This was the message my TBM brother wrote at the end of his annual Christmas card.

He's 83, and his wife is 81. I visit them about every two months, since they are not well: he's had heart problems and she's had a stroke. I'm not sure how much longer they'll be around.

During the visits, we never talk about my "status" vis-a-vis the Mormon church. We talk about family, food and health, of course. And I'm openly gay with them, too. But never religion.

So.... I'd like to give my brother some sort of reply, but before I do, I thought I'd run it by you guys.

"Consider coming back to the faith."

How would you reply?

My advice: ignore it.

I'd act like I never read that.

Is this your brother I met a few years ago? If so, he knew remarkably little about the church. I would let it slide and not respond.

Eric, no, it's not the same brother. The one you met passed away unexpectedly a while ago, after a lifetime of belonging & believing in the church, but not living it. You're right - he didn't know much about the church, but still considered it the "true church" and that God would accept him on that basis.

It's my oldest brother who wrote the note.

How is your sweet SIL doing? Does she still live down here?

As for your 83-year-old brother, I'd just let it slide.

When we left the church in 1998, my then-82-year-old mother begged and pleaded with us to go back for a decade, until old age and dementia finally stopped her. At every family gathering, she'd start in about it without fail. We'd just politely cut her off and try to change the subject. Even some of my other TBM relatives began sympathizing with us, telling her "Mama, they ain't coming back, so just drop it."

If you want to respond to your brother, I'd just go with something like "We all have to live our own lives the best way we see fit" yada yada.

Don't do that, at this stage of his life. If he really is possibly near the end of his life, and has heart problems, the last thing you want to do is give him any kind of stress. You can still be honest with him, if you want to, but perhaps do it in a kinder or more compassionate way.

Or, especially if you really don't discuss religion much with this brother, just don't bring it up at all. I would personally prefer that approach if I were in your situation.

I agree that I'd just ignore it.

But if you really wanted to say something, you could say, "I might consider it if they considered accepting me just as I am."

Or you could smile and invite him to consider coming to the truth!

Ignore it unless he brings it up in conversation. Then as Cheryl said, laugh it off.

Ignore, ignore, ignore.

For me, that's a rough one. I think you're a professed believer - in something other than mormonism.

Your brother's older. Not in good health. It sounds like he does accept you in some important ways. I have the impression he hasn't been hounding you about religion for years on end.

I'd be inclined to not allow religion - his or yours - to get in the way of comforting someone and showing some love. I don't think you need to say "I'll consider it."

I think there are a lot of other answers like "I'm sure it's going to work out the right way for both of us and I appreciate you caring about me enough to share your thoughts."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2014 04:02PM by thingsithink.

To him: consider coming over to logic and reason.

Ignore it, but if he brings it up, laugh and tell him, "Sure, as soon as apostles fly."

"...in coach."

This is why humans need to come up with a scale by which to rank Impossibility. Both "apostles flying" and "apostles flying in coach" are impossible, but how can we rank which is more impossible?

Apostles flying in coach chance: 1 / ∞

Apostles flying (like pigs) chance: 1 / ∞²



There, how's that?

;)

Thanks to everyone for your replies. Ignoring it seems to be the consensus or close to it. I will not bring it up. My first meeting with them since the Christmas card could happen in the next three days.

If he says anything, I'll try & laugh it off. But knowing him, he'll likely want to pursue further.

I shall return and report.

PS, if I said "when apostles fly coach" I think he'd tell me that they do. LOL.

It seems to me that at his age and state of health your brother may feel he has to say something as he genuinely beleives tscc is true and he loves his brother, and must take some some stand before he passes. He may also feel that you have now 'worked through' you being gay (who knows how mos think on that stuff), and may be ready to repent and go back.

I agree to ignore it is best, you dont' want to upset him. But if he brings it up, just say you appreciate his concern, but are not ready to do so. That should keep things calm.

Hi PapaKen, I'm sorry to hear about their poor health. They sound like fine people who have loved you even though their beliefs would say to shun you.

I'd send them a card expressing your love for them and let them know how much their support for you means. Don't mention TSCC. Too much damage has been done in the name of religion. Best wishes, The Boner.

Sorry boner, but you got this one completely ass-backwards.

It is PapaKen who is the fine person who has loved his obnoxious older brother IN SPITE of the fact that even after 7 or 8 decades of being siblings, he still can't accept who PapaKen is.

The notion that gay people should be grateful and gracious to those straight people who "have loved us even though their beliefs would say to shun us", is about as insulting an idea as I can imagine.

I guess this is why gay people tend to make families of choice rather than settle for relationships with such small minded idiots who share DNA.

PapaKen, when you speak to your brother again, I would look him dead in the eye and say,
"I would kill any man who would try to foist that miserable life on me. The next time you suggest such an obnoxious thing will be the last time we communicate."

Thanks Sonoma, from the OP I had assumed his brother was supportive and loving and TCSS got in way. The fact that PK reached out to his jerky brother speaks volumes about PK's genuineness. With your insight, my post seems silly now.

I stick by what I said about loving family members who love others despite of a religious teaching. This is not a gay/straight or Mormon/exMormon issue. There are plenty of people hurt by hateful religious teachings because their families pay more attention to the faith. Boner.

I'm new here, but if you do still believe in God, or Christ, or something similar, you could tell you brother,

"I do have faith." or,

"I believe in God." or,

"I believe in Love." or,

"I believe in Family"

Whatever would be appropriate.

Then, move on. Never debate with Mormons. From your post, and your friends here on this board, I would guess that you probably believe in Love. BYUBoner's post was very moving. We do need to give credit to those Mormons who have loved us, when their beliefs would say to shun us. That is powerful.

I agree with the others. Ignore it or respond with a light-hearted humorous response.

I had a close friend at school who was a born-again evangelical Christian who was genuine in his belief -- unlike so many others. He felt a deep, personal need to tell me about Jesus, being saved, etc. I told him I knew all about it and didn't believe a world of it but would listen if it made him feel better.

When people are old and on their way out, they also begin to look for loopholes in the law and things. Like, will "Heavenly Father" like me more if I bring my gay brother back?" It could be just something like that. Whatever the case, it's something you should find easy enough to ignore. Steer him away from church talk.

I would tell him the same thing I have told my relatives, his age notwithstanding.

I am happy you believe in the church. I don't believe in it any more. Respect me as a human being and don't bring up the church again to me. Maybe I am lucky, but they have all respected that request.

Explain that to believe in Joseph Smith translated the BoM, would be like saying Roger Rabbit was real.

Many people, when they are in the sunset of their lives, feel a need to make some sort of lasting impression on those who will be here when they are gone.

Someday, if we are blessed to live a long life (or even a short life where you will find your days measured), we will be in the exact place that your brother is.

My nevermo grandpa, whom I was never particularly close to, made an amazing effort to reach out to me and impart nuggets of wisdom into my mind and heart.

There were some things he said that I had to brush off..things that were a result of his dementia, his rigid Catholicism, and his troubled relationship with his own past.

As troubled and temperamental of a young woman that I was at that time, I found it in myself to brush off his verbal diarrhea. I regret many of the things I said and did in my youth...but I don't regret a single word nor action toward my grandpa in that vulnerable moment of his life.

My reward for my patience? He actually said many things that stuck...words that haunt me 10 years later.

This brother of yours has invested (presumably) 83 years of his life into believing that the Mormon Church is true. At this point, knowing that he's dying, he isn't going to let go of his belief in the Mormon understanding of heaven. His thinking is that he is doing a great service to your immortal soul by persuading you to go back to the church.

He's not in a place in his life where he can handle the evidence that the church, and everything it stands for, is a lie. He doesn't have enough time left on earth to go through the long process of mourning the loss of his Mormon faith, and the healing that must be done after. And he probably doesn't have the energy for it, either.

The last thing a person at the end of their life needs, is somebody to imply that they lived their life in vain.

And the last thing you need, is to have what might be the last conversation you have with your brother, to end in a fight. You don't want to carry that sorrow and regret into the end of your own life.

Anything he might say, let it roll off peacefully. Let your focus be on your happy memories together, and your gratitude for the love he showed you.

He is your brother first, and a Mormon second.

In the way you respond to his behavior, you are carving out your own legacy. And when you are in his place, that is how you will be remembered.

PapaKen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Consider coming back to the faith."
>
> How would you reply?

I would reply that I'm sure when I am dead someone will baptize me back. That should make him feel better.

My elderly father does the same thing about Catholicism. "Love you, Dad, but that's not happening. How's the weather in Florida today?"