In a early post I recount how I rejected the idea of the golden plates at the age of twelve. I was nominally active from 12 through 19 years of age, but I never believed, paid tithing, or took any Mormon hagiography seriously.

However, there was William James The Varieties of Religious
Experience that I read as a precocious teenager that reinforced my belief that the church was a fraud.

William James talks about the universality of religious experiences, using historical examples such as St John of the Cross, Meister Ekhart, and some of the early Gnostic anchorites.
The burning of the bosum, which the Mormon church propounds as proof of its teachings are universal and experienced by many individuals in and out of organized religion.

Even moments of profundity from listening to music qualify as feelings of transcendence. Listening to Bach, Rachmaninoff, and Chopin are the closest I have ever come to a religious experience.

The Varieties of Religious Experience is slightly dated in writing style, but still profound as an exegesis of the religious impulse.

Has anyone read William James and was it a paradigm shift for you.

Comments?

"The Changing World of Mormonism" got me out.

"Mormon Enigma" confirmed that my decision was right.

The last time I read the Book of Mormon, I was pretty convinced the church was a scam, but I wanted to give it one last try. However, I decided not to read the BoM as scripture and focus on spiritual teachings, rather I would read it as a possible creation of Joseph Smith and try to see how his timeframe and culture were weaved in. I didn't have to read long or hard to realize the BoM was a product of 19th Century American revivalist movements and culture.

Doctrine and Covenants chapter 32. When God told JS that polygamy was good and that Emma would be killed if she didn't agree.

For me, the D&C generally. Plus the Bible, BoM and PoGP.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2017 03:07PM by Stray Mutt.

I always thought that there were three ways to justify a religion/religious community. They were truth, superior leadership, or the quality of the local believers.

The truth foundations crumbled for me over a long time. All the books we have discussed in the various threads were part of that, plus science. But I stitched those ideas and traditions into an over-arching religiosity that, in retrospect, was not really Mormon at all. If I had to choose one "book," it would be the standard works of the church because they do not describe a God that deserves to be worshiped.

The second pillar is superior leadership. That might have kept me in the church if there were prophets who prophesied or who espoused moral values I thought correct and that were subsequently vindicated by social evolution. Obviously the church has never met that criterion.

The third is the quality of the local congregations. I know many think Mormons are unusually good or sincere people, but I don't. I have seen them ostracize so many, reverse their personal ethics at the instruction of the priesthood, suck resources from the broader secular community without contributing in turn, and do things to outsiders that are simply unforgivable. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say that on average Mormons are somewhat worse citizens and neighbors than most. Going further, I think the herd mentality and abdication of individual moral responsibility makes Mormons unusually capable of following leaders into truly evil endeavors.

Over the years the edifice of my faith took serious blows to all three pillars but I managed to use duct tape and baling wire to hold them together. I guess I finally gave up when in the space of about two years I decided JS was a complete fraud (not even partially redeemable), observed some unspeakable actions by local leaders and then saw the Q15 refuse to intervene to protect the members harmed by those leaders. The human cost was immense and predictable, and the decision not to mitigate the damage was intentional. It was, in short, sin that would entail eternal consequences for anyone who had not received the Second Anointing. . . The Second Anointing, the ritual that frees the recipient to commit virtually any crime. . .

So in answer to your questions, Brian, I have read Varieties and found it profound. I did not see a contradiction between religious experiences generated by religion per se and by art or music--Bach, for me too, and Handel, in particular--or nature. What changed for me was the ability of the church to provide equal experiences given my increasing understanding of its moral corruption. In that sense, I lost my faith due to the book of personal experience.

For me, it was a book that didn't even mention Mormonism. It was "Jesus Interrupted" by Bart D. Ehrman.

As I have mentioned a few times before here, I didn't abandon Christianity because I left Mormonism, I left Mormonism because I gave up on Christianity. For years, I struggled with the concept of God found in all Abrahamic religions, and the notion of eternal judgment, and I finally admitted to myself that I found it to be profoundly wrong.

I'm certain I would have ended up a "born again agnostic" even without "Jesus Interrupted," but that book helped me on my path.

"Desert Solitaire," by Edward Abbey.

I walk alone in the desert. The paucity of Mormonism, in contrast, is evident. Meanwhile the thoughts arise in my own head; they bubble up. All thoughts are mine, arising internally. I control them; they do not control me. As if on cue, Toto pulls down the curtain that once hid Mormonism's lie in my mind.

"What we think," said Buddha, "we become."

"By His Own Hand upon Papyrus" by Larsen

When I finished that book, I thought, "If Joseph Smith made that up, he made it ALL up"

I believe Larsen was at the first exmo conference I went to down in Las Vegas. I know that's where I met Eric K. and Richard Packham and others who were pioneers in the exmo movement. I knew I was in good company of thinkers. I was out.

For me it was my own first book. An account of my life as a LDS soldier my time working for British Military Intelligence and journey through Mormonism. The reflection and introspection of the state of my spirituality through my life's events was my realization of the fraud. It was not intended to be so but it became my doorway out.

The Book of Mormon.

You seem to be the only one to have been impacted by William James. Haven't read that one.

For me--No Man Knows My History. I didn't have to pray about it either to see that it was true. It had footnotes, court records,letters,journal entries, and all kinds of actual physical evidence. And Fawn Brodie was given access to the vaults by Uncle David O.

For any Mormon lurkers, you can read NMKMH and know it is true because the Mormon church has finally admitted in their essays to all the facts that Fawn Brodie was excommunicated for highlighting in the biography.

Moroni's challenge not necessary this time. Your brain will be enough if you let it.

The Book of Abraham

I've reach such books as "Journal of Discourses" and "Mormon Doctrine (the first edition, not the whitewashed third edition) which brought me to the truth about the church's history, which they try so hard to hide.

The final straw was a study of the Book of Mormon at a Single Adult FHE. My former Home Teacher (who was the Single Adult Representative at the time), had another lesson planned, but instantly changed his mind and decided to study 1 Nephi Chapter 13, one of the sections of the Book of Mormon that I have had issues with for quite some time, but ignored.

The lesson disturbed me, and I found it crazy to believe that (the Mormon) God showed Nephi that Columbus "discovered" America, and that the "Gentiles" were painted up as God's only chosen (is favorite a better word?) people during (or around) America's colonial times, and willing to help the "Gentiles" destroy anyone that gets in their way.

And then there was this line:
"And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain."

It just confirmed to me how racist the Book of Mormon really was, which was another thing that I tried to overlook. I tried to justify the "pure and delightsome" and the "curse of dark skin and skin turning back to "pure" but that line opened my eyes to what I tried to avoid.

After that, I decided that I should just leave the church. Even though I tried to stay with TSCC, because I still felt that they were good in a way, I couldn't pretend that it was true, or pretend that I don't have issues with the Book of Mormon, especially when once a month everyone "testifies" of how true they both are.

The Necronomican (Simon) I first heard of the god-king myth reading the ancient Summerian legends if Ishtar. God dies, goez to underworld, comes to life. Saves humanity.

Then The Golden Bough. Laid out the stories many cultures have. It is surprising how many virgin births there are.

Finally A History of Joseph Smith by his Mother. Mother Smith lays out all sorts of information that shatters the LDS faith building stories.

Never heard of that one. I'll have to check it out.

It wasn't what started my path but it was the nail in the coffin to my testimony.

It opened my eyes to the lies that the Brethren clearly told, to Steve's face. I became pretty much NOM after that point in my life.

"Under the Banner of Heaven" Krakauer
opened my mind to the violent faith I inherited and how deceptive they were. Like Krakauer said, "If the Mormon church is what it claims to be, the one true church of Jesus Christ on the face of the Earth, that they're willing to maintain the world's biggest army of missionaries to go proclaim that truth, then why doesn't it just open up the President's vault and let journalists shout that truth from the rooftops?"

Good question.

"Insider's View of Mormon Origins" Palmer, got me seriously questioning the foundational claims of the faith I inherited. That was pretty much enough to convince me I couldn't in good conscience raise my children to believe the lies I was indoctrinated to believe.

That's what gave me the courage to put my foot down with my wife and Bishop, who had threatened me with divorce and excommunication if I dared breath a word of my doubts to anybody, especially my wife and kids.

"In Sacred Loneliness" is what got my Nazi TBM wife to quit believing. Unfortunately, without MOrmonism to guide her morally, she became an alcoholic cougar and my ExWife.

koriwhore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> "In Sacred Loneliness" is what got my Nazi TBM
> wife to quit believing. Unfortunately, without
> MOrmonism to guide her morally, she became an
> alcoholic cougar and my ExWife.

That is what is known as a person with ZERO integrity/ internal bearings. Do tell us of the certain crash and burn out finale of her pitiful existence.

That just goes to show that their words are worth something.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2017 05:07AM by steve benson.

"Unfortunately, without MOrmonism to guide her morally, she became an alcoholic cougar and my ExWife."

I think that says something about how Mormonism fails people in their moral development, though. By teaching blind obedience, you are less able to develop your own moral compass. When she rejected the LDS church, and along with it, its rules of behavior, it sounds like she was morally a child, selfish and undisciplined. She had not yet developed a habit of thinking through and weighing the effects of her behavior that would have helped to prevent her from harming her health and her relationships. That is sad.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2017 03:24PM by seekyr.

seekyr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Unfortunately, without MOrmonism to guide her
> morally, she became an alcoholic cougar and my
> ExWife."
>
> I think that says something about how Mormonism
> fails people in their moral development, though.
> By teaching blind obedience, you are less able to
> develop your own moral compass. When she rejected
> the LDS church, and along with it, its rules of
> behavior, it sounds like she was morally a child,
> selfish and undisciplined. She had not yet
> developed a habit of thinking through and weighing
> the effects of her behavior that would have helped
> to prevent her from harming her health and her
> relationships. That is sad.

I oversimplified of course, but ultimatelty she felt like she "missed out" on finding out what it was like to have multiple sex partners, because of a man whore who fooled her into thinking he was worthy of her sacrifice. She was pissed and decided she was done being controlled by men or any "man made institution"including the institution of marriage.
She was pissed at me for destroying her faith, her identity, her social life, her entire world view.
Instead of joining me in a search fir an alternative that worked for both of us, she decided to just get her rocks off, with zero concern for me, or her family.
That wasnt ok with me.
Hence, ExWife.

"No Man Knows My History" by Fawn Brodie. I will never forget that June day: closing the book, standing up, walking away from the couch, and consciously telling myself, "I've been had my whole life." An incredible feeling and no need to pray about it.

An American Prophet's Record: the diaries and journals of Joseph Smith. I devoured it, noting the inconsistencies in the first vision account, filed it away at the back of my mind, a few years later, I sinned and became an apostate.

"Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine was what made me realize that not just Mormonism, but all religions are a sham.

The book that led me away from TSCC was my own Checkbook.


I was 16 when I got my first job. My parents said I had to pay 10% of my hard earned wages to the church. Then, I had to put half of the rest of it away for my mission.

Why should I go to school all day, do homework, then give up what little free time I had to go to work, if I was going to be forced to give over half of my wages to the church?

What was left for me? Why bother to work in the first place?

My parents got pretty angry when I quit my job, but I didn't see the sense in it. They wanted me to go on a mission, but they didn't want to actually have to pay for it. They wanted ME to pay for the mission THEY wanted me to go on.

I refused to get another job until I graduated from high school.

I had to get out of the house to get away from the pressure to go on a mission. I went to work, took out student loans, and made my own way through college without my parents help.

Didn't pay my church tax during any of that time.


Graduated. Got a better paying job with upward mobility.

Still didn't pay a penny of church tax.


I am 29 years old now, with a bright future, making fairly good money. And I'm proud to say I haven't paid a penny in church tax since I left home at 18.


Yeah, I'd have to say - my checkbook led me out of TSCC.

When the church sued the Leonard Arrington family after his death to keep certain documents that Arrington had from going public.

The Bible

Another one here for the bible.

It wasn't the book, as much as what was in the book (Jesus). It was on my mission things started cracking apart for me. I started reading in the New Testament and what I saw Jesus doing in that book had almost zero to do with a church (in fact religious zealots were the only people Jesus fought against.

I saw Jesus loving, caring, healing, rebuking zealots over tithing, no garments, no geneology, no aaronic priesthood, little talk on Melchizedek except to say that Jesus is the only priest after the order of it, no eternal marriage, no fancy church houses. Pretty much everything seemed not to be happening in the Mormon church or was opposite to what was going on in the Small and Abominable church aka (LDS Inc.).

It was "No Man Knows My History" by Fawn Brodie.

But it SHOULD have been "The Book of Mormon" by Joseph Smith.

What's Going On In There? It's a Verbatim Text of the temple ceremonies. After I read it I thought, "that's what you're supposed to be so worthy for."?

2 books for me. I sat down and read the bom from start to finish. I started the questioning then. A year or so later I read secret ceremonies then Mormon enigma and I found this board.

I cut my teeth on the Tanners book "Mormonism, Shadow or Reality."

In the years since until I hooked up to the internet I collected and read many if not most of the books mentioned above.

"The Mormon Murders". Once I realized that the First Presidency couldn't figure out that Mark Hoffman was a fraud I had little faith in them.

For me, reading in general whether it be fiction, the news, National Geographic, etc., all contributed to the malaise of my LDS upbringing.

From childhood onward. Incrementally. There isn't any one book I attribute that led me away from the church. By time I'd discovered the historical accounts that are reference resource materials on Mormonism I was already questioning the doctrine.

Reading the history for the first time just solidified my suspicions that the Mormon church was built on sand. There's even a scriptural reference for that in the bible. That it was founded by a proverbial false prophet, and subsequent false prophets since, reinforced my decision to leave.

I will say the authoritative source for me that trumped any of the Mormon scriptures was and still is the Holy Bible. It always struck a wrong chord with me to hear in the church that the bible was the word of God only insofar as it was translated correctly. And that the BoM superceded where there were any contradictions.

The bible is vastly superior to any of the Mormon scriptures, and is an actual history and testament of the Jewish people. If I was going to defer to one scripture over the other, it wasn't going to be the BoM. Once I started questioning in earnest the plural marriage doctrine and other false doctrine, the gig was up for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2017 08:13PM by Amyjo.