Wow. And I also noticed how very reverent the congregation was as she started her testimony. Seems like she needed a bullhorn and not just a microphone!
Endless amount of respect for her. At twelve I was pretending to be straight, but I came out as a lesbian a year and a half ago, when I was eighteen. It's sad that lesbians (along with other LGBT individuals in the church) have to make such an active effort to validate themselves as worthy of love.
Well, if you're going to have an open mic, you really ought to believe in Free Speech and the GIFT of individuality.
What should have happened is the bishop should have let her finish and then gone to the mic. He should have thanked her, and then told the congregation that Sister X was very courageous, and that she should be loved and supported for being the wonderful child of God that she is.
BYU Boner Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > What should have happened is the bishop should > have let her finish and then gone to the mic. He > should have thanked her, and then told the > congregation that Sister X was very courageous, > and that she should be loved and supported for > being the wonderful child of God that she is.
I was never fluid. I knew as a very young child long before I knew the terms used to describe us. The first time I heard them I just went, "Uh-oh," in my head. "Oh man, I'm screwed."
So when did you first realize your sexual orientation? IDK if you are, but a lot of heterosexuals take for granted that their identity is the default one and it's only confusion and turmoil that makes a person realize he or she is not heterosexual. That's just not the case.
Many people are absolutely certain about their orientation, even well before puberty. It's not that wild of an idea that people CAN be certain about specific parts of their identities before entering the Formal Operational stage.
I plead the 5th on this. And no I don't mean my rights that are protected by the 5th Amendment of the US Constitution. I mean the 5th century as the Restoration doctrine is all about restoring things as they originally were in the primitive church. And its around the 5th century that the last remnants of the glorious gospel were lost to the world when Moroni hid up the records in the stone box way above the massive Cumorah record room.
Its marvelously obvious to all that the same unchanging doctrines that we'll always get to wondrously defend for all eternity. If the doctrines were to change then everyone, especially anyone honest who becomes an investigator, would think the Church is a fraud. Thus its all about maintaining the same doctrinal status quo of the 5th century (and earlier) or else the whole foundation crumbles.
I would love it if we had some videos of Brigham Young and other early leaders when they preached the unchanging doctrines so eloquently. That way when people in the 21st century analyze what he taught they would be less able to take things out of context. The start on establishing a marvelous foundation for Mormonism being true (vs. being some fraud) sure got started when Joseph Smith was willing to sacrifice a bit of his farm work labor time to get away from those supervising him by finding shelter in a secluded grove of trees to bend down on his knees and contemplate alternative career paths besides devoting his life to the agriculture industry.
Unchanging doctrines? I don't think you would recognize the Mormon Church if you walked into a congregation 150 years ago. You would wonder what church you were in.
danr Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Unchanging doctrines? I don't think you would > recognize the Mormon Church if you walked into a > congregation 150 years ago. You would wonder what > church you were in.
I sure wished I'd had her courage when I was a twelve-year-old agnostic. I told my father, and I got punished for it, disowned, really. But I wished I'd told the whole sorry branch of deluded morons in the congregation that they were worshipping thin air.
in the third person, even when I was there. She seldom addressed a remark directly TO me; it was always to someone else ABOUT me. And she wasn't nice about it. When I knew she was coming for a visit, I made myself as scarce as I could.
If I had made some sort of announcement at age 12, saying, for example, that I didn't want to go to church, as I didn't believe in that any more, this friend would have just said, disdainfully, "oh, she's just going through a phase. They all do that." And she would have encouraged my mother to force me to go.
I absolutely agree a 12 year old can speak her truth and should not feel censored in front of any group. Recorded is another vessel for social media to share in her amazing "testimony". Hope there are others willing to shock their home wards. It's a win for everyone. That priesthood suit and smug face pisses me off the most. Asshole..
Well now she'll be facing excommunication at age 12. Was that one of her parents btw, taping her speech while she gave it? Since it was all scripted, it does beg the question if she was coached or not.
So she'll lose her church membership, and life reverts back to the same as it was before. Only now there'll be one less young girl who calls herself a Mormon.
Hope she finds a fellowship group who'll accept her where she's at without her needing to seek affirmation or approval from them at an open mike.
You can be sure she'll be called in to be interrogated to the third degree now by her bishop.
I'd be resigning if I were her, or her parents should do it for her.
She doesn't need to be made to feel ashamed on top of whatever else she's now dealing with, including shunning by her former friends, teachers and counselors at church.
If she's in a Mormon community it's only just beginning ie, the taunts and bullying.
Her parents would be wise to remove her from that environment if they are able to.
Some back story to this is that the girl begged her parents for 4+ months to give her talk (that she wrote entirely on her own) and her parents relented. They were afraid of the reaction she would get. The parents did not take it, but when extended family found out what she was about to do, they showed up en masse and one of the extended family members recorded it. This happened early May and was just now made public.
I'm going to catch hell for this, but at age 12 I was still building model airplanes and not talking about girls even if I had a crush on one in my class.
Sorry, but IMO the pendulum on sexualization has swung so far in every aspect of life that often kids can't be kids any more, and it sometimes gets in the way of other aspects of life, almost as if thave *must* see everything in a sexual way.
BTW, I have two girls, one "non-binary" with a girlfriend (they call each other "they") and the other very liberal.
13.75 is the average for menarche in the USA and believe it or not, girls and boys think about sex quite a bit around this age as the hormones are ramping up (This is NOT a defense for early sexual experimentation). I know I did at age 11 even though I didn't experiment till around 12-13 with the exception of masturbation. I think it's healthy for kids to have a positive and educated view on sexuality, especially considering the crap I hear from kids at the school where I work. I don't see this as sexualization as all, just her accepting part of her identity at a young age.
One of the issues society has overall with lesbians is how they are sexualized through the male gaze and it spills over to sexualizing lesbians even doing the most innocent of actions like hugging a friend or holding hands with a girlfriend. Several years ago, for example, a poster came on here to talk about her girlfriend, then all the gross male sexual entitlement came out from several male posters here, "Send us pictures," "I'm a lesbian in a man's body," shit like that which is not funny, clever, or acceptable. (The comments were deleted, but I take note of this kind of behaviour since it's my field of study.)
It's no different than a 12 year old girl professing how she wants to get married to a good man, have babies, and be a good mother.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2017 11:06AM by Itzpapalotl.
Same sex experimentation is actually quite common at this age (like kissing and show me yours I'll show you mine play), even between heterosexual and homosexual girls and boys and every other orientation. It's perfectly normal part of adolescent development and even hetero boys and girls that engaged in kissing the same sex or masturbating together end up identifying as heterosexual.
It ain't just makeovers, prank calls, and pillow fights at sleepovers, folks.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2017 11:05AM by Itzpapalotl.
I hope that girl realizes before it's to late what a hateful fraud the LDS church is. She seems very smart and confident so ironically one day she will grow up become a doctor that cures childhood cancer thereby saving the life of a future grandchild in the audience that day of ignorant Mormon sheep.
Different people discover their sexuality in different ways at different times.
I had my first homosexual desires at age four. I had no idea what sex was except that it was something adults did physically with each other in the dark. I thought it was some kind of wrestling. But I knew I wanted to do it with other males! I had my first sexual experience at age nine with the ten year old boy from across the street.
No, I was not molested nor the subject of any inappropriate sexual contact from any teen nor adult. I was initiating sexual activities with other willing little boys by age ten.
I went through puberty very early. I was shaving three times a week in the fourth grade.
The cat is out of the bag. The tapirs are off and running. This girl is going to get an eye-opener now. She has just polarized her situation. She is going to get to see what Mormonism really is--up close and personal. Hope she stays strong and doesn't let it break her.
I'm speechless. Made me wonder what if I had done the same thing in the early sixties? I don't think a tap on the shoulder and being asked to sit down would have been all of it. Probably wouldn't have just been dragged off the stand, but dragged straight to shock therapy or worse. Few more taunting and fistfights than usual to get through. Made me realize that this girl has a world of support even though none of the support comes from the Mormons--quite the opposite. They never forget to twist the knife after they have stuck it in.
But, there are so many people in the civilized world today who don't see someone else's happiness anymore as a threat to their own. Parents who choose their child over a religion. So, even if she is shunned by some, this girl will find her "people," eventually. Those are the ones who are bit more open,enlightened,empathetic and kind. Who have lives of their own and are devoid of the need to stick their nose in someone else's. Like those here at RFM.
She clearly has parental support I would say. One Mormon gay kid who won't get tossed to the streets or told to deny her very self. Yay.
My particular rant I get on when stuff like this happens is that the this girl, no matter how diminutive, represents a threat to the very engine of Mormonism. The engine of Mormonism runs on guilt and shame. Every time a person demonstrates that he or she is comfortable in his or her own skin, it lowers the tank level of the available supply of guilt and shame. Without an ample supply, the motor will stumble, run rough, and then stall. To keep producing and refining guilt and shame, the church must protect itself from the likes of this little girl.
I do believe you are on to something there. The biggest enemy of the Mormon church is people actually liking themselves and being immune to the guilt. Without guilt and shame, they got nuthin'.
Here is the transcript of Savannah's testimony, up to the point that the microphone was abruptly cut off. It was on the website of the British tabloid dailymail.com, with a very supportive article and pictures.
My name is Savannah and I want to share my testimony with you.
I believe I am a child of heavenly parents. I don't know if they talk to us, but I feel in my heart that they made me and that they love me. I believe I was made the way I am, all parts of me, by my heavenly parents.
They did not mess up when they gave me brown eyes, or when I was born bald. They did not mess up when they gave me freckles or when they made me to be gay. God loves me just this way because I believe that he loves all his creations.
I do believe he made this way on purpose, not part of me is a mistake.
I do not choose to be this way, and it is not a fad. I cannot make someone else gay and being around me won’t make anyone else this way. I believe that God wants us to treat each other with kindness, even if people are different, especially if they are different. Christ showed us this.
I believe that we should just love. I believe I am good. I try my best to be nice to each other and stick up for those that are hurting. I know I'm not a horrible sinner for being who I am. I believe God would tell me if I was wrong.
I hope someday to go on dates, go to school dances, to hold hands and to go off to college. I hope to find a partner and have a great job. I hope to get married and have a family.
I know these dreams and wishes are good and right. I know I can have all of these things as a lesbian and be happy. I believe that if God is there, he knows I am perfect, just the way I am and would never ask me to live my life alone or with someone I am not attracted to.
He would want me to be happy. I want to be happy. I want to love myself and not to feel shame for being me. I ask you...
Too bad I was not in the audience. I would have marched up there and told the bishop to sit the hell down. And then told her to continue with or without the mic. This is outrageous and I hope the media plays this on every channel. F*@#!@ CULT.
I remember something in The Constitution -- that document that the LDS have argued for years will be hanging by a thread until the LDS priesthood rescues it -- about Freedom of Speech.
And I remember something in official MORmON doctrine about something called Free Agency. We have a right to make decisions for ourselves...
So, yes -- by all means, cut her mike when she starts to spout such sinful blather from the almighty Fast & Testimonkey pulpit...
Yeah, let's show the entire world how "Christian" MORmONs are...
At 12, this young woman has a lot more courage than I had. I quietly left "the" church because there were so many things that just did not make sense. Kudos to her.
Free speech. This happens all too often. Organizations such as religions and companies can control what is said in their buildings. This is well-established. Free speech only applies to the government. In this case, the psuedo-religion of Mormonism is a corporation, so they can restrict what people say in their meetings.
For all her courage, Savannah might have chosen the wrong platform for coming out. I would never think of going to a Synagogue and start talking to the congregation about eating pork. I'd have a little respect for their beliefs.
The guy that cut her off was not mean and did not drag her out of the building. Fast and testimony meeting is not the place to say anything other than the party line. If you feel like you need to say anything other than the party line, go somewhere else. It's that simple. Don't stay in an abusive cult and try to change it from the inside. It won't happen. You'll just drive yourself crazy.
At the same time, she might just be way ahead of her time. Anecdotally, I have spoken to several gay Mormons who loved "the" church, but were 100% gay and never going to be hetero. They wanted to be Mormon and gay. I don't know why. I am hetero and I certainly don't want to be Mormon.
T-Bone
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2017 09:38AM by T-Bone.
TMC will [have to] answer for this, directly or indirectly. By this action, more people, members and non-members, are seeing their true color(s). TSCC is in a perpetual fix (it is broken), asking itself, do we allow our followers to open their mouths [when they aren't being force fed (24/7)] or FORCE them to keep them closed (along with their hearts- and minds).
Who has seen the video that(mic shut-off) guy and tscc put out of him [and his dirty ego] being (fake) "mobbed" by the poor, suffering, innocent primary kids?