So I'm 18, recently left the church. I tried alcohol today for my first time, a couple swigs of gin. Almost immediately I felt like crap, got the worst stomach pains I've had in years. I'm wondering if since no one in my extended Mormon ancestry (literally all of my grandparents, great, great-great, etc back for like 150 years were lds) partook of booze, if that would effect my ability to consume it? i know this isn't a medical board but I'm just putting it out there. Thanks!

I don't know the answer to your question because it is backwards from my situation, but I do know that there is/can be an inherited tendency towards alcoholism if your blood relatives were/are alcoholics.

It wouldn't be all that surprising if the reverse were also true.

Tevai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know the answer to your question because
> it is backwards from my situation, but I do know
> that there is/can be an inherited tendency towards
> alcoholism if your blood relatives were/are
> alcoholics.
>
> It wouldn't be all that surprising if the reverse
> were also true.


I don't think so because look what happened to the Native
Americans, they had never had alcohol and became addicted right away, which the Whites took complete advantage of . I am
genetically predisposed to alcoholism and I wonder if it could
be because some of my ancestors are Indigenous.
Either way it's an interesting question.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2016 09:49PM by saucie.

Natives don't become alcoholics like European ancestral people do. They, like their Asians ancestors often lack the natural enzymes to process alcohol. So it makes them really drunk, really fast.

"In fact, there’s no evidence that Native Americans are more biologically susceptible to substance use disorders than any other group, says Joseph Gone, associate professor of psychology at the University of Michigan. American Indians don’t metabolize or react to alcohol differently than whites do, and they don’t have higher prevalence of any known risk genes."
http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/2/9428659/firewater-racist-myth-alcoholism-native-americans

That's what I was trying to say. They don't become alcoholics. Although this study does say they don't process alcohol any differently than other groups. I'll have to do some more research on that. Anecdotally, I've known many who can't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2016 09:52PM by Devoted Exmo.

EviNative Americans and Alaskan Natives are five times more likely than other ethnicities in the United States to die of alcohol-related causes. Native Americans are predisposed to alcoholism because of differences in the way they metabolize alcohol.
In This Issue - NIAAA Publications - National Institutes of Health
pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/.../3-4.htmNational Institute on Alcohol Abuse a

Evidently there are varying opinions on this:


And this...

Alcohol and Native Americans
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Native Americans in the United States have historically had extreme difficulty with the use of alcohol.[1] Problems continue among contemporary Native Americans; 12% of the deaths among Native Americans and Alaska Natives are alcohol-related. Use of alcohol varies by age, gender and tribe with women, and older women in particular, being least likely to be regular drinkers. Native Americans, particularly women, are more likely to abstain entirely from alcohol than the general US population. Frequency of use among Native Americans is generally less than the general population, but the quantity consumed when it is consumed is generally greater.[2]

Fur traders doing business with Native Americans in 1777, with a barrel of rum to the left.
A survey of death certificates over a four-year period showed that deaths among Native Americans due to alcohol are about four times as common as in the general US population and are often due to traffic collisions and liver disease with homicide, suicide, and falls also contributing. Deaths due to alcohol among Native Americans are more common in men and among Northern Plains Indians. Alaska Natives showed the least incidence of death.[3] Alcohol abuse by Native Americans has been shown to be associated with development of disease, including sprains and muscle strains, hearing and vision problems, kidney and bladder problems, head injuries, pneumonia, tuberculosis, dental problems, liver problems, and pancreatitis.[4] In some tribes, the rate of fetal alcohol spectrum disorder is as high as 1.5 to 2.5 per 1000 live births, more than seven times the national average,[5] while among Alaska natives, the rate of fetal alcohol spectrum disorder is 5.6 per 1000 live births.[6]
Native American youth are far more likely to experiment with alcohol than other youth with 80% alcohol use reported. Low self-esteem is thought to be one cause. Active efforts are underway to build self-esteem among youth and to combat alcoholism among Native Americans.[7]

"Native Americans are predisposed to alcoholism because of differences in the way they metabolize alcohol."

I thought that too for the longest time, but actual evidence doesn't seem to back it up. I'm changing my mind about it now.


"One of the most common stereotypes about Indians is that of the drunken Indian, a reflection of a higher rate of alcoholism among Indians. While there are many who feel that Indians are biologically or genetically incapable of consuming alcohol in a “normal” fashion, research on alcoholism generally does not bear this out. The persistence of the idea that Indians metabolize alcohol differently and therefore get drunk on less alcohol and are therefore more likely to become alcoholic is based on the drunken Indian stereotype rather than on any scientific research on the etiology of alcoholism."
http://nativeamericannetroots.net/diary/327

Study Says the ‘Drunken Indian’ Is A Myth
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2016/02/24/study-says-drunken-indian-myth-163446
"This study, in conjunction with a dearth of positive evidence for a genetic vulnerability to alcoholism among American Indians, could revolutionize both popular and medical thinking about drinking in Native American communities."

"Based on a false negative stereotype, some health care providers may inaccurately attribute a presenting health problem to alcohol use and fail to appropriately diagnose and treat the problem.”

“The problem with stereotypes,” says Solomon, “is that they can get in the way of finding the real causes of problems.”

I think Native American alcohol problems are more a result of poverty and loss of culture, rather than an actual physical difference.

Actually, many tribes made and used alcohol in pre-columbian times.

http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/PublicHealth/research/centers/CAIANH/journal/Documents/Volume%207/7(2)_Abbott_Use_of_Alcohol_1-13.pdf

Well, if I'd never had alcohol before, swigging straight gin would be on the bottom of my recommendations in getting started. I'll bet no one in your mormon family drinks gasoline either. Mix Gin with tonic & a lime 1 part gin-3 parts tonic. Better yet, start with vodka & fruit juice, or tonic. Bitching about having an adverse effect of straight Gin is like complaining that the first time you learned to jump was off your 2nd story roof. Google is your friend.

Fair enough.
It couldn't have been more than 1/4 cup, if that makes a difference, and I did make sure to eat and drank a whole bottle of water after.

A 1/4 cup of gin is a lot to drink all at once. It may not seem like much, but that's about 3 mixed drinks' worth.

I love gin but it does tend to make my stomach hurt a little.

I second this.

Mix that juniper infused spirit with some tonic water and half a lime, and your brain (and your stomach) will thank you.

IsaacJacobs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm wondering if since no one in my extended Mormon
> ancestry (literally all of my grandparents, great, great-great, etc back for like 150 years were lds) partook of booze, if that would effect my ability to consume it?

No, it doesn't work that way.

I would not recommend a few swigs of hard liquor for anyone trying alcohol for the first time. Instead, a beginner should try beer, wine, or a mixed drink made either by a professional bartender or someone who knows what they are doing.

Let me guess. You did it on an empty stomach.

Drinking without food is kind of missing the point. At least get a good buzz going before you eat. It makes the food taste better.

First you are 18 and are not very educated in drinking. As you know it is illegal so I would say there are good reason to wait until 21 to drink especially hard alcohol your brain is still developing. So I would hold off for a few more years get a little more maturity and start slow. If it turns out you can't handle it fine. There are a lot of people who don't drink for a lot of reasons. You have a long life so enjoy it you don't need top be in trouble with the law especially in Utah. I started out at 43 drinking quite fast at 43. Turns out I don't drink much beer or hard spirits but settled on wine.

It's *possible* (but unlikely) that you could be "allergic" to alcohol. As this article explains, actual alcohol allergies are very rare, and it's more likely something IN a particular kind of alcohol...

http://mcwell.nd.edu/your-well-being/physical-well-being/alcohol/alcohol-allergies-do-they-exist/

But as others have said, starting with gin is a bad idea, and it may not be an "allergy" at all.

Take it slow, try some lighter stuff first (like beer or wine), start off with small quantities, and if you do experience some nasty symptoms, keep track of which drinks caused it, and avoid them.

As to your question, No, whether or not your ancestors consumed alcohol, would have no bearing on your ability or inability to consume it.

As others have said, trying straight gin is the problem. Yes, if you are inclined to try it out, beer would be a better choice or StillAnon''s recipe for a gin and tonic :) Further, if you drank your "couple of swigs of straight gin" on an empty stomach, it's not surprising that you experienced stomach pain. While some hard liquor can be enjoyed straight, gin is not usually one of them.

Your ancestors never ate a "Big Mac", either, but that doesn't have any effect on whether or notyou like them! Good luck to you :)

Okay, you left the church. That is not a licence to break the law or harm yourself.

Measuring alcohol by the "gulp" or cup- OOPS. A "serving" is often called a "shot," or 1.5 OUNCES. Experienced drinkers sometimes "down" a (ONE) shot, then either make a scrinchy face, say, "ahhhhhh....." or sometimes both. The single shot is sometimes followed with a "chaser," a beverage to help any burning stop, and dilute the alcolhol in the stomach for the same reason.

Then some time passes, and maybe they have another shot and chaser.

Many consider it easier and tastier to make a "cocktail," or alcohol mixed with non-alcoholic beverages, flavors, syrups and/or seasonings. These are also called "mixed drinks." It also helps pace consumption, because the serving of alcohol is diluted, and it takes longer to drink than downing a shot.

Young, inexperienced drinkers can poison themselves (to death) because they drink too much too quickly. They don't wait for the "buzz" to start before having a second helping, then more, and they can end up unable to seek help. Or, their friends don't realize they are in medical trouble.

How much you ingest is about alcohol content (proof) and body metabolism..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_equivalence

http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/answered-questions/how-much-alcohol-day

http://www.1001cocktails.com/recipes/most-popular-mixed-drinks.html

Exmos are exmos because they're SMART and independent. Don't forget the smart. There is no reason to gulp alcohol straight from the bottle. Others may disagree, but it's a good way to hurt yourself (like you did).

And if you want to try something else that's risky, come here first and ask how it's done.

First, if your ancestors are Mormon, they were probably drinking like everyone else until the 1920s. It was only with prohibition that the church started enforcing the WoW. Several of the prophets before then were famously fond of drink.

Your reaction to alcohol is genetically based. It is extremely unlikely that there has been a random mutation since the 1920s that made you uniquely vulnerable to alcohol. (Assuming you are not Asian or Native American, peoples with genetics that make alcohol consumption more problematic.) So you probably just had too much, too fast.

Remember that the church's being purely stupid does not necessarily mean that all of its teachings are pure stupidity. Be careful with alcohol. It's easy to drink too much; and not liking it is entirely reasonable.

I got totally sick the first couple times I drank but, with patience, practice, and hard work, I developed into a first-rate drunk. (Seemed like a good idea at the time.)

Straight booze is a no-no, at least until you live on the bad side of town and sell your own plasma for a living. Also, drinking on an empty stomach as others have noted is a harsh way to break into the big leagues.

I second the suggestions for vodka and OJ (order a "screwdriver"), vodka/grapefruit juice ("greyhound" or "vodka grape"), or vodka/cranberry.

I also invented a drink, vodka and Minute Maid orange soda, which I christened a "Vomit." After a few, when friends would show up I'd answer the door and ask cheerfully, "Vomit?" The look on their faces revealed some confusion.

Rum, coke, and a little lime juice ("Cuba libre") is also good, IMO. Or if you're into sweet things, try a "Black Russian" (vodka + Kaulua) or follow the Dude ("The Big Lebowsky") and go for a "White Russian" (vodka, Kaulua, + cream).

A shot of Jack (Daniels) and a beer back (on the side) is also a good combo, IMO. Sip the Jack and chase it with a generous gulp of beer until you get the hang of it.

Start with the light stuff: Wine Coolers. Bartles & Jaymes, Seagrams, Bacardi, etc. And I hope you live in a state where 18 is the legal drinking age, otherwise it's best to wait till you're 21.

I come from a long line of alcoholics, and I watched my mother gradually pickle her brain with the stuff after my father died. It was horrible. She wasn't a very pleasant person when sober, but when she was drunk, she became an abusive monster. I couldn't get into an out-of-town university fast enough.

Fortunately, I didn't inherit the tendency to drink too much. I can have a Margarita with supper when we dine out and that's it. Maybe once or twice a month, and never more than one. I was grateful to learn that one was enough, and I didn't crave more.

A fourth of a cup of gin is a lot of booze, honest. I used to like gin and tonics as a summer drink (and StillAnon has the amount right, and don't have more than two, or one "strong one." That's about 1 1/4 of an ounce per drink).

As far as the genetics go, there's definitely "at least a predisposition." Most of the research is "financially driven," and thus there's not a lot of it other than studies showing "it runs in families." I'm as well schooled in alcoholism as any here (I have a grad credential in substance abuse counseling), and right now I'm looking at "trauma" as a factor as well. Christopher Kennedy Lawford is publicizing the research on that subject, and it's illuminating.

Per Dr. Drew Pinsky: if you don't have "the alcoholism gene," you don't become an alcoholic. That doesn't mean you can't drink a lot and do damage, of course. One element of alcoholism is the "tolerance factor." If I told you I was drinking a fifth daily at the end of my drinking, you'd probably think I was lying, but I know of individuals who were drinking even more than that.

In terms of your forebearers not drinking, that will have no effect on the genetic component. That simple principle is illustrated by experiments showing "acquired characteristics" are not inherited. Take two mice and cut off their tails and breed them and their offspring will have tails. You could do that for 20 generations and still not have tail-less mice...

BTW, it's likely alcoholism was a factor in Joseph Smith's family. Joseph Smith, Sr. was probably an alcoholic, and I know of one branch of the JS family tree that has been horribly devastated by the disease.

Go slow, and if you're out and get a little tipsy, call a taxi (rather than get ripped off by the amateurs offering on-line "ride sharing).

That same thing happened to me too when I tried gin. I was only about 15 years old then. My body hurt too because my Dad found out that I had taken his gin and he kicked the shit out of me.

You are not of legal age to drink yet. Leave it alone until you are.

skyy vodka OPie ~


(srs) ~



skyy vodka ~

Why do you feel pressure to drink? Is that required to be a good exmo?

Why did alcohol make you feel bad? Because it is a poison.

Fascinating that people want to tell you the proper way to handle drinking a toxin. Usually you are supposed to avoid them. Hopefully your liver can keep up with the onslaught.

Maybe if alcohol doesn't work out, you can try turpentine or something. Look in your dad's garage for all manner of chemicals you can ingest.

That's a "very Mormon thing," I hope you realize...

Free Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why did alcohol make you feel bad? Because it
> is a poison.

Comfortable myths die hard...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/addiction-in-society/201011/science-is-what-society-says-it-is-alcohols-poison

You really should wait until you're 21 to drink any more alcohol as then, you'll be old enough to legally buy or consume it. Until then, you can try tea or coffee, which are things Mormons aren't allowed to have, but have no age limit.

Gin is one drink that isn't good straight at all, and really needs a lot of tonic water and lime to make it tolerable. Even then, you shouldn't drink that much of it, and never on an empty stomach.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2016 03:26AM by adoylelb.

gin was not called 'mother's ruin' for nothing.

when offering to get you a drink, people do not ask 'what's your poison' for no reason.

Alcohol is not called 'the demon drink' for no reason.

Alcohol is a psycho-active substance far more harmful than some illegal and controlled drugs. It is not illegal because it brings in much revenue from taxation.

Anytime you are experimenting with something for the first time, ensure you have an experienced (responsible) friend with you for reference and assistance and, if required, reassurance.

Be smart, be safe and minimise any potential harm. Living fast and dying young is not very glamorous, nor does it provide much opportunity for fun long-term.

Above all, you get what you pay for - cheap booze is full of pollutants that premium booze is not.

You should never SWIG alcohol. SIP it, fer crying out loud - well chilled and with a mixer. Be civilized, be moderate.

Agreed...I learned the hard way. I tried a couple shots of Jim Bean right out of the morg, and it upset my stomach. If you don't SIP it - you'll end up w/ upset stomach and vomiting.

Alcoholism runs in my Mormon bloodline. And like you, I used to get very sick from just a single drink or two.

It depends on how it's mixed, or drunk. Maybe have a gin w/tonic on the rocks in the future. Don't drink it straight up from the bottle, that's too little preparation gone into it.

You probably just drank too much all at once. If it makes you feel that ill, you may not be a good candidate for alcohol, period.

But as for the alcholism connection with your sober TBM ancestors, I doubt it. Many of mine were alcoholics, and drinking for the first time affected me very much like it affected you. And subsequent times after that. Feeling lousy is little reward for drinking a gin. Learn from experience and avoid it.

Even if your ancestors were with the church from the times of JS and BY, WofW adherence was not considered a temple recommend issue until after 1900, and even then to be interpreted with caution particularly in the cases of older men.

Were all of your descendants teetotalers, even that shouldn't make you react so violently, Evolution doesn't do its work that fast.


You took in far more than a neophyte should consume as an introduction to the stuff.

Drink or don't, but if you want to derive any pleasure from it, you'll need to drink a bit smarter. But don't beat yourself up over it, because you're only eighteen. Many of us have done dumber things, both with and without regard to drinking, at your age and even older.

Have a long and happy life!

Actually, very few French children drink at mealtimes or indeed at other times. After 18, it's different, but I've seen more children drinking alcohol in England where I come from (at weddings, etc.) than in France where I live.

Tom in Paris