I've occasionally heard RFM posters mention how relatives of theirs have put the church in their will instead of their children. Do these people choose this on their own or does the church encourage it and/or pressure them? Is this standard practice or something out of the ordinary? If the church does encourage it do they do it to ALL members or just certain ones and how do they decide when to approach the member about it?
It is one of the things people can do with their estates-- leave it to a religious organization. Some Mormons may have a tradition of doing that, others may just prefer it, and some may feel pressured. In some cases, there are no living children, so this makes sense to the member. I suppose some do it to spite their own children. That's always a possibility.
I was at a meeting many years ago where it was explained, in general terms. But we never considered it.
I don't know anyone personally that has donated their estate to the LDS Church. Usually, if there is any kind of estate left, it's divided among the children if there are any.
freeman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm sure there are plenty of hardcore TBMs who > would donate their entire estate to the church. I > feel sorry for their families!
I don't feel sorry for the families. There is no entitlement to a parent's estate.
you will have to pardon me, I was one of those pple who was grosssly mistaken by thinking that parenthood had to do with nuturing offspring, preparing, assisting and helping support them in life, but I learned the hard way that MORmON parenting is really just a big glory pageant for MORmON parents to create living monuments to their own supposedly great MORmON parenting and more two legged cattle members for the (GOD DAMNED) LDS corporation to suck blood from and fleece, and those offspring are supposed to be so sick and twisted that they just repeat the cycle.
yah.... its a beautiful system, until the Jesus dividends dont show up from paying tithing like LDS Inc said they would and it becomes apparent that its not really sustainable.
MY (FUCKING ASSHOLE) MORmON male parent worked me like a slave as a teen ( I KNOW! MY FAULT! I DID IT! OUT OF FOOL HEARTY YOUTHFUL DUTY AND RESPECT! DONT WORRY THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!)
to the detriment of my grades and education to build up a savings account to pay for "my" (HIS!) mission. then he looted that account. After I had scuttled my educaton, pissed away two years selling LDS BS, and was completely broke they kicked me out on my own and wished me well on starting an adult life and having a carreer. For ME, The leg up that was my savings account turned out to be an amputation! WHAT A GREAT DEAL!
But LDS INC and their (FUCKING ASSHOLE) member my male parent got what they wanted to make their MORmON world go around. AND in MORmONISM, the MORmON kingDUMB getting its way is all that matters!
after all the CRAP I did to meet my MORmON Parents demands and their MORmON church's demand, GOD DAMN RIGHT I EXPECT SOMETHING IN RETURN!
LDS Inc should thank their MORmON JESUS EVERY (FUCKING) DAY that my parents did not do something as FUCKING STUPID as giving MY !!!!! inheritance to the FUCKING LDS INc church!
just because some things are legal does NOT mean they are moral or appropriate, NO MATTER what the thieving corporate bandits like LDS INC and their MONEY GRUBBING attorneys say. Those thieving bastards should be in prison anyway if things were REALLY working correctly!
> I don't feel sorry for the families. There is no entitlement to > a parent's estate.
I totally agree with this. It doesn't matter if your parents are billionaires, children are not entitled to their parents wealth if they did nothing to help build it.
If parents leave nothing to children it shows one of two things:
1) It shows how unloving the parents were in life.
2) It shows how much of an ass the child was in life.
I'd hate to have parents who didn't want to take care of us.
I have 2 disabled brothers (one born that way, one had a stroke at age 42). What would we have done without our parents leaving something?
AND I have struggled as a single mother for years and years--and worked 2 jobs. I haven't had new furniture at all in 20 years becuase I put all my money in my kids. They left me some of the money, too. They can NEVER know what it has meant to me--EVER.
My uncle was a multi-millionare and SP and was a bastard. He tried to declare his wife incompetent before he died so she couldn't spend his money and thought of leaving it to the church. HA HA HA HA LDS church--you didn't get his money either. He left it to his kids and grandkids (his daughter died at age 37 and left 6 kids and he left equal portions to them).
No--we aren't "entitled"--my parents kids have never been entitled--but I worship the ground my parents walked on. It wasn't any husband or boyfriend who gave me safety and security, it was that man I call "Dad."
a parents love either!! this doesnt just happen with Mormons... many churches get their congregations enheritance....prolly not very many but this sort of thing is not unheard of or confined to the Mormons.
"I don't feel sorry for the families. There is no entitlement to a parent's estate."
That sounds pretty heartless.
parents are definitely entitled to enjoy (and spend) their own estate. If they die broke, meaning they spent it all, great.
-Most- older people will want to always have money in the bank to live on and when they go, I would hope that they would spread what's left of their wealth first to their children.
Now if the kids were jerks and there were no or lost family connections, that happens, but if the family remained a unit thruout the parents lives...and then the kids find out that their parents wanted to buy their way into mormon heaven, that is a shitty thing to do to your kids.
So I seem to care more about the families than than you do.
True, there is no entitlement, but it IS DEFINITELY traditional in our culture, so much so, that denying your estate to your family or anyone in it is seen very negatively toward either the deceased or the family member.
if you go to LDS. org go to philanthropy they show you different ways you can leave your money to the church. They will help you with the legal aspects of it of course.
My parents have 6 kids. They are leaving their estate to the church. I suspect that by the time they die all there will be is bills. The church can have those.
mia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- . > > My parents have 6 kids. They are leaving their > estate to the church. I suspect that by the time > they die all there will be is bills. The church > can have those.
Of course, the church does not bet the bills. The executor handles all of that.They are paid before the net of the estate is turned over to the LDS Church, of course.
I guess i have an attitude about all of this. I don't need my parents money and never planned on inheriting any thing. My parents have paid the church for the privilege of working for them for free for the last 20 years. I'm sure they have spent a small fortune traveling over the entire country several times, while providing their own vehicle, fuel, and their housing. They lost all of their relationships with their children and grandchildren. Now they need assistance, the church is nowhere to be found.
Users, thieves, liars. They prey on the elderly. of course my parents don't see it that way. If there is anything left (doubtful) the church will get that too.
mia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I guess i have an attitude about all of this. I > don't need my parents money and never planned on > inheriting any thing. My parents have paid the > church for the privilege of working for them for > free for the last 20 years. I'm sure they have > spent a small fortune traveling over the entire > country several times, while providing their own > vehicle, fuel, and their housing. They lost all of > their relationships with their children and > grandchildren. Now they need assistance, the > church is nowhere to be found. > > Users, thieves, liars. They prey on the elderly. > of course my parents don't see it that way. If > there is anything left (doubtful) the church will > get that too.
A very wealthy man in SLC left over 5 million to a pvt foundation the purpose of which is to support the MORG. Interesting to me that he didn't leave it directly to the MORG. 1 reason may be to employ his adult children.
...I do have a few things I'd like to leave to the church:
1. A mimeographed program from a teenage Fireside where Einar Erikson told us that blood would run up to a horse's neck during the Apocalypse.
2. A crepe paper decoration from the basket ball hoop at the Gold and Green Ball where I first decided that what I wanted most was to dance with my girlfriend's brother.
3. A pair of stained garment bottoms I used to clean up the wheel bearings on my utility trailer.
When my father received a 4-bypass heart surgery (in his eighties), and was in recovery, he asked if there were anyone in the ward (in south Salt Lake) who could help with shoveling his sidewalks when it snowed. He doesn't have a lot of sidewalks, and he thought that this would be an opportunity for a scout service project (or something) until he got better. The ward told him that no one was available. BTW, my father worked at that ward in their various, menial 'callings' (including putting up/taking down chairs for every function) for 40+ years.
However, this did not stop the bishoprick from repeatedly asking my father to 'catch up' and pay his tithing (which he had done to the church for almost 50 years, and to this same ward for almost 40 years), so that he can receive a temple recommend. When I was in that ward, we were told that if we paid tithing on our gross wages, then we would not be tithed on our retirement income after we retire. They apparently 'forgot' this. My father lives only on a modest social security income. He didn't pay this requested tithing.
When my father approached 90 years of age, the bishoprick returned and offered my father a new deal: If he would sign his house over to LDS Corp right then, they would put him in a nursing home, and make sure that he was well taken care of. My father asked who would be paying for the nursing home care, and they said, "Medicare". My father refused again.
I have heard stories from others that their elderly relatives are approached, and asked to either sign away their property to the Corp while they're still alive, or to be named beneficiaries in their wills.
I don't know if this is the result of an official 'policy' but I'm sure it's something that is 'encouraged' by the Corp. If asked directly about this, I'm sure the Corp will deny that these 'approaches' take place, or say that it's 'not aurthorized'.
It sickens me to see how much of the Corp is all about money, and how they try to get their hands on as much of your money as they can.
Where I live, this sort of behavior by a church might well be considered to be preying on a fragile elderly person. We have a local government department in charge of preventing abuses of this type.
I'm sorry that your father was treated so horribly by an organization that he supported faithfully for so many years.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2011 05:30PM by summer.
They do everything for you except make sure you considered your surviving family/kids first. One of the reasons is because you "Own assets not suitable as a gift to heirs". It is not a gift, it is an inheritance! Yeah, my kids don't need cash.
The LDS foundation, or something like that, called my dad and encouraged him to commit to willing his estate to the church. He was pissed! I'm glad my dad was able to see how completely inappropriate such a demand is.
Still pan handling for money even after you are dead. If they don't manage to bleed you dry while you are alive they will clean you out when you are six feet under.
Years ago I met a guy at church who confided in me that he was employed by the church. His job was to go to widows, and older well-to-do members, and talk them into leaving their estates to the church. I tried to get more details out of him but got the impression from him that he had already said more than he should have. This still upsets me every time I think of it.
pljlv Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Years ago I met a guy at church who confided in me > that he was employed by the church. His job was > to go to widows, and older well-to-do members, and > talk them into leaving their estates to the > church. I tried to get more details out of him but > got the impression from him that he had already > said more than he should have. This still upsets > me every time I think of it.
Are you serious? This is crazy! It's one thing if the member decides to do this on their own, but to actually have church directed scouts trying to obtain estates from elderly people is sick and wrong. This should be exposed to the media and the authorities if true!
I believe a 40 year old man may have been exactly this type of person , my mother left him his entire estate, I am now in probate can you reach out to me I need help and there are many things about her will that seem odd and he started moving quickly on taking over her finances after my younger sister died .
pljlv Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Years ago I met a guy at church who confided in me > that he was employed by the church. His job was > to go to widows, and older well-to-do members, and > talk them into leaving their estates to the > church. I tried to get more details out of him but > got the impression from him that he had already > said more than he should have. This still upsets > me every time I think of it.
Good lord. I am so grateful that I was the only church member in my family. A thing which used to cause me sadness is now something to be extremely grateful for.
Can someone help me , my mother was coerced by her home teacher to leave everything to him and his family, perhaps he was trying to get her to leave to the church , her estate is extensive and she was told aboit "secrets" and she couldn't tell others about. We were not estranged but al, of the financial decisions happened after my sisters untimely death, I am certain he preyed on her. She was very ill I would like to know more about these home teachers , one of my mothers tenants said it was a revolving door of missionaries but one overseer (the home teacher) who is married and travels with his family
Sunshinemama Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Can someone help me , my mother was coerced by her > home teacher to leave everything to him and his > family, perhaps he was trying to get her to leave > to the church , her estate is extensive and she > was told aboit "secrets" and she couldn't tell > others about. We were not estranged but al, of the > financial decisions happened after my sisters > untimely death, I am certain he preyed on her. She > was very ill I would like to know more about these > home teachers , one of my mothers tenants said it > was a revolving door of missionaries but one > overseer (the home teacher) who is married and > travels with his family
As you describe this, this may well fall under a series of crimes called "elder financial abuse" (which most broadly includes theft by someone who is trusted by the person being stolen from, and this person being stolen from is above the legally-established age in your state). These crimes are serious, and are being taken seriously by the various states.
Google: "elder financial abuse, [the state your mother lives in]," and also "elder financial abuse [your mother's city or area, if she lives in a larger town or city, or an area which is popularly recognized by a particular name, like "Southern California" or "San Fernando Valley"].
There is very probably a government agency [like a Social Services agency] which does preliminary investigation of potential elder abuse crimes, and they often function as a conduit to the local prosecutor's office, if (after their preliminary investigation) they believe that elder financial abuse crimes either have occurred, or are occurring.
You can also proceed by doing a Google search for "elder financial abuse, attorneys, [your mother's state or area]."
What you describe does sound like textbook elder financial abuse under the law. I wish you and your mother all the best.
>Remember that they "gave" them everything they own the day >they first went to the temple.
>They already own it, technically.
Oh, I am not *upset*, not upset just like LDS Inc never speakS negatively of other faiths.... according to Gordon BS Hinckley.
I *LOVED* being blindsided by LDS Inc with their EVIL temple oaths... with the same kind of MORmON *love* that Brigham Young described as the motivation for blood atonement of others who had faltered beyong conventional salvation.
That is elder abuse. That is also FRAUD. LDS operatives should be in jail over this, and if an investigation discovers a conspiracy by leadership in SLC, RICO statutes should be enforced and assets of LDS Inc seized.
If my parents had been groomed for this undertaking, I would be making copies of any proposals LDS Inc had prepared and forwarding them to FBI offices as far away from Utah as possible. I would also be sending copies of them to anyone who may be running against Mitt.
This quite simply is the darkest evilness of greed, marketed as eternal salvation. It is an inexcusable con.
They make sure the children are alienated from their parents before they make their move. My parents live 300 miles from me and have 20 years of "missions" to separate them from family. We are not privy to any "deals' that are being made.
The only good that has come from this is that i will NOT repeat this insanity. My parents tried their damndest(sp) to give ME to the church. Oh no, not so fast there my friends. It took a while for me to catch on, but better late than never. My heart breaks for all of the children ( i don't care if you're 20 or 70) that have been drug through this hell. It's not right. The best i can do is move forward and make sure my kids and grandkids NEVER experience being robbed physically,mentally,emotionally,spiritually,and financially by the mormon church.
I farmed some land that an old guy had donated to the MORG and he wasn't even a member (it's complicated)...anyway...I rented it for 6 years and got a real education when dealing with the church welfare dept. What a bunch of fucking idiots....not a clue as to what it took to run a farm but at least they left me alone for the most part...
There is an advertisement on KBYU, pushing for elderly people to will their estate to BYU.
The attractive elderly couple in the commercial are the very ones who met with my parents, when my father was dying of cancer. My sister and I would say, Brother and Sister ______ are coming over AGAIN? They were younger than my parents, and weren't very close friends with them, and now all of a sudden they were acting like best buddies. They really put the pressure on my parents, and they made a donation (our parents wouldn't tell us how much), but we did talk them out of including BYU or the church in their wills.
Our neighbors across the street bled out their life savings, by going on three senior missions--while their daughter's husband died and left her unemployed with 4 children. Their son was unemployed for several years, with 3 children. These missions lasted 3 years (he was mission president) and the others were 2 years, out of the country. They were finally sent home, when the wife got sick, and she died a few weeks later. Our neighbor ended up broke, and lost their house. They had no real relationship with their grandchildren.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 03:42AM by forestpal.
this is exactly the kind of crap I am talking about.
My aunt and Uncle are on a perma mission in Salt lake City, avoiding the 9 kids they popped out years ago as good members, and now also their grandkids that have come along. These families could really use some assistance! but there is my aunt and uncle pounding away to help out DEAD PPL and POS blood sucking LDS Inc.
when I was in grade school my MORmON male parent had me milking cows, at age 8, to help out the family he said. I didn't mind the thought of helping my family, I wanted to, in that scheme of things, but when I look back and realize that what I was really doing was generating income so my stupid ass MORmON male parent could pay his membership dues to his God Damn non golfing MORmON country club so a bunch a fat cat LDS elite could live high on the hog, I get really pissed off about it.
I know I was raised with a shortage style mentality because we were always scrambling to keep up on our MORmON member payments. LDS inc used to hit ppl up for everything they could think of! remember "ward budget" ?
LDS inc exec bastards can have a ward budget alright, with money printed from the hide cut right off of their own fat cat LDS Inc executive asses!
and now these POS MORmON Jackals are out trying to loot ppls inheritance from their brain dead MORmON parents? it might be legal, but it AINT RIGHT. I'd pass a law that says family has first claim over ANY CORPORATION! Thanks to the other person who said LDS leaders should be in prison over this stuff.The MORmONS are so fond of Jewish Laws and jewish ways, this kind of crap would never fly with the old testament crowd, where personal legacy is everything. I bet the LDS church would NOT be taking many inheritances in Israel.
forestpal Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Our neighbors across the street bled out their life savings, by going on three senior missions--while their daughter's husband died and left her unemployed with 4 children. Their son was unemployed for several years, with 3 children.
I would argue that in most cases (unless immense wealth is involved,) families need the money. My mom survived my dad by decades, and she needed every last cent of money that he left her. Her bequest to me upon her death enabled me to pay off my crippling student loans and to purchase my own home. That in turn (when it's paid off,) will enable me to enjoy a solid retirement. A bequest by a great aunt financed my first car. That in turn allowed me to move across country to a better job. My niece's and nephew's educations at wonderful schools were paid for through a bequest by their maternal grandfather. In turn, I very much hope that whatever I can leave to my niece and nephew one day will help them to move their lives forward (by possibly purchasing homes, starting businesses, paying for their childrens' educations, etc.)
I would urge the Mormon faithful to provide for their families first! They have already given more than enough to LDS, Inc.
My father has put me the heathen in charge of his end of life decisions and care...also his estate. He is most concerned for his youngest who has health problems.
I will do as he wishes.
But nothing will go to any religion. By his choice.
Not sure why he doesn't trust his TBM offspring.
I would imagine that if people put the church first in life they may do so in death. I was raised by a southern man who believed blood means something.
Speaking of donating to the church, someone donated land on HY89 in Layton. Now we have a big ugly ward house going in on what is an otherwise beautiful mountainside.
beansandbrews Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I was raised by a southern man who believed blood > means something.
I was raised by a [maternal-side] family with long-time southern roots, and a [paternal-side] family from very-recently-European roots...and (without any discussion at all on the matter that I can EVER remember), blood meant EVERYTHING. It just DID.
When it became my turn to take over as "the" [responsible] family adult, blood meant EVERYTHING.
It would never have occurred to anyone to take family assets (some of them earned through a great deal of suffering; the pervasive specter of the Depression still lingered when I was growing up) and give those assets away to anyone who either was not literally family, or was not so long-term close to family that they basically qualified as honorary family members...
...the thought was unimaginable (other than a token $100 here and there, to the Heart Fund or whatever, on behalf of a family member who had reason to support that cause).
I still find it difficult to comprehend that middle-class families would turn over family assets to a church, rather than distribute those assets wisely to the still-living older relatives who needed them, or to the newer generations growing up...
...because, in the family I grew up in, the idea of putting church before family was a literally incomprehensible point of view.
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2016 10:03PM by Tevai.
When you qualify for membership in AARP, you start getting all kinds of requests for donations to help all types of causes.
Almost all of them suggest you include them in your estate planning, this includes churches, universities, social services, your HMO's, hospitals etc., etc. etc.
Like everything LDS seems to do more arm twisting then the others to get you to sign on the dotted line.
The LDS church isn't the only organization that does this, they just have a convenient pool of very easily manipulated people who have long been conditioned to think the church is more important than their families.
I work for a university, and our development officer has a tag line about it in her email signature. Many charities have info about it in their literature. It always makes me cringe.
However, if my kids turned out to be horrible people, I might consider leaving the money to a good cause like the food bank.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2016 07:25AM by excatholic.
I normally don't like resurrected threads, but this one is over the top. I'm sure getting the money of the elderly is a very old practice that's easier than taking candy from a baby. That they do it with a clear conscience is even more astounding. But I feel worst for the victims. Not only do they learn after death that a brain dead cult stole their life, but all of their hard work in life only went to perpetuate the enterprise.