So, I'm having a real hard time here. I obviously don't accept everything in the church, but I'm trying to reconcile everything that I'm in conflict with with a new outlook on things so that I can move on in life with some kind of purpose and structure. I like certain things about the church. I also HATE a lot of things. But, like you all, I'm trying to find a middle ground, if possible. I was thinking about the main obstacles that I have with the Mormon church. If I was to become involved again, I would have to overcome my main obstacles of wearing garments 24/7 and paying tithing. Every time I contemplate such things, I always come back to the conclusion that those are my main obstacles. In order to solve this dilemma, I came up with some solutions. Tell me what you think...
RULE NUMBER 1
Only wear garments outside the home and to church. After all, what is the real purpose of garments? The church says that it's to prevent us from immoral behavior, mainly, but also to remind us of covenants. I think that wearing them to avoid immorality is a good way to not be immoral, in the same sense that wearing any type of ugly underwear would probably accomplish the same goal, hopefully. Even if I were to only wear them to church, it would still provide me with an opportunity to recommit myself to a good, wholesome life, which would fulfill the other purpose for wearing them.
RULE NUMBER 2
Only paying tithing on a surplus. If I were to ever get asked in an interview if I pay an honest tithe, I would be answering truthfully, knowing what is said in D&C about paying on a surplus. I simply could just pay all the absolutely necessary bills and with whatever is left over, I could deduct 10% off that. If I had a further remorse of conscience, then I could just pay what I consider to be a fair contribution, taking into consideration what I take from the church.
Any objections? Would anyone else consider this a fair way to be involved in the church? Now, finding a spouse who would go along with this is a huge challenge, but at least I don't have to deal with shunning and I get to benefit from the other good things about the church.
Suggestions?

I just feel sorry for you. You mentioned nothing about the false doctrine, JS translating with his head in a hat, the exclusion of nonmormons from Temple weddings, the arrogant attitude of Mormons when nonmormons move in the neighborhood and get ignored, the plagurized parts of the BofM, the secret Bishop interviews with young people, the forced two yrs. of mission service for males, the constant busy work they make their members do away from home to keep them in line, now I hear they must clean the ward houses, etc. etc. etc. You talk only of garments and tithing.

I guess you are still a Mormon through and through.

Dont be ridiculous. I would leave the church instantly if it werent for family pressures. I have spent the past year reading everything about the church from a to z. I would be able to fake it just enough to get by if i didnt have to literally believe in the bom or do the other things mentioned. Yes i hate the church for the most part, but how do you get rid of it without having your whole life crumble to pieces? Also, is there any virtue in having a hope of things like eternal marriage To get you through life with a positive outlook? What about, boardin general, having a good outlook on things? I feel like i'm about to self destruct right now from all the pressure i have to solve my dilemma and i cant take it anymore. I'm angry all the time and depressed and i have no idea what to do with myself. I mostly am sick of my anger. And i'm sick of having no one to talk to about this. I don't even trust anyone anymore. Everyone i see is automatically either a mormon who only cares about the church or someone who doesnt understand what i have to go through. My reality is very fragile right now. I cant even make plans for the future because i feel like everything is so pointless. Sorry its just so hard sometimes to process things. I think i just need some time away from the church to get rid of my anger. Maybe thats what i need to tell my parents. Problem solved. I just wanted to know what you all thought. I guess that was a post better suited for the new order mormon board but i think i've processed things enough through writing this. This is why we call it recovery i guess. I will return and report

You do that by trusting it won't happen. Your life won't crumble to pieces because you are in control of it. Now, if you can't control yourself in life, that is another issue, but leaving the church will in no way "cause" your life to crumble to pieces....only you can cause it to do that.

I don't think you are doing yourself any favors by living that sort of a double-life. Especially if you know where tithing goes and you know all the real church history. I just don't think it is healthy, but I understand where you are coming from. Are you extremely worried by how your family and friends most likely will react if you decide to leave?

In the end, you are an adult and if you think you can handle hiding your true self that is your decision. I wish you luck in figuring things out.

Woops. My message was late. I am on my iPod and the forum thought I was spam for a few minutes. lol

I understand the family thing. I came out at the end of May, regarding leaving, and it has been very rocky since then. At least I do feel free, though, but things will never be the same. I am the same person, but they see me differently. That is their problem. As I told my husband, "I can't do this after knowing everything." (((hugs)))

(((hugs))) I understand. My brother who knows the truth is doing just that, but it is killing him.

I can't, because if I stayed any longer I think I would become even more of a basket case than I already am, and that would be a problem. It is a personal decision. Like I said, good luck. :)

Ask yourself, why did Joseph Smith take plural wives as young as 14 years old? Really, why did he do that? Why did he take plural wives behind Emma's back for as long as possible? Why did he destroy a printing press that was about to expose his polygamy?

If you think that he did all of the above for spiritual reasons then I suppose that the Mormon church is the right place for you. But if not, then you need to consider that this was the person who promised you eternal marriage. Was he in any position to make such a promise?

I think some time away from the church would be a good thing for you. You could resign your callings and tell your bishop and family that you're taking a break. It would give you time to rest, think, and test the waters regarding being inactive.

I think that everyone needs to find his or her own way in spiritual life, just like in other aspects of life. If what you have come up with makes your life better, then go with it.

But please don't assume that everyone on this board is "trying to find a middle ground, if possible." Lots of people are trying to free themselves from what they have found to be very negative set of programmed mental habits.

It's a matter of integrity. Nothing good comes from staying in when you see the full picture. The Morg is a despicable organization.

Family members will adjust. Things may never be the same again.

That's the price for integrity.

If you have children, you'll become their hero forever.

That's the benefit of integrity.

Set a realistic time-line for disengaging. Stick to it, and get out.

Do you enjoy it? (You'd be within a small margin of people if you did.) Even if you resolve the tithing and underwear obstacles, would you enjoy attending? Most people think Mormon meetings are mind-numbing and stultifying. If you were to go to virtually any other Christian church, you'd find that people enjoy church, even sometimes revel in it. The fact that the Mormons stiffen in protest when they see people enjoying and rejoicing in some other Christian meeting speaks volumes to me. Mormons insist on the one hand that other patterns of belief cannot possibly make you happy, yet insist that church meetings are not there to entertain you or to make you want to stay. You attend out of duty!, they always like to say. Do you want that?

It's a silly church. Stupid, too.

"Well, it's either true or false. If it's false, we're engaged in a great fraud. If it's true, it's the most important thing in the world. Now, that's the whole picture. It is either right or wrong, true or false, fraudulent or true. And that's exactly where we stand, with a conviction in our hearts that it is true: that Joseph went into the [Sacred] Grove; that he saw the Father and the Son; that he talked with them; that Moroni came; that the Book of Mormon was translated from the plates; that the priesthood was restored by those who held it anciently. That's our claim. That's where we stand, and that's where we fall, if we fall. But we don't. We just stand secure in that faith." GBH - Jan 2007

Why would you want anything to do with any organization you don't believe? I don't know how old you are or what family pressures you may be under, but the sooner you get out and away from the destructive messages, the better you will be later in life. No matter when you leave, things will NOT be easy for you because the other people will never change.

It is very tough going against family and friends, but if you have to do that for awhile then so be it.

I lived a double life for far too long and all I can tell you is that I feel so much better now that I'm open about my disbelief. I don't feel guilty, and I feel only pity for my family that can't see things from my point of view. Basically, you need to make yourself happy first. You can't control how other people will feel and as long as you try you will fail and be miserable.

Here's a tip for you though. You don't want to give your money to the church because you know it's not being used for good. Give your surplus money to another legitimate charity. If your bishop is cool with that, then maybe things might work for you, if they're not cool with that...do you really want to be part of thier group?

Dude! Sorry if this might upset you, but you need to man up and grow a pair.

Just sayin'...

Ron

Some harsh comments here that I don't think are that helpful. Are we into recovery or "tough love"? My impression is that "joe" is worried that without the church, he will have no incentive to live a virtuous life. I've had the same thoughts the last week or so. I don't know the answer, but maybe a NOM route is best for Joe.

It's called "being on the fence" which drives me up the wall. Both are uber-painful.....half out, half in. Kinda like sex at BYU, neither is fully satisfying.

I completely understand where you are at right now. It is extremely difficult to lose faith in something you have believed in and sacrificed for, and have invested in for so long. If you feel like you need to live a double life right now, New Order Mormon is a good online community board to be at. Lots of fence-sitters there, and you can get lots of support and ideas there. Once you are completely out, this is a good place to be.

If not you can get away with this (be sure you really want to!). It will be a little uncomfortable at times, but most TBM's are not wholly supportive of the program anyway. Send your tithing to Salt Lake City, serve in callings you truly support or volunteer on a community level, ask your doctor about the benefits of drinking coffee and/or tea and then take his advice. Answer temple recommend questions with your own interpretation. Be happy. But if you have children this will tear you apart. Resign and get them out.

There is no room for compromise in what is true vs. what is not true.

If something is true, it is true for *Every* single instance and perspective in which it exists. A single contradiction means the *Entire* thing is false.

One cannot reconcile truth with falsehood. This compromise you suggest supports and benefits the organization you claim to doubt.

this is a perfect recipe for cognitive dissonance, and self delusion.

I really appreciate all your comments. No, I don't believe in a damn thing about the church. What I am saying is that, theoretically, what if someone were married with the hope of eternity, but still thought that it was somewhat of a false hope? I mean, then you can still hope to be involved with someone in a way that kind of propentiates your feelings to a higher level. That's what I'm saying. I just want a hopeful marriage. And at a theoretical level, can we somehow live a good life and be reconciled in the end with our accomplishments without guilt? What would be a decent vehicle for that? I mean, the BoM isn't true, but the metaphorical aspect of reconciling yourself before death always rang true to me. One that propels the feeling of your soul, as you pass, into a state of hope and bliss. Maybe it's just a feeling that I get in general out of life and the things I go through, but I have a general desire to be reconciled to some kind of universal force at the very least before I die. I have a need for structure. I feel like it would be so easy to just reconcile myself with myself only, but I have a desperate need to feel connected by some kind of hope between those closest to me that is positive and I can't do that without the church, because my parents won't give it up. Do you understand the complexity of my feelings? I'm not trying to make you view me as a girl with issues, but I just feel really deep emotions that have no way to be healthily expressed. By the way, I haven't even hardly touched the BoM since coming home a year ago; I just wish that some kind of organization could exist that isn't a church that has these same kind of hopes, if for the sake of only hoping and nothing else, based on no other true logic whatsoever except for theoretical and philosophical rhetoric. Why can't some kind of BENIGN organization out there exist that has these kinds of forums that exist so people can come together and reason these things out? Am I supposed to make one? I certainly have the desire to make one suited to myself. I have felt the deepest anguish since coming to terms with my unbelief and I wouldn't have even considered it if it weren't for what I know my parents feel. Does that make sense? I mean, the church only exists today because of hopeful mothers and fathers that needed some kind of reassurance and were afraid of death, so we have them to blame for the Mormon church really. The church took hold of people's desires along the lines of what I discussed and exploited them into a super-cult nightmare that you see. Do you understand possibly why the church is so cultish? If we had a healthier way to express ourselves or at least a different but similar way of hoping for positive things, the Mormon church would be unneeded or at least it never would have gotten to the crazy state it's in.
So, if I sounded insane and impractical, mixed with a desire for anything Mormon whatsoever, you would be wrong. Sorry to mix that up. I just understood what I meant and didn't explain it better. Hope this clears it up. (This has also been shared in like content in a new thread. Feel free to comment there instead).