Saw this awesome quote from Uchtdorf (GC 2015) on my FB today:

"let me be clear: there is nothing noble or impressive about being cynical. Skepticism is easy - anyone can do it. It is the faithful life that requires moral strength, dedication, and courage. Those who hold fast to faith are far more impressive than those who give in to doubt when mysterious questions or concerns arise."

Excuse me while I go vomit.

This is so offensive on so many levels but ALSO a great way to emotionally manipulate members into thinking that people who leave are evil (you know, "not noble") and making a mistake, that members who stay are better, and that apparently any doubts are silly ("mysterious"????), and that FAITH is more important than truth. Good way to keep the sheeple in line.

I am more noble that Oooochdurf ever dreamed of being....I grew food for a living. Just saying.

RB

My little finger is more "noble" than his whole stinking, hateful

body.

Noble fingers.... Amén!

He's not talking about *all* faith, but only faith in Mormonism--an important distinction he fails to make.

So, those "who give in to doubt" and abandon their faith in Catholicism, for instance, "when mysterious questions or concerns arise," and embrace faith in Mormonism are very impressive indeed.

But those who abandon their faith in Mormonism, in the same way, and embrace faith in Catholicism, I'd guess wouldn't be quite so noble in Uchtdorf's eyes.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2016 08:24PM by lurking in.

Skepticism is easy when everyone around you is scorning it? When they judge you for exercising it? When you are denied resources and punished for being skeptical? Only a heartless person without empathy would say that.

He also said to doubt doubt, which is idiotically redundant. He may be German, but in no way is he germane.

I was always told in Sunday school
I was a noble spirit!
So at least I have that! Also I have time for noble
Pusuits such as consumption of alcohol which softens Uchies blow!

What a Wank!

This is the hot one? LOL

Verily verily I say unto you, what excrement that spewith out of his mouth. ......lol

His statement demonstrates some of the bankruptcy of Mormonism. Holding fast to truth must always precede and become the foundation for faith. Mormonism puts that cart in front of the horse.

Want to see some real nobility and bravery? Head over to the exit stories and see people who placed everything they hold dear in jeopardy simply due to their embrace of the truth. They risked (and many lost) families, jobs, and homes, simply because they embraced truth.

Earth to Uchtdorf: The Third Reich is over.

Exmomons are courageous and they use their brains. Sadly Mormons don't.

"Those who hold fast to faith are far more impressive than those who give in to doubt when mysterious questions or concerns arise."


Replace "doubt" with "facts" and the utter idiotness of his quote shines through.

IMO it also reads almost like a challenge to members to embrace stupidity and stay with the church. :-)

That is both hilarious and genius. And maybe sad too.

In other words, shut up and just believe and you're wonderful.
Start fact-checking or learning, and you're disgusting.

Wrong.

Implicit in his comments are the words...IN US (meaning the Q-15)--

"let me be clear: there is nothing noble or impressive about being cynical IN US. Skepticism is easy IN US - anyone can do it. It is the faithful life that requires moral strength, dedication, and courage IN US. Those who hold fast to faith IN US are far more impressive than those who give in to doubt IN US when mysterious questions or concerns arise IN US."

Fuck yeah, Dieter!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2016 10:43PM by byuboner.

There is real change, though. There's a bill board on the border of Utah and Salt Lake Counties and for decades its been "Temple 'o the Seasons:" an advertisement for the Salt Lake temple decked out in spring flowers (stand ye all amazed!), advertising Xmas lights (go see 'em!), etc. Now there's a huge pic of a doe-eyed Jesus. You know, except for the Cristus, I have never seen a picture of Jesus advertising the LDS church. For a second I thought Evangelicals took over that billboard. Tscc is mainstreaming Jesus now, is JS really that disgraced?

Also there's a new, big billboard saying, essentially, doubting? don't tear your faith out by the roots. The faithful will say, "Oh, okay," for many years. But once they ask, "Really? Why not?" it's all over, because there is no good answer to that question. Before now, though, I'd never seen an LDS billboard that even publically acknowledged anyone doubted. Now it's on a billboard, for all to see.

So he's skeptical of skepticism...

Faith makes a virtue out of not thinking logically.

When you give up your family for integrity... you are not noble

When you are ostracized by friends for speaking the truth... you are not noble.

When presented with their falseness you willingly give up cherished beliefs because of honesty... you are not noble.

When break the traditions of your community and generations of your family for authentic living... you are not noble.

When you accept and love others unconditionally.... you are not noble.

When you stand-up against tyranny, abuse, manipulation and think for yourself.. your are not noble.

When you make decisions rationally, alone, and overcome your fears through strength of character with no reliance on a external powerful being... you are not noble.

When you place more worth in integrity, than in honor from the view of others... you are not noble.

I hope that I am never noble in the eyes of Uchtdorf. I'll wallow in my unbelief for the rest of my life. Strangely enough it feels much more like happiness.... Go figure.

^^^this!^^^^

I have a noble finger for Didi, too. it's always standing up straight for people like him to salute.


It is wrong to doubt because of the mysterious concerns they brought up with their essays, too? I saw so many fallen apart after only reading the essays. Some of them where folks so uber tbm that I'd bet my butt that they will never ever allow any doubts. I am excited for this because usually people in Germany just dissappear and no one ever talked about the "why" - but church itself has created a movement of people who demands answers, who ask questions and who feel the need to discuss the whole thing. Since a few month the CES letter was finally fully translated and is handed out to the people. I even met people who disappeared decades ago without saying a word and now speaking up how much they were hurt, how families were destroyed and so on.
This year we had Sunstone in Birmingham - but chances are good that the next one will be held in Germany.

Sorry Didi but I noticed a little mistake in your words:
"It is the faithful life that requires moral strength, dedication, and courage. Those who hold fast to faith are far more impressive than those who give in to doubt when mysterious questions or concerns arise."
You misspelled some words but I corrected them for you:
"It is the searching for the truth that requires moral strength, dedication, and courage. Those who hold fast on their skepticism and doubts and go after them are far more impressive than those who simply drink some more gallons of Kool-Aid when questions or concerns arise."
You are welcome honey.

Ignorance is also easy. Anyone can ignore facts that contradict their own beliefs. Bigots do it all the time.

Doesn't this statement of not being skeptical throw JS under the bus?

After all, wasn't he skeptical about which church to join?

What about Martin Luther?

They used to honor him as part of the apostasy and early attempts to restore the church.

Suppose you were in a group called "The Santa Claus Club" that kept the spirit of (secular) Christmas going all year round with trees, lights, elves, reindeer, Santa's Workshop, toys for kids, etc., etc. Your grandparents were in it, your parents, family, and you. You like being in the club so much you can't stop talking about it and you want everybody you meet to join too because it's fun having Christmas all of the time everyday of the year.

Then someone tells you that there is no Santa Claus and the whole lot's made up. Your first reaction is to re-assert your belief in Santa, feel smug and superior in you lifelong belief in Santa, and dismiss friends or others who no longer believe in Santa.

Get it? Got it. Good.

Merry Christmas :)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2016 12:56PM by anybody.

Thanks, Buddy.

I get so tired of self-righteous people praising "faith"!

Mark Twain nailed it: "Faith is believing things you know ain't so."

"Faith" is just a code word for "gullibility, being gullible."

Even the Bible suggests caution: "The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going... The simple inherit folly: but the prudent are crowned with knowledge." - Prov 14:15, 18

To those who are hesitant to be gullible, the religionists will quote their scriptures and their prophets, citing passages that imply that it is wrong to doubt, wrong to ask for proof, wrong not to simply believe without question. Those who ask for proof are labeled "stubborn," "proud," "worldly-wise." But if you study the intellectual history of our human race, the history of science, of philosophy, of religion, one fact becomes glaringly obvious: our intellectual heritage has been built by the doubters, the critics, the questioners, the rebels. No advancement in our long journey out of primitive darkness was ever made by someone who accepted without question the conventional wisdom of his time or the words of the prophets.

Without skeptics and doubters, without those who insist on "proof," there would be no science, because that is the essence of the scientific method. Even the Apostle Paul said: "Test everything!" (1 Thess 5:21, my translation). How can you test something without being skeptical?

See my article "What about faith?" at http://packham.n4m.org/faith.htm

See also the news report about the government's testing of faith: http://packham.n4m.org/news1.htm

Excellent points!

"To those who are hesitant to be gullible, the religionists will quote their scriptures and their prophets, citing passages that imply that it is wrong to doubt, wrong to ask for proof, wrong not to simply believe without question. Those who ask for proof are labeled "stubborn," "proud," "worldly-wise." But if you study the intellectual history of our human race, the history of science, of philosophy, of religion, one fact becomes glaringly obvious: our intellectual heritage has been built by the doubters, the critics, the questioners, the rebels. No advancement in our long journey out of primitive darkness was ever made by someone who accepted without question the conventional wisdom of his time or the words of the prophets."

My new favorite quote!

"let me be clear: there is nothing noble or impressive about having faith. Being faithful is easy - anyone can do it. It is reason that requires moral strength, dedication, and courage. Those who hold fast to reason are far more impressive than those who give in to faith when mysterious questions or concerns arise."

"Skepticism is easy - anyone can do it"

No they can't. It requires constant work, and faith is lazier and easier.