"Prominent Ku Klux Klan leader says “I’m glad that girl died” during the Virginia protest, promises more violence in the future.

Justin Moore, the Grand Dragon for the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, said he was glad Heyer was killed in a cowardly attack by fellow white supremacist James Alex Fields Jr., according to a report from WBTV.

Speaking with WBTV, the KKK leader declared:

I’m sorta glad that them people got hit and I’m glad that girl died. They were a bunch of Communists out there protesting against somebody’s freedom of speech, so it doesn’t bother me that they got hurt at all.

I think we’re going to see more stuff like this happening at white nationalist events."

and, the R's are in DEEP DO-DO over this:

They've Fallen and they can't get up...

They can get up.

They just refuse to do so.

The media is trying to suggest mainstream conservatism has some connection to the alt-right wackies. They don't, of course, and the reaction from those on the center right has been consistent with that reality.

And can't get up? The last I checked the GOP has the presidency, the Senate, the House, around 2/3s of the governorship, and will be appointing federal judges for at least four years. It might be time for the left to engage in a little self-reflection as to why the country has roundly rejected them. It should be pretty obvious to anyone who doesn't live in a bubble.

Blanco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The media is trying to suggest mainstream
> conservatism has some connection to the alt-right
> wackies. They don't, of course, and the reaction
> from those on the center right has been consistent
> with that reality.

The president that "mainstream conservatism" elected has a strong connection to the alt-right wackies. So do a number of "conservative" party-member senators and representatives. There's no need to "try" to make a connection, it exists. Those "alt-right wackies" are part of the mainstream conservative base.

> And can't get up? The last I checked the GOP has
> the presidency, the Senate, the House, around 2/3s
> of the governorship...

Notice what they've *done* with the presidency, the senate, and the house since they've had them all: nothing.
Oops.

> It might
> be time for the left to engage in a little
> self-reflection as to why the country has roundly
> rejected them.

"The country" didn't "roundly reject them." The "liberal" candidate won more votes. In case you haven't paid attention the last 200+ years, the party in "power" swings back and forth on a regular basis. The liberals had it for the last 8 years, now it's conservatives' turn. Do something useful with it. This isn't some world-changing event -- it's how our cycles go (8 years of Obama, before that 8 years of Bush, before that 8 years of Clinton, before that 4 years of moderate Bush Sr., before that 8 years of Reagan, before that 4 years of Carter...and so on and so on. Get the point?). And when people get tired of "conservatives," we'll get liberals again. And so on.

> It should be pretty obvious to
> anyone who doesn't live in a bubble.

It is. It's the natural swing of cycles we've always gone through. See above.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2017 06:46PM by ificouldhietokolob.

Nutcase on a Westboro Baptist order of magnitude. Or obvious attention troll. (Which I guess the Westboro's are too)

Ah, America 2017.
How far we've come.

:(

It does't require a leap to realize what a gutless coward Moore to be, "leading" a band of cowards. Yes, beyond "free speech," they aim to kill.

How does one get into tne grand Coward's good graces, again?

Disgusting!

Sounds like a reincarnated Malcolm X.

... and to think that Trump is on board with all of this.

That moron is going to be elected another term, just watch.

I doubt it very much. The only base he's going to have left will be extremist groups.

He may not even last a term at the rate he's bringing himself down and his office.

Don't kid yourself .The Democratic Party is a mess .If they can come up with a decent, fairly honest ,articulate candidate then they might have a chance . Another old serial liar with a reptilian husband won't do the trick.

One of the klan leaders commented that Ivanka married scum when she married a Jew, Jared.

Where is she hiding these days? Since the KKK hates her husband, how can she or her hubby support what their dad is encouraging?

If they have any backbone at all, they'd both be resigning their posts.

They are more interested in money than integrity. She converted so they also hate her.

They're loyal to Ivanka insofar as they're loyal to her father. The disparaging remarks the klansman had to say about her husband did not extend to her.

The second they lose favor w/her dad, no doubt she'll fall out of grace with them too.

I don't think it's fair to apply the actions of the KKK group at this event, to all conservatives or to President Trump. Just as i don't believe all democrats should be categorized by the actions of Antifa at that same event.

I do think it is good for Trump to acknowledge that there was much hate and violence from both groups that day, while speaking out against what happened. If we want to heal as a country, we cannot sit back and choose to ignore what happened. We cannot fix this problem, if the problem cannot even be accurately described. I have not seen Trump support either of these groups in any way, which is more than can be said for many of our other leaders.

Anonymous989 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I
> have not seen Trump support either of these groups
> in any way, which is more than can be said for
> many of our other leaders.

Then you haven't been paying attention, or are intentionally ignoring his support.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anonymous989 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I
> > have not seen Trump support either of these
> groups
> > in any way, which is more than can be said for
> > many of our other leaders.
>
> Then you haven't been paying attention, or are
> intentionally ignoring his support.

Please provide the relevant quote(s) from Donald Trump, with dates and supporting link, of him voicing support for a specific Neo-Nazi and/or Klan organization. If you can't, please have the intellectual honesty to admit it. We're waiting.

P.S. I'm no fan of Trump, but this kind of nonsense is why a lot of people cannot take the left seriously any more.

Blanco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please provide the relevant quote(s) from Donald
> Trump, with dates and supporting link, of him
> voicing support for a specific Neo-Nazi and/or
> Klan organization. If you can't, please have the
> intellectual honesty to admit it. We're waiting.

The KKK is is convinced he supports them. Here's what the "Daily Stormer" wrote after Trump's comments on Charlottesville:

"Trump comments were good. He didn’t attack us. He just said the nation should come together. Nothing specific against us.
He said that we need to study why people are so angry, and implied that there was hate… on both sides!
So he implied the antifa are haters.
There was virtually no counter-signaling of us at all.
He said he loves us all.
Also refused to answer a question about White Nationalists supporting him.
No condemnation at all.
When asked to condemn, he just walked out of the room.
Really, really good.
God bless him."

During the campaign, when told David Duke and the KKK supported him,and asked if he would let the KKK know that he didn't want their support, he lied (telling the interviewer that he didn't know who David Duke was, when he did):

"I don’t know anything about David Duke, okay? I don’t know anything about what you’re even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. So I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know. Did he endorse me? Or what’s going on? Because, you know, I know nothing about David Duke. I know nothing about white supremacists."
(CNN 'State of the Union with Jake Tapper' Feb. 2016)

The truth is, when Trump declined to run for president in 2000 as a member of the Reform Party, he said that he didn’t want to be associated with Duke, who had supported Pat Buchanan’s nomination for the Reform Party. Trump at the time called Duke “a bigot, a racist, a problem.” This only seemed to change once he began running for president in 2015.

Then he lied some more, when asked if he would disavow the support of the KKK:
"Well, I have to look at the group. I mean, I don't know what group you’re talking about. You wouldn’t want me to condemn a group that I know nothing about. I’d have to look."
(same interview)

The truth is, he knew exactly who the KKK was, what they stood for, who their leader was.

There are other instances, but I'll stick with the one above. When you won't tell a group that supports you that you don't want their support, and you lie about not knowing their leader or their organization, you're supporting them. He *wanted* their support. And he got it.

> P.S. I'm no fan of Trump, but this kind of
> nonsense is why a lot of people cannot take the
> left seriously any more.

I'm not "the left." I'm me. If you equate my statements -- right or wrong -- with "the left," you're making a gross generalization mistake.

His support base are the neo-Nazis, KKK, Aryan groups. They feel emboldened and empowered by him as he puts their actions on par with those who oppose inciting hatred and prejudice.

That's the rub that isn't going away.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> His support base are the neo-Nazis, KKK, Aryan groups.

Out of the 60 something million who voted for Trump, how big are these groups? I'm not American, so no dog in this race, just curious.

rt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Out of the 60 something million who voted for
> Trump, how big are these groups? I'm not American,
> so no dog in this race, just curious.

Depends on what you mean by "these groups."
Just the KKK?
A tiny fraction of that (estimates range from 5,000 to 20,000 total).

All "white supremacist" groups?
Another tiny fraction, but larger than the KKK alone (probably somewhere around 200,000 - 300,000).

"alt-right" folks who aren't members of the KKK or other "white supremacist" groups, but who sympathize a lot or a little with them? Somewhere between 500,000 and 2 million (probably -- hard to get reliable numbers).

Folks who aren't members of any of those groups, and who don't identify as "alt-right," but are white and feel "threatened" and would happily make the US a "white only" country?
Again, hard to say exactly, but probably somewhere around 5-6 million.

So at the lowest, a few thousand of the 62 million votes he got. At most perhaps 10-12% of the vote he got.

I don't think he cares about losing the support of the few thousand KKK members. I think he cares a lot about losing the support of the 5-8 million "non-affiliated" white folks who like it when he denigrates "other than whites."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2017 01:00PM by ificouldhietokolob.

The march was called "Unite the Right". They invited the KKK and the Neo-Nazis. They are all the same.

Trying to parse distinctions is coddling Fascism. They killed 3 people and injured 19 people. They are planning more protests.

Quit apologizing for them. The term for such apologetics is "Nazi Sympathizer".

axeldc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quit apologizing for them. The term for such
> apologetics is "Nazi Sympathizer".

I didn't "apologize" for anyone.
I simply broke them up to get estimated numbers.

Thanks, Hie. I found this on CNN (no individual numbers though):

"Over the course of the 2016 presidential campaign, the number of hate groups in the United States grew after falling off following former President Barack Obama's re-election. The number of total hate groups has risen 17% since 2014, to 917 organizations, according to data from the Southern Poverty Law Center. The SPLC specifically pointed to a "presidential campaign that flirted heavily with extremist ideas" for the recent uptick in these groups. However, though the current number is double the number of hate groups that existed in 1999, it falls short of the high of 1,018 hate groups recognized by the organization in 2011."

This includes black and anti-Muslim hategroups. The recent uptick seems mostly due to an increase in the latter:

"Some racist hate groups -- including neo-Nazis, white nationalists and their more violent counterparts, a group dubbed racist "skinheads" -- have seen declining numbers over the last half-decade. The number of white nationalists fell from 146 groups in 2011 to just 100 groups today, according to data from the Southern Poverty Law Center. The number of neo-Nazi groups fell from 170 to 99, and racist "skinheads" fell from 133 to 78 over the same time span. Still, the overall number of hate groups has increased, largely due to increases in anti-Muslim groups and black separatist groups."

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/14/politics/charts-explain-us-hate-groups/index.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2017 01:49PM by rt.

His support base is not neo-Nazis, KKK, Aryan groups. They are fringe groups that are majorly disliked on both sides. His real support base, the one that elected him into office is your neighbors and my neighbors.

Showing up at a demonstration wearing a mask and caring bricks and bats is an interesting way to oppose to hatred and prejudice, don't you think?

Don't get me wrong, I think the Confederate statues need to go for many reasons.

If they are not Nazis, why the Swastikas? Why the Hitler salutes? Why the chants against gays and Jews?

Your support for them utterly disgusts me.

70 million people died because of Fascism. The only 2 sides to this argument are Fascists and those who fight against Fascism.

https://vimeo.com/128373915

axeldc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 70 million people died because of Fascism. The
> only 2 sides to this argument are Fascists and
> those who fight against Fascism.

Not sure I agree. 100 million people died because of Communism. The 20th century was a horrible age all around.

I am disturbed that the term AntiFascist is being used as some sort of pejorative.

I would expect that the overwhelming majority of Americans would consider themselves AntiFascist. America fought the Fascists in Europe in World War II. Hitler and Mussolini were defeated at a very great price. Many Americans gave their lives in the fight against fascism.

One may be critical of some actions of some of the people who protested against the Nazi's and KKK in Charlottesville. But if someone tells me that they don't see themselves as anti-fascist, my question for them is "Why don't you oppose fascism?"

We are becoming so polarized that I can see that some people are taking positions that are in direct conflict with their own values.

Just because Trump is the first president in more than 70 years who seems to have trouble opposing Nazis doesn't mean that almost every other prominent Republican and every Republican president since World War II had no trouble condemning Nazis.

We must all oppose fascism, Nazis and the KKK. Don't let our current polarization give fascists and white supremacists the victories that they seek.

Antifa has made it a pejorative. They label themselves anti-fascist and then go around acting like a bunch of little Brown shirts.

Are you antifascist? I suspect you are antifascist. You don't have to accept others description of theselves. I reject the alt right rebranding and I call these people nazis, racists or white supremacists.

Being antifascist, antiracist and anti white supremacist is honorable, noble and just.

Don't let these extremists co opt you into accepting their language against your own values.

WTF? Does he say that at church while considering the golden rule of Christianity? Gawd help us. We are in a heap-o-sheets.

I wish all the people on this planet would die, all of us, at once. I wish a better species would inherit this earth. We have done our best to destroy it, and have done a pretty good job of that, if nothing else. My granddaughter suggested that the gorillas would be a good species to take over. They are incredibly smart, are loving and kind to each other and to other species as well (which we have not been). She said maybe crows could help them--as they also are very smart, can tell people (and other crows) apart, hold trials for bad ones and then either make them go away or peck them to death. They can tell good people from bad people and will send the message to other groups of crows, as in, "The female one in the blue top gave me French fries and bread," or "The male one with no hair threw rocks at me."

I wish this not because I particularly want to die, although at this point, I really don't care--that's how bad it is in this country, now: I certainly don't wish death on my loved ones and friends and all the good people everywhere. But nobody is stopping the bad ones. We're not pecking them to death or sending them away to an island they can't get off of. We are destroying the environment, other species, and each other at record pace. Time to call a halt. Humans, we have screwed the whole thing up big time, and it's time to pay.

Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary. Am I depressed? Yeah, I guess you could say that. And this business in Virginia and the maniac in the White House and all his pals have made it worse. No impeachment in sight--no good change in sight. It's yours, gorillas and crows--all yours. :(

In the (clearly fictional) bible story, Yahweh decides he screwed up making humans, because they sucked and wouldn't worship him. So he wipes 'em all out with a flood...the easy way out. Except for one "righteous" one, of course. Then, according to the story, he immediately regrets having done it, and promises never to do it again.

But did it work? Did killing all the humans and starting over produce a set of humans that were lovely, kind, righteous, and ever-so-obedient to Yahweh? Nah. The whole thing was a bust.

Change is hard. Taking the easy way out like fictional Yahweh -- and killing all the humans -- is lazy and stupid, as even Yahweh admitted in the story. And doesn't do anything useful.

Facing the hard challenge of overcoming biases, tribal "instincts," etc. -- that could work. It won't be easy. It never has been. But it's the only thing with a hope of working. And doing just that has produced HUGE changes over the past centuries. There's just a lot more to do, and there probably always will be. But it's worth doing.

I think I went to bed and woke up in the wrong century.