I have a hypothesis that the church probably looses a bunch of them, because they are away from their support networks, and have a chance to start thinking for themselves. Even if the window of time, between rebuilding their support structure is narrow, I am willing to bet it is noticeable. I am really just hoping, because one of my TBM sisters and her family are moving to a new state, Texas, where they don't know anyone. I suspect her husband has doubts, and I am hoping they find their way out.
You could always drop some hints to the BIL like "so, you're moving to Texas. Great to get a fresh start. I hear they brew some fine beers down there". You get the idea.
This same sister almost got out in the 90s. She was a teenage girl in the 90s, dating a nevermo marine, and probably doing what young girls do with marine boyfriends. Then he cheated on her, and she returned to the church, and never looked back. I think if she had found this page during her moral apostasy, she never would have ran back to the church, but as it were, the only criticisms she ever had came from her boyfriends Evangelical perspective. Problem is, Evangelicals attack other religions the way comic fan boys debate which super hero is tougher. At the end of the day, both sides base their argument on fantasy, and so are never moved by real hard evidence, and can simply dismiss the other side with another bit of fancy.
My BIL may not be as firm in the faith. While on the surface he seems TBM, he has done a lot of work with the church, and seems like he is critical with the corporate side.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2012 10:07AM by forbiddencokedrinker.
FBC, you may be saying enough about your BIL to out his identity. You might want to consider reducing the amount of information in this response (for his welfare.)
The church tries to prevent this. If the old bishop knows where they are going he will call ahead and tell the new bishop his perception of you before you ever get there. He will also send your records.
For that reason husband and I never told the old bish where we were going. We would just show up when we felt like it. If they know you are moving in, the bish and his counselors will come over right away, and give you a calling.
When we moved across the country we took two months off before we let the new bish in on who we were. In hind sight, thats when we should have left. We just didn't have enough info at the time.
It's so weird and off-putting that the LDS church operates this way. People get tired of church, move, and then discover, "Hey, we don't have to go! No one we know is going to hassle us or guilt us over not going."
Oh contraire! The very idea that the LDS church has a tidy method for hassling "stray sheep" is creepy.
Depending on your relatives, your records may be transferred in any case. All it takes is one call by a little old lady in the COB to a sympathetic relation who knows your location to rat you out.
This is exactly what I did except for the fact that I was above-board with it. But I resigned when I came here so that I would not really know anyone and make any friends. I did go to church for about 2 1/2 or 3 months semi-regularly before resigning.
I left about two years after moving to a new state.
In my large family, only two of us have left, and the other one also left after moving out of state. When I say moving out of state, I mean leaving Utah.
It probably would have been more difficult if I was still totally ensnared in my all Mormon network back home.
If it isn't outright enslavement and infringing on individuals' freedom of religion, what is it when grown men and women can't leave a freakin' church when they want to? They have to move out of state (or out of the stake) to feel like they can drift away quietly?
For most Americans, that is an alien concept, a strange way for a religion to relate to people.
I would hope that I would have left anyway, but all of us are not immune to social forces. When social forces are acting on you, and then the forces are for the most part removed, your mind goes places easier than it would have gone otherwise.
Anyone who has gone through a bad divorce probably knows what I mean. One month you would still have sex with the person, even if things were rocky. Then you go through a nasty divorce and you wouldn’t sleep with the person for thousands of dollars (some of you would still bang and ex, but there is no way that I would, yuck!). Once your mind is allowed to leave a situation, it all changes.
Would I have gone anyway? I hope so. Was it much easier to leave it all behind when none of my neighbors were Mormon, none of my friends were, and I didn’t have decades of history with anyone, yes.
Your point about the cult mind-set is well taken though.
Personally, I think my sister is now too TBM to leave the church. Again, I think her husband has doubts, but he loves his wife, and his kids, and he doesn't want to stir up the hornets nest by openly leaving the church.
Taking the opposite point of view, whenever I moved I had a ready made group of friends in the church. It's one thing I really liked about the church - that I was so welcome in the wards I attended and made friends easily. So even if your sister and her family move, if they are feeling lonely or not making friends easily, they might be lured/tempted toward Mormons where there would be a bit of a siege mentality. Everyone with a similar outlook, lifestyle, childishness that makes it easier to fit in. Also, in Texas, according to my SIL in Dallas, there aren't a lot of active Mormons so they tend to cling together. That would make a newcomer a valuable, loved commodity. My SIL moved from Salt Lake City, so her idea of "a lot of Mormons" is a bit skewed, granted.
...that even new member move-ins at times have trouble adapting/fitting in. I have plenty of experience with "unwelcomeness" of certain wards I have moved into - Granted not all of them, but there are plenty out there. Of course, if your family meets the Mormon "gold standard" you will likely have an easier transition. "Gold standard" defined as professional husband, stay at home wife, at least 3 kids, etc., you get the picture.
I agree but I never had a problem until I moved to Salt Lake - well, the west side of the valley, after I married. Even when we lived over on the East side when we were single and first married, we had plenty of friends. Maybe there is more of a siege mentality outside the Morridor - a place I stayed clear of as much as possible and will continue to do so. My experience is that outside of Utah, you are just in the club if you are Mormon.
Of course, I may just be clueless because I'll admit, I've always been the sort of person who just brazenly makes friends with whomever I want to without worrying about cliques or anything. And I steer clear of the snotty people just because I don't want to hang out with that sort. But I often do make friends with people who intimidate others. I've had countless people say "I don't know how you can be friends with _____________. She's so intimidated, stand-off-ish, rich, gorgeous, whatever..." But I've found the most accomplished people often need praise and acceptance the most because so many people try to take them down a peg so if you are genuinely friendly, they become friends with you. Or, again, maybe I'm just clueless in a very Pollyana sort of way. My husband has accused me of that too.
Once we figured out the church thing, we developed a plan to change our life, get out of Utah and go in a new direction. We kept going to church until we moved. It was a lot easier making the transition without the interaction with all of our old neighbors and friends.
If people have serious doubts and are ready to "move on", they often seem to hang on until they move to a new area for work or education and then suddenly go cold turkey. On the other hand, if people are TBM and they move to a place where they don't know anybody, TSCC may be a good way for them to make friends.
It also depends on whether the place they move to (and the one they come from) is heavily mormon or not. And of course, people who move from Utah to Manhattan may be not so TBM, while TBM Manhattanites way want to live in Zion.
Closer to home I noticed that people who left Madrid (millions of people, thousands of members) for a little village in the middle of nowhere were usually ready to leave the church behind, whereas those who chose the village of Azuqueca de Henares (with 200 active members) where Ubermormons. Likewise, mormons from small places would move to Madrid to be closer to the temple. They even wanted a house along the subway line to the temple rather than on the subway line to, say, the very gay district of Chueca.
Before I knew TSCC was BS, I went "inactive" twice, both times following moving to a new area. I don't know how much of it was to do with it being an area where I didn't have immediate fellowshipping, or whether it was more to do with it not being my home ward with my parents. It was probably a bit of both.
I do know many believing Mormons who went inactive when moving to a new area, so it is certainly not directly related to belief (though many TBMs will claim that they can't have had strong enough testimonys...)
As a mormon who has moved often all over the U.S., I haven't observed many previously observant mormons suddenly leave the church. I've been a mormon for 73 years and have bounced around the country for about 45 of them. I've seen some mormons cease church attendance and other practices after moving into the same places I was in. Those with whom I talked said that they intended to step away from the church before they moved. Most of the non-observant mormons who moved into our wards and branches were non-observant before they got there. I also have seen just as many mormons immediately jump into their new congregations with great vigor. Those who joined the same congregation I attended said they found a source of immediate emotional, social and physical support. I always found the church members in the many states where I have moved were always a good source of assistance in moving in and moving out. I have observed that people find what they're looking for no matter what.
It SEEMS (I have no data) as though people of almost any religious denomination drift away from churches after moving. With non-LDS and non-Catholic (probably non -JW and non- Seventh-Day Adventist as well) churches, There's often a situation where it's tough to duplicate the church you left even if you find the same denomination. The LDS church and a few others have a great deal of similarity no matter where the church is. Individual wards have personalities, of course, but there's also much sameness.
Then there's the whole social issue of it being easier to drift away when you don't know the people and don't have to hear "where hve you been?" every time you're seen in public if you leave before you're known in a new area.
I used to eat lunch at this one fast food place every day, and I'd go through the drive-thru window. This one woman was working the window almost every time I'd go through, and after a while, she started anticipating what I was going to order, or if I ordered something different, she'd comment on that. I'm sure she was just trying to connect and be friendly, but I found it , I don't know, intrusive. Like I didn't really want her to take notice of everything I ate.
A church can be like that. They can just take too much notice of too much in your life until you feel like they are intruding. So you move to a new area, have a fresh start, a clean slate, and gee, who wants to muck that up by seeking out a new church group to intrude on every detail of your life?
P.S. - I have totally reformed my eating, and never eat fast food these days. I bet that lady missed me . . .