I seriously thought that defenders of the one and only true church would completely destroy anti-Mormon literature!

How wrong I was. Were you shocked too at how terrible apologetics are? It's honestly almost like it'd be better if they said nothing!

Apologies-to-Allison-Krause-ly yrs,

S

Isn't she something? I have one of her discs.

Agreed.
But you know what's ever more shocking?
That otherwise intelligent mormons DO think that mormon apologists "completely destroy anti-Mormon literature."

:(

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That otherwise intelligent mormons DO think that
> mormon apologists "completely destroy anti-Mormon
> literature."

I didn't think about that actually. That is so sad... :( I mourn for the human race.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2017 12:44PM by ladykorihor.

It's enough for most Mormons to merely know that the apologetics exist; the substance is irrelevant.

It's the rationale behind the Gospel Topic Essays on the LDS website; "Look sheeple, let not your hearts be troubled, for we have addressed some of the troublesome and well-documented issues in our history. Now go about praying, paying, and obeying as you were before. We've got the matter well in hand."

They make a half-hearted effort to reframe the narrative and then declare the matter settled.

I've asked some Mormons whether they read, or even knew of, the Essays. Even the ones who knew of them admitted they hadn't read them, but the universal response was relief that the church had responded to its critics.

And do you know what else is ineffective about Mormon apologetics? It is mean spirited and usually blames the questioner who happened to read and find lots of lies regarding the origins of the church and its leaders. And accuses those who discover huge problems in logic with apologetics, of being vile sinners and lacking moral character.

The apologists often come across as vicious, while mocking truth seekers incessantly; for of all things, discovering the truth.

Hardly an effective way to lovingly "seek after the one" who is searching for a way back.

What should be unsettling to mormons is that the church needs apologetics in the first place. If only there were someone authorized to receive clear irrefutable answers from an omniscient god, and drive all those apostates to their knees… whose deep wisdom could run circles around cunning anti-mormon propaganda… who could demonstrate god's power in time of great need… someone like a prophet… if only…

Cap'n Obvious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What should be unsettling to mormons is that the
> church needs apologetics in the first place. If
> only there were someone authorized to receive
> clear irrefutable answers from an omniscient god,
> and drive all those apostates to their knees…
> whose deep wisdom could run circles around cunning
> anti-mormon propaganda… who could demonstrate
> god's power in time of great need… someone like
> a prophet… if only…

I literally thought that agnosticism/atheism was perfectly rational without God's intervention back as a Mormon. I just thought that God actually intervened then somehow. I figured God would give physical proof of their existence a lot more than they do (never in my view) because if they don't then why believe in them at all? I wanted to bring apostates and gentiles to God as a TBM. I thought surely there was clear irrefutable answers from an omniscient god which I could show them as a missionary but as I got older I still never found such answers.

You mean apologetics like saying that when the king called for his horses and chariots he was really asking for chicken and backpacks?

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

That's what it was like, puttin' the one into the other.

Ive actually never seen a mormon apologetic at work it would be very interesting to see what comes out of their mouth.

Yahwnn.

First off I totally agree with you. When you read apologetics it does come off as completely insane. But so does reading about some kid that had an angel appear to him and give him gold plates to translate. Which is something most of us totally believed at one point. Many of us to the point that we were willing to leave home and preach about it for 2 years.

The thing is that when we started to see in the inconsistencies in the church we chose to leave while other people turned to apologetics to make sense of the inconsistencies.

They are totally ridiculous, utterly laughable, and have no logic behind them.

But then again, what part of the church, or most religion for that matter is logical? At least the doctrine aspect of it.

I totally believed Joseph Smith was a prophet and God had appeared to him. I totally believed that the nephites and lamanites were real, that Moses parted the Red Sea, and that Jesus rose from the dead.

If those things aren't crazier than people saying tapirs and horses are similar than we are being naive.

These people are desperately trying to hold onto their beliefs and we shouldn't just knock them for that. Feel bad for them, try to have an intelligent conversation, but don't just decide they are stupid. We all believed crazy things before and we saw the truth later. I just think they are other humans trying to do what they think is right. Just like we are.

I remember listening to FairMormon a lot in an effort to hold on. I remember reading Jeff Lindsay's blog. I remember FARMS and the Tapirs. I can't remember the names of the other places I went to keep myself believing. Nothing helped for long; the evidence against the church was just too overwhelming. But I tried!

When I go to ex-mormon videos, TBM's are in the comments. They are desperately trying to keep people believing in the Church, or bring them back. I have to laugh when they provide links to FairMormon.I already know their reasonimg, and it never works!

Mormon apologists are busy creating small cracks where someone
who REALLY WANTS TO BELIEVE above anything else, can believe.

They are like the lawyer with a clearly guilty client who tries
to create the slightest bit of doubt in the state's case and hope
someone on the jury will consider it "reasonable doubt."

The apologetics USED to be, "it's a bunch of evil, anti-Mormon
lies by evil people. That's not working any more so now they are
saying things like, "prophets are human," and "'translation' may
have a broad, wide-ranging meaning," and "the critics are making
a mistake by assuming XYZ is to be taken literally," and my
favorite, "this will all be cleared up in the afterlife."

Dan, where R U?

MORmON leaders LIE about MORmONISM far more than any one else. I never would have considered anything that the Tanners said about MORmONISM, except that I noticed that Gordon BS Hinckley was lying about MORmONISM. Anti MORmONS would have nothing to go on IF it was not for all of the ASSistance that they receive from MORmON leaders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YEMX0VooD4

When I read it now, sure, it's pathetic. And I'm guessing a nonmember would think it is insane. But when I was member and not into thinking critically about the church, it all sounded so correct and believable. The thing about apologetics is it is written for people who completely buy into the church. Anyone who is doubting and entertaining the thought that maybe the church isn't true will be pushed into disbelief by it.