking that is Mormonism.

I see all kinds of grey in life, and that includes dealing with those who happen to be LDS

The way I see it, there are some things that further entrench the belief that the outside world is evil, hateful, etc. That is one that doesn't help me convince my wife that she is wrong.

Good points made above.

I get standing up for yourself if being harassed, but if they're leaving me alone, I don't see any reason to go after them.

I have also learned that pretty much everyone, even exmos, including me, have some kind of beliefs that are irrational. I know I do stupid things and don't necessarily want to hear about them.

I like talking to missionaries and other members. Generally good people, and I recall being where they were. I think my intentions were good. Now when they ask about my church beliefs, I don't tell them its BS, but gently suggest that life in the Celestial Kingdom isn't for me, so why work toward it. I mean, polygamy and streets of gold and sitting in meetings and on and on.....

Because insulting cult people "proves" to them that you are a horrible, ungodly person, and they are being persecuted for being so "righteous". It makes them feel justified in condemning you, and cementing their own opinions.

Gotta love verily. That's passion and fire for truth.

I've noted over time verily is one serious ass-kicker and I love it. That attitude is awesome and a necessary counter-balance to the trepidation and fear so many leaving Mormons have about expressing their true feelings.