As a born-and-raised Catholic, I never once doubted that I would be reunited with my loved ones in heaven. As a young teenager, I lost my beloved father. This was the dad who loved me, raised me, and supported me through thick and thin. And at a pitifully young age for me, he was gone. As I gazed at his body in the coffin, I was talking to him in my mind. And what I shared with him through my thoughts was that I would see him again. "Until we meet again, dad. I will see you again one day."

Same for my mom about fourteen years ago. I genuinely mourned when she died. A few weeks after she died, I was gradually waking one morning, but I was more awake than asleep -- just a little drowsy. I felt her sitting beside me on the bed, stroking the hair off of my forehead. She was sitting in a pool of light that was the purest, cleanest light I had ever experienced. I felt pure love coming from her. It was like a sixth sense had been opened for me. She wanted to let me know that she had survived her earthly death, and that she loves me and is still present in my life.

This belief that we will be reunited with our loved ones in the afterlife is not unique to Catholics. It is a nearly universal belief of Christians. The only whack-a-doodle cult that I know of that does *not* appear to believe this is the Jehovah's Witnesses. But every other Christian that I know of *does* believe this -- Episcopalians. Lutherans. Presbyterians. Methodists. Baptists. Congregationalists. Everyone, pretty much. It is a nearly universal Christian belief. No temple tax required. No ersatz Masonic ceremony. No repeated baptism. No worthiness interviews. What does it mean to be worthy, anyway? Aren't sincere people of good will worthy enough?

Christians find this belief, that they will be reunited with their loved ones, incredibly comforting. They *assume* that they will be reunited. They never think to question it.

In Christian marriages, there is generally a phrase similar to, "until death do you part." This doesn't mean, in the Christian mind, that families will not be reunited after death. It simply states the obvious, that some will remain in the mortal realm while their loved ones have gone on to a heavenly reward (same as the Mormons.) It means that widows and widowers are free to remarry (same as the Mormons.) It does NOT mean that families will be parted forever. Mormons have twisted this phrase in a sick manner to mean something that it simply does not.

In the story of Jesus's crucifixion, he is reported to say to the dying but repentant criminal beside him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise." (Luke 23:43, NIV) What he doesn't say is, "I am going to the Celestial Kingdom, but I will deign to visit you in the lower realms as I see fit." No, Jesus said that he would BE with him.

Mormons do not own the concept of eternal families. Christians also believe that they will be with their families. Other religions and belief systems throughout time have believed this as well, including the ancient Romans and the Norse people. Some anthropologists have speculated that based on their burial rituals, the Neanderthals may have believed this as well. It is a comforting belief that is as old as humanity.

As far as Christians are concerned, Mormon missionaries are selling a promise that has already given through Christ's sacrifice.

There is nothing new under the sun.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2017 06:17PM by summer.

Agree, but what's this about the JWs?

My understanding of Catholic beliefs is that not everyone gets to heaven, There is heaven, purgatory, and hell. With hell, it is eternal separation from god, these people do not get into heaven.

By my understanding of Catholic beliefs, if some of your family had been judged as unworthy of heaven, even by taking a trip through purgatory, they would be separated from the family that was in heaven. They would not be united.

What I was told while investigating TSCC, the head of the household that made it to the celestial temple could call members of the family to the celestial temple, even if they did not make it on their own. At least that is the way it was explained to me.

A couple of months ago, the lectionary reading was John 3:16. As most of you are aware of what it says, I won't repeat it. With the exception of Orthodoxy (which uses a slightly different calendar) all Catholic, Anglican, and mainline Protestants were hearing that text at their Sunday worship.

They were also hearing John 3:17. Vs. 17 doesn't show up at many football games or on bumper stickers. It makes it clear that Christ isn't condemning the world, but saving the world from sin.

My pastor's sermon was on not judging or condemning those who don't or can't believe in God. The great commandment is always to love one another. And Jesus says (yes, I know he's not real for some here) "Judge not, least you be judged."

Yes, there are Bible-bashing "Christians" who are judgmental jerks. They make news with their ungodly hatred. What many Catholic, Protestant, and Anglican leaders would say is that they are the ones most likely to be judged because of their hatred.

I have two relatives who left the Catholic faith separately. Both were surprised when their parish priests apologized for "sins of the church" and didn't condemn them for leaving Catholicism. The priests blessed them and told them to follow their consciences. My own synod bishop makes it clear that churches sin. What is the church? The church is people; people make mistakes. When has the LDS Church ever acknowledged that it has sinned?

Mormonism would have us believe that as a church it doesn't sin. Bullshit! It would also have us believe that other churches condemn non-belief. Bullshit, again. There are church communities in SLC that welcome skeptics and non-believers to participate in community even as non-believers. Others openly welcome visitors whatever they believe or where they're at on their faith journies.

I think this is what Summer was writing about.

As a non-Catholic, I'm not in position to give an insider's view of Purgatory; but from associations with Catholic clergy, Purgatory is a place where penance takes place. It's preparation, not placement.

For many of you, this post will be nonsense. I'm okay with that. It all could, indeed, be nonsense. However, I've yet in many years of visiting Catholic and mainline Protestant churches heard sermons condemning unbelievers or advocating shunning of sinners. Hugs to all, The Boner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2017 09:33PM by BYU Boner.

Not to take away from what you said, but I just want to point out that, while similar, the Catholic, Anglican, and Revised Common lectionaries are not the same. In Year A, the Catholic lectionary contains John 3:16(-18) on Trinity Sunday and the Anglican and Revised Common lectionaries (John 3:1-17) on the 2nd Sunday of Lent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2017 02:20PM by Anziano Young.

Thanks for the clarification! I was aware that there were some differences. So, I'll revise this to state that all liturgical Christians will hear these verses read. Very best wishes!

Not only do they believe in a heaven, but they won't be separated by being in different kingdoms etc. They don't fear a brother being in, for example, a telestial realm while they are in the CK, or vice versa.

Christians can't be separated by heaven and hell? That's news to me.

Many liberal Christians believe hell is only for the worst of the worst and that it may eventually be empty or nearly empty.Again, it depends on the Christian and his denomination.aHell is most popular conservative and literalist groups

Or, in other words, it would still be possible to be separated from family, depending on who is defining the worst of the worst.

Most Americans believe in Hell.


http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/

We are talking about Christian beliefs which differ widely by denomination. What actually happens is a different issue

Yet even with the differences, your statement indicates that even many liberal christian churches believe families can be separated between heaven and hell "Many liberal Christians believe hell is only for the worst of the worst". So they believe in a heaven and hell that could separate family, based on your words.

You claim that the believe it "may" empty out, not "will"

Thanks for helping support my idea that main line Christians, even the liberal ones. believe it is POSSIBLE for families to be separated by heaven and hell, and there is no GUARANTEE that they will be reunited in heaven.

Okay. I am not going to argue this with you. Been there, done that and not doing it again. It depends on the Christian and the beliefs of his denomination and Summer didnt say no one would ever be separated from someone in hell.BTW, Purgatory is temporary. Have a nice night.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2017 10:19PM by bona dea.

Why do you think that someone that accepts what you say, and agrees with it is arguing with you?

Yes, it depends on the Christian beliefs, and as you pointed out, the liberal churches believe in a different standard for who goes to hell, but they still believe in a hell that can separate the families.

I am AGREEING WITH YOU. Geez/

Because your tone, as usual is argumentative and nit picking

I was nitpicking in AGREEING with you?

Whatever. As far as I can see, I agreed with you and pointed out how that supported what I said, and that seems to bother you.

That's something I still believe - that families are somehow interconnected in the eternities.

That was a special message from your mother, Summer.

I had signs from each of my parents (and step-parents,) after they died that they'd crossed over. Not that I'd have needed a sign. I believed that anyway.

Didn't know that JW don't believe that. But they also have the distinction of being a cult, not unlike LDS.

Many Christians I've known don't believe in forever families, on other hand, while they do believe in life after death. Since it's said in scripture that no one will be given in marriage in heaven. And that there'll neither be male or female.

I have a hard time picturing a unisex heaven. I still believe our spirits will retain their feminine and/or masculine attributes - but who really knows?

I've heard of that unisex heaven before. I'm not sure it is a common belief. I also think that if you take away the sex of the person, then the person is not the same person, thus the person that one is now, would never exist in heaven.

Regarding heaven/purgatory/hell -- there is official dogma, and then there is what everyday Catholics and mainstream Protestants actually believe. The two are not necessarily the same. I never met a Catholic who doubted for a second that they would be reunited with their loved ones in the afterlife. Ditto for the mainstream Protestants.

Ah, the old Christians may not actually believe what their Christian church teaches.

To me, it is not a defense that falters those Christians.

To add, I posted a link to a poll that show that the majority of Christians (not talking about churches) believe in Hell.

Read what I said again.

"I never met a Catholic who doubted for a second that they would be reunited with their loved ones in the afterlife. Ditto for the mainstream Protestants."

You may have heard of North Korea, but it doesn't mean you (or anyone you know) are going there. Personally, I think that any sort of hell (or separation from God) is self-imposed.

And of the MILLIONS of Catholics and "mainstream" protestants have you met?

I know lots of Christian parents that have told their kids that if the kid kept behaving the way they were, they would not get into heaven and be with the family. That said, I would NEVER,EVER, try to imply that this experience was representative of Christianity.

You? Are you trying to say that your experience is representative of Christianity?

Should have read "How many Catholics... "

Bang, I grew up Catholic and have lots of Catholic family members. Yes, I know it well. I grew up in the culture. And as Catholics believe, once you are a part of the culture, you will always be family. I never once met a practicing Catholic who minded in the least that I left the church.

I also have Protestant family members and lots of Protestant friends. Not a one of them would ever dream of threatening their children in the manner that you describe. Maybe you hang out with a different kind of people.

https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-hell-there-is

Then how does the hell that the Catholic Church claim does exist work?

If there is one sinner in the family does the full family go to hell or do sinners get a free pass to heaven just because they are Catholic and the Catholic hell is never used?

If sinners go to hell, as the Catholic Church preaches )according to catholic.com), and the faithful goes to heaven, as the Catholic Church preaches (according to catholic.com) and half the family is sinners that go to hell, the other have are faithful and go to heaven, how are they together?

Catholic.com is consistent with what Catholics tell me about heaven, hell, and purgatory. Along with other sources:



Or are you saying that catholic.com is wrong about catholic teachings? Or are you saying you are claiming to be a Catholic without actually believing what the Catholic church teaches?

Bang, once again, I WAS RAISED IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. My mom was Catholic, her mom and dad were Catholics, all of my aunts, uncles, and cousins on my mother's side were and are Catholics. Many of my closest friends growing up were Catholic. Unless you were raised Catholic, or converted, I DO know it better than you do.

As I have explained to you, there is the "official" Catholic dogma and policy, which has been on the books often for hundreds and hundreds of years, and then there is what Catholics actually believe and practice in their day to day lives.

And simply put, hell is not something that your average Catholic worries about AT ALL. As far as your average Catholic is concerned, they are going to Heaven to be with their family. Period. They take great comfort in that belief. They do not worry about being separated from their families in the afterlife, *ever*.

When I told my mom that I was leaving the Catholic church, she was not worried in the slightest that I would be separated from her in the eternities.

If you've ever been to a Catholic funeral (I've been to many, even recently,) you would see this belief in action even among the priests. Your loved one is in heaven. S/he is close to God. You will see him or her again one day. Come and take communion with us to symbolize that belief.

For Protestants in the moderate-to-liberal end of the spectrum, the belief is pretty much the same. Going to hell is not a worry to them any more than it is to their Catholic "cousins." I had a Protestant father, grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins on my father's side. I've attended many, many Protestant services. Have you?

I get it, you claim to be Catholic but don't really believe in Catholicism, Trust me, I've got it. I personally would not be a part of a religion where I did not believe its teachings, but that is just my ethical standards.

Yes, I get it, you were raised Catholic and that's that, no further thinking on the subject of it's teachings is necessary, I get it, you'll just believe what you want anyway.


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/10/most-americans-believe-in-heaven-and-hell/

Despite what you say, in the USA, 63% of Catholics believe in hell.

BTW, I attended the funeral of a person that was Catholic, but committed suicide, the his Catholic priest did not preside over any of the funeral, there was no Catholic official claiming he was in heaven. Another member of his family did get all the Catholic trappings.

Christians in the moderate-to-liberal end of the spectrum approach their religion in a different way than Mormons do. They are not as literal. This doesn't make them wrong.

Nobody said they were "wrong". I am just not impressed in people that claim they believe in a church then do not actually believe what the church teaches. That is not saying they are "wrong"

All religions have some belief in their teachings about what happens when you die. Most have a type of heaven,paradise, or eternal rest, reincarnation, hell, other types of punishment, and glory, etc.

I have based my belief in an afterlife on my own experiences which lead me to the conclusion that the human psyche/soul/spirit continues on in some form, and sometimes can relay words, move objects, and present in human form.

I have no experience that leads me to think that the after life is organized in religions of some sort. Just the opposite.

The belief systems are not factual. Just because someone believes something does not mean it is going to happen and you must live your life in some manner to suit some set of rules.

Is it bad that i dont want to reunite with anybody? I barely get along with anybody in this life.

I know lots of people, myself included, that do not want to be united with their family in THIS life, much less the next!

Ok i dont want to feel guilty about that. Being around people that judged me in life and suppressed me is not my idea of an awesome time. I feel once you reach a certain age you should go your own way from the family and even religion for that matter.

I would assume that if there is a heaven that we would be free to associate with those we want to see.

If some of them believe in Hell, they don't think it has anything to do with normal people they know or care about.

Agreed. They do not want to think the people they know are evil people deserving of hell.

From the evidence I have seen, most of those that believe in hell believe it is the place where evil people go, but they also believe that non of their family and and friends are not evil and will go to heaven.

This is the reason I see as to why so many believe that their families will not be separated because one or more is sent to hell while the the rest go to heaven. Not because Christianity guarantees that their family will not be separated, but because they will all qualify.

They don't think it's their job to be God and judge if someone is not going to Heaven.

Irrelevant to the point I made.

If they truly believed that it was not their place to judge, thy would not be making the judgment that hell has nothing to do with the people they know, or that they are normal.

Don't worry, Bang.

There is always the Get Out of Jail Free phrase:
"God will sort it all out later!"

I know. Mormons neither have the corner on the market of eternal families, nor were they the first ones to come up with it. The temple part of it was born out of JS's need for an excuse not to keep his pecker in his pants.

If there's an afterlife, we're all the family of God and will be together as such. Not off on our own planets popping out babies and going planet tripping to see our mortal children and parents who we are supposedly sealed to. It's all so ridiculous.

Just to let you all know neither Mormons or Christians have a corner on the market on 'eternal families'. I suspect JS got this idea from both Christians and psychics.

However, the psychic, medium, channel communities basically talk 'soul groups'. A 'soul group' is loosely defined as your immediate family and 'some' relatives and close friends or business associates.

A 'soul group' does change a little over time but 'incarnates together' and subsequently ends up in the 'between life' as a group.

This 'soul group' studies past incarnation experiences and what they learned and plan for future incarnations and establish experience/learning goals.