OK, maybe creepy is a strong word but there really does seem something about Mormon women and it's not that they are a virtuous light unto the world like they claim. There is just a sort of emptiness there, barely covered by forced friendliness, determined happiness and perpetually being a "good example". Their image barely covers a certain cattiness, an insecure arrogance, a insincere concern and a sugar-coated tendency toward backstabbing. Maybe it's because they have to be what the church says and can't be who they really are. Maybe it's the rush to marriage that leaves them, by their 40s, with a husband they can hardly relate to. Maybe it's because of being completely dismissed by husbands who are more interested in their giant priesthoods than by their "trophy" wives. Or it might be a result of their own poor choice to put their relationship with the church and it's needs ahead of a good husband and his needs. Possibly it's just a lack of education - not just because they wanted to rush to the temple and start popping out babies instead of going to college. But because they really can't talk about anything other than the church for very long and have no intellectual curiosity about anything "worldly".

All I know is, there are very few of them I want to be like or feel are a good example for my pre-teen daughter. There are a few but when I look at the Young Women's leadership in our ward, for example, I just don't want my daughter to turn out like most of them. Not the tired, baby-voiced, perpetually happy but drained looking president. Not the beautiful counselor who is always trying to lay a guilt trip on her never-mo husband about how they won't be a forever family - and flirting shamelessly with the bishop when her husband isn't there. Hoping for a priesthood upgrade, I guess. Not the 26-year-old with 3 kids who already looks as faded as the 48ish year old president and who bore her testimony about how frightened she was she wouldn't be a good enough mother to get her kids back to the celestial kingdom with her. They make me nervous - I can hear my voice raise in pitch when talking to TBM women and I never know what to say. Looking back, I realize I've never been able to relate to them. Nowadays, Mormon women, who were always held up as the pinnacle of what I should want in life, the ideal of what I should be, are now as creepy to me as the religion that spawned them.

Yes, all, and I do mean all, the TBM women I've been around are like that. There's something missing in them, and there's either the miserable, flat affect, which is really disturbing and sad, or the thinly veiled animosity, not quite hidden behind the determined permasmirk; you do NOT want to trust them to even borrow a pencil.

The "mormon" women who are not like that are clearly not TBM - they're Jack, so who knows for sure what's underneath?

I prefer what you see is what you get.

Neither of us attend the ward - and my daughter only has been to Young Women's twice with her best friend because they were having really fun activities. I just know these women because they are part of the ward I belonged to for years, before the blessing of high speed internet freed me. Seeing how these women act is one more reason I'm grateful I'm not part of it any more and it motivates me to make sure my daughter's life turns out better. They creep her out too.

Mrs Truthseeker got upset this morning when my oldest asked her why she always puts church ahead of the family.

On a separate note, Mrs Truthseeker told me she wants to start teaching part-time so she could spend more time with the girls (they are all in school and she would only gain 6 hours/wk with them). I told her I would only support that if she dropped her Primary Pres and VTg callings which take at least 5 hours of her time each week.

Truthseeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I told her I would only support that if she
> dropped her Primary Pres and VTg callings which
> take at least 5 hours of her time each week.

LOL. My wife is a Primary Pres and 5 hours is an understatement.

its insanity with more disdain than I do--especially the women because I never fit in with them, but I have to say that I know many who aren't like that. Maybe it is my age--but there are even those who are my age who act like that. Like the one who sent me the "Valentine" with a family picture (who told me on the evening of my birthday several years ago that she was going to take me to lunch for my birthday, but she had something else she had to do that day--LIKE I WANTED TO GO WITH HER?!? I let her know what I DID DO--and it was significant)

I know many just like the ones you are talking about, but I also know so many who aren't. My best friend in this ward is in her 70s--close to 80s. One of the neatest ladies I've ever known. She always tells me like it is. She stopped me one day while I was out walking and said, "I just read that JS's dad drank alcohol all the time. Just think how much happier we'd be if we could drink!!" She hates polygamy and makes no bones about it--told her opinion many times in lessons.

I know a lot of women just like her. It really may be the age--but it may just be the women.

I agree that there are exceptions to this and I've wondered why. What makes the Mormon women I like seem so different than the ones that I find scary. I think it boils down to one thing. The women who seem more grounded have a life outside of Mormonism. I rarely talk about the church when I'm with them, although their nephew's mission may come up or something like that. But my friend that is a lawyer talks about what she is doing, my friend who is a midwife talks about her work or whatever New Age, aromatherapy discovery she's made that helps her clients and my friend the health food nut is always on about what she's discovered or read lately. They may be Mormon women, but it isn't their main definition of themselves. It's more of an accessory.

What I do know is that my sister refuses to live in Utah (she is the one TBM left in my family besides my disabled brother) because of mormon women. She considers them stepford wives.

I always detested the "mormon woman" image. It may have played a role in who I married also. I have always LOVED going against the grain--but tried really hard to be a good mormon because I believed it.

I have this one neighbor--she moved in after I went inactive, but was assigned as my visiting teacher. I thought she was borderline polygamist by how she wears her hair. She is one of the most liberal mormons I know and she always comes to talk to me because she says she just doesn't fit in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2011 01:22PM by cl2.

I agree with you! I'm a never-mo with several Mormon friends, some VERY religious and some not so, but they all go to church regularly and are actively involved. Two women I know give the "creepy" impression, and all they talk about is church; one does it to cover her ignorance and lack of experience with anything except church; the other does it to present herself as the mother of a perfect family, with a perfect husband, in perfect obedience to church rules, and to keep herself out of intellectual discussions which she cannot handle. On the other hand, two other women are not the least creepy! They both hold full-time professional jobs that require advanced degrees; their interests are varied. Both married non-members who joined the church. I can think of two others, as well, not the least "creepy", with non-member (and non-religious) husbands. These women have interests in community activities but are also involved with church. I think it's a matter of exposure; if they know nothing but "church" they're apt to be "creepy"; I've seen it in another denomination, as well. The glazed-over, spaced-out look is culty, but not specific to Mormons.

My heart goes out to Mormon women

The deeper and more TBM they are, the more dysfunctional they seem to be.

The most TBM, always fall into the following categories:

The Sheri Dew Immitators:
--These are the ones that talk and act the most like LDS Men, and Leaders.

It's the ultimate way of acting out.
--Your existence serves little purpose, so you try to mimick the behavior of those who do.

--They are the ones who always weilding the worthiness hammer over their poor husbands, and passive aggressively chide him for not having a "higher" calling

The Dreamers:
--These women believed the fanatasies that they were taught in YW, and dont understand why they didnt become real.

They tend to be emotionally troubled and keyed up on medication.

The Polly-Annas:
--A off shoot of The Dreamers.

They believe the fantasies that they have been taught, and damn it, they are going to make it happen.

These are the ones who are always perfect looking, perfect smiling, give the perfectly toned and cadenced testimonies.

They often are very attractive.

Passive-Aggressive to the core: If they are single, they are constantly setting up the poor guy they are dating, with worthiness tests.

If they are married, they are the ones with the polaroid picture looking family, but behind the scenes she is a walking disaster, her son is rebellious and hates being deacon, the daughter is a little tramp, and the husband wants to be at home as little as possible.

The Busy Bee's:
--Every second of every day is filled with PTA Meetings,Temple Service, Visiting Teaching, Neighborhood Welcome Wagon, Home Owner Association Meetings, and a million other activities.
--the busy bee HAS to keep moving. If she doesnt, she will have time to realize how utterly empty her life is, and have to load up on anti-depressents.

Mormonism does an unbelievable number on women.

Some experiences with TBM women have made it hard for me to trust them. Being naive to the behavior at first (husband is inactive but linked to TBM's), there were a few women who I believed were truly nice people. Then a few experiences made me find out what they are really like. They are actually shady, manipulative women who just pretend to be nice, for their religion's sake.
One of them is extremely selfish and nasty, but she only shows that side to people who she feels have wronged her (aka people who don't kiss up to her). Around everyone else she pretends to be a sweet, innocent person. Try telling any of those people what she's really like, and they choose not to believe it (because they've never seen her dark side for themselves).

So it's hard for me to feel comfortable around the TBM women who act very nice, because I have no way of knowing if it's genuine or if it's all an act.

I live in the wonderful "Happy Valley" (Utah County for those who want to know), but I work in Salt Lake City. It is amazing to me how you can pick them out just by seeing their faces. There is definitely an emptiness there and something else that is hard to describe. It is like a sadness, a self loathing, a look of being lost or maybe just numb. Oh they pretend to be happy and they fill their time doing all manner of "service work" in their callings for the church, but behind those eyes lies something that once recognized is unmistakable. If a woman is a true TBM, and I mean she believes fully in the church, you can pick her out of a thousand similar faces of non-mormon women because of that look.

In addition to the look in their eyes you can tell by the way they carry themselves. They have a walk that is like they are carrying a very heavy burden, and I guess in reality they are. They are carrying a very heavy emotional burden placed there by an organization that tells them they have to do so very much just so they can obtain a place in a heaven where they will be nothing more than one of many breeders to their glorious priesthood holding husbands.

Because you know what underwear they have on...

and that's stressful.

They struggle with normal human doubts and fears and weaknesses, the stuff that everyone deals with in this life. But they're supposed to have it all together, to be perfect, to look happy and confident, to have great kids and a great house.

So you've got this private world of imperfection, but you're trying to be worthy and sharp on the outside. And they're tired. Small wonder they turn to prescription drugs to take away the anxiety.

It doesn't help to blame them or be nasty with them. They need compassion. They're playing the game the way they've been told to play it.

Very well said. I find myself struggling as I see both of my (older) TBM sisters slipping into the abyss. One just started anti-depressants (which isn't necessariloy a bad thing, I just wonder how much better life could be without TSCC involved instead) and the other, well...she could probably use them too since she's not going to leave the church anytime soon, either.

I used to not have much a relationship with either of them. I was the shiftless, inactive, struggling little sister while they were leading the "supposed to" lives which weren't as outwardly tramatic. As I got my act together and was no longer consumed by shame for who I was/am I was able to develop a better relationship with one of them, at least. But now, I feel like I am now the more successful (emotionally speaking) of us I have a hard time talking to her lately. She's miserable. Yet I don't know how to say, "Hey, you know that place you turn to for strength? That's the thing that's beating you down." She wouldn't hear me.

Especially that wife of Utah governor Leavitt.

It hurt my ears to listen to her speak.

I wouldn't call them "creepy" but sometimes the behavior can be unsettling. I have some theories about why this is...

Part of it is that they are in an abusive relationship and don't realize it. They LOVE the abuser (in this case mormonism and the church) and will defend it to the end. Part of remaining in denial means that they can seldom follow trains of thought about roles of women and mormonism to the logical conclusion so instead focus on superficial doctrine/policy.

For example, celestial polygamy... TBMs focus on the "forever family", will testify about how great it is but seldom follow the thought to the 'your goal in existance is to become 1 wife out of 100s'".

The baby talk from a middle aged woman creeps me right out. I'm sorry for whatever has happened to cause a grownup to talk in that mincing, baby-like way that many Mormon women speak, but it's creepy to me.

Another different Mormon personality type is the holier-than-thou silent scrutinizer. I can't do anything right around someone like that, so I'm not even going to try. That type of thing is also creepy.

I think Mormon men are also creepy though. Basically, Mormons are creepy.

the majority of the non-creepy smart women have left ? :-)
I know many LDS women who are smart and not creepy! :-)

It has to do with having interests outside the church and being able to talk about things other than the church and relate to the world as it is, not through a fog of Mormonism.

My attorney friend is one of the smartest women I know - and very Mormon. But she doesn't come across as creepy because she is well-rounded and can relate to a life outside the church. And she can talk about anything - she's very interesting. But a lot of the Mormon women I know don't have those qualities. That Mormon persona is not impressive to me at all and some women cling to it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2011 02:50PM by CA girl.

I've known plenty of TBM women who weren't creepy at all as they have a life and interests outside of church. I have run into creepy Mormon women, whose only interests are the church, and who judge women who work outside the home, or who didn't get pregnant right away.

I think one reason why Mormon blogs are appealing is that sometimes you can see cracks in the perfect Mormon persona. Sometimes it's a child eloping instead of having a temple ceremony because the child in-law has insane parents who tried to break them up. Then, that newly wed couple has decided to delay having children for a while, even if they're capable of having children.

This is a trivial thing, but I do find it creepy, or at least cringe-worthy: I have noticed many TBM women (both talking to them in-person and having occasionally read Mormon posts in online mothers' forums, etc.) use what are, to me, very childish words, like, "Oh, poo-poo!" I can respect that many people do not want to use more vulgar words like s***, etc., but seriously, "poo-poo"? And I don't mean that they were talking to their young child, either...I mean they are using terms like that as "swear" words. It makes me cringe. At least say "heck" or something slightly more adult-sounding!

"There is just a sort of emptiness there, barely covered by forced friendliness, determined happiness and perpetually being a "good example". Their image barely covers a certain cattiness, an insecure arrogance, a insincere concern and a sugar-coated tendency toward backstabbing."

That describes it so well!