Can a case be made for sticking with the morg as an insurance policy in case it is true?
One can be a closet nonbeliever and do the minimum.
It's not a bad way to live, and offers one a social circle.

What if large alien robot spiders with fricken laser beams attached to their heads come out of your ass ?

"Contingency plans are important, and the best ones are prompted by beer and feature beer, and beer-powered lasers."
- - Judic West, sober

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Contingency plans are important, and the best
> ones are prompted by beer and feature beer, and
> beer-powered lasers."
> - - Judic West, sober


There was actually a time when Judic was SOBER?

What if Roses grew out of my ass, followed by pigs wearing diamond chokers and singing "Happy Happy Birthday Baby", and they were all shot down by the Insane Clown Possee? What then?

I'd get you more tequila?

elderolddog Wrote:
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> I'd get you more tequila?


and a filet mignon rare please.

Hahaha that would scare the sh#t out of me, literally.

I didn't leave until I'd studied enough evidence to realize 100% that it simply wasn't true. Now I see that it's such an obvious scam that I don't understand how I ever even considered it to be possibly true.

Once I realized that there was no way for it to be true, I lost all fear that it could be. That's when it was time to leave for good.

Yeah, this.

Greyfort Wrote:
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> I didn't leave until I'd studied enough evidence
> to realize 100% that it simply wasn't true. Now I
> see that it's such an obvious scam that I don't
> understand how I ever even considered it to be
> possibly true.
>
> Once I realized that there was no way for it to be
> true, I lost all fear that it could be. That's
> when it was time to leave for good.

EXXXXACTLY.....

IF (and that is a big IF) there is an afterlife and a judgement day, the LAST place I want to be is up there explaining how I believed a 30 plus year old liar was using his church as leverage to sleep with every 14 year old girl and any woman he could get his hands on. Do you really want to defend Joe ?

If it were all true, that would be very depressing. After two hundred years of possessing the keys of the Holy Priesthood, exclusive access to the Holy Spirit, guidance of seers, revelators, and prophets - and Utah is the result?

In contrast, see what the Swiss accomplished in the same time period, turning one of the poorest countries in Europe to a model of equality, tolerance, efficiency, and culture.

There are many other groups, faiths, societies that do more, do it better, and extract a lot less pain than does LDS Corp. Why live a lie just to have pals?

I think the comparison of Switzerland to Utah and the church is proof that gossiping has consequences.

MarkJ Wrote:
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> In contrast, see what the Swiss accomplished in
> the same time period, turning one of the poorest
> countries in Europe to a model of equality,
> tolerance, efficiency, and culture.

You can't be serious. Switzerland a model of equality and tolerance? Their women couldn't vote until 1971 and it is still a lot more homophobic than neighbouring countries.

I reckon you were thinking of Sweden, or Denmark, or Norway or Finland. These were impoverished backwaters like Russia in the early 1800s and see how far they have come.

So with those countries, your point stands.

If Jesus is a loving Savior, I have to think that if it were all true, yet we had left, he would welcome us back not condemn us to eternal damnation

If jesus did secret handshakes then that would truly amaze me.

By that logic, just join every effin church you can find.

Spread your bets, but personally I think it's a waste of energy you could put to better uses.

When will you learn that living a lie isn't worth it?

Hitting the SP in the face with a cream pie, that would be worth it.

You are way to easy on them with the cream pie. But babylon is right that even though your life may suck it will be ten times worse living a lie in fantasy land. And you will end up with having to see a real counselor even longer at the end of it all, that lives in reality and you may bump into the badass while i am getting counseling. The journey back to the real world is a hard road make no mistake about it.

I just figure that wherever I end up, if anywhere, then at least I'll get there honestly. I just live my life being my genuine, true self. It's honest.

Trying to follow a religion that I don't believe in, just in case, would not be honest. God supposedly doesn't like liars very much.

Thats kind of what i said if god really knows me then he knows i cant pull a fast one on him. I faked myself as i sat in church so i just couldnt do it anymore and i think he would respect that.

Think of the numbers of people in the world. How many of them were born into the morg?

Why would anyone assume that only a small minority of TBM mormons would be in the one true church when everyone else on earth would be wrong who thought they had the truth?

Mormonism isn't such a good life if you really think about it.

It isnt but it is perhaps the only life they know.

This line of thinking is exactly where my bored brain would go during sacrament meeting. God is no respecter of persons right? How does that stack up with Mormons being chosen and special? And if the Mormon church is so special, why doesn't it seem...I don't know...SPECIAL? If it's so darn important and true,God must hate the Chinese. One billion people not even hearing about his ONE true church. Never mind all the buckets of people from the past that never heard of Mormonism or any thing like it.

... at getting in our heads, and staying there, even when we become non-believers.

If Mormonism could be true, that ANY religion could be true. But if the God of the Universe created Mormonism, then I'd rather spend eternity in "outer darkness."

Yes their brainwashing is so well done that you battle your own mind even after physically leaving.

I'd rather my kids took my advice because they trusted it and loved me rather than blind obedience directed by fear of punishment for not following my advice. If there is a god, I do not believe the mormon church is the way to get nearer to Him as I assume he would prefer love and trust to blind obedience fueled by fear of some future calamity.

The church maintains it's membership by the activation of the primal fear of reprisals, be that social sanctions or 'fire insurance' as they talk about. Fear of losing something is a major impulse humans have and sales people use it to their advantage: the church does the same.

Doctrinaly, the 'new and everlasting covenant' is all about polygamy and the temple, and we know 'eternal marriage' was made up to cover up joey's adultery, we also know now that the temple is all about getting members to pay their tithing. We can safely discard everything to do with the temple for those reasons alone, never mind any other reasons.

The rest of the 'unique' doctrine about choosing to take a body on earth, choosing our trials, (pre-existence obviously to enable this choosing) and different heavens after this earthly existence have been written about before Joey boy was born. Emmanuel Swedenborg wrote about similar things and the shakers picked up his writings and took them to america with them. Before swedenburg's time there was jacob boehme who also wrote about similar things and was called a heretic by the catholic church and told to stop writing about his visions.

If you decide to research swedenburg and boehme for yourself you may find it easier to see the 'church' for what it is - a scam.

The contemporary leaders have said you must obey them even if they are wrong as you will be blessed for your obedience, but this depends on you not engaging your god-given brain. Use your brain for what it was intended - questioning, researching and formulating new ideas for future behaviour with plenty reflection thrown into the mix to ensure you are still moving forward instead of being trapped by fear in a mindless personality cult.

The day I realised that I did not want what the mormon church had sold me (eternity with my birth family & relatives) was the day I also realised that I was willing to give an account on judgement day of why I did not raise my children in the 'church', exposing them to the endless cognitive dissonance and possibly triggering mental illness in them.

The cons of following the mormons outweighs any positives you think you can find.

If you are a believer in god, then remember the parable of the servants and the talents. The one who hid his talent away out of fear of losing it was punished by his master upon his return and the talent he hid away to 'protect' was taken from him and given to someone else. Following a religion out of fear is exactly the same as being the fearful servant who hides his money to 'keep it safe', just like mormons keeping their testimonies 'safe' by hiding away from everything outside the church out of fear of losing it and their 'salvation'.

It'd be easier if ghawd didn't always need money. ALWAYS!

Creator of all just can't handle his money. Just can't get a budget going.

Again...WHAT IS ACTUALLY TRUE? Please tell us - which part?
Monson is a True Prophet? Is BOM historical of actual events?
Dead dunking? That is what amazes me. The church is true...ok..can you be more specific so I can verify? Nope :)
the Mormon fraud is no more real than Gandalf the grey

I say that as well which part is true? There are so many added sections over the years as they go. Polygamy, polyandry, marrying underage women, the added books, secret handshakes, death oaths, people stripping down naked in temples, dead dunking, dead sealing, i could go on and on. It is so messy.

If there is a god, he/she/it certainly wouldn’t send all of his/her/its children to world where they had to find and follow one “truth” (among countless truth claims) and anyone who failed would forever be cut off from his/her/its presence.

It’s not only completely illogical, it’s infinitely immortal.

an insurance policy in case it is true?

Honestly, present me with one shred of credible evidence that it is and I will consider it. Until then I will be content with Ian Stevenson.

Ghost of Hales Wrote:
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> It's not a bad way to live, and offers one a
> social circle.

Social circle? You call a dozen dysfunctional families, descended from inbred polygamists, getting by on credit and Prozac to keep up with Jorgensens 'a social circle'?

Not a bad way to live? You call getting up at 5 am for mythology study, never having a Sunday off, not seeing your own kids or siblings grow up because you're always in different meetings, and preaching to normal people that they will burn in hell for drinking their Earl Grey and Rose Petals tea, 'not a bad way to live'?

It isnt sorry. Cult rituals and marrying underage women. That alone makes it not true. And a plagerized book. But if you want to live in la la land for a fake social circle go for it.

What if Catholicism is true, or Evangelicalism or Southern Baptisism or Scientologyism is true? Or maybe the Egyptians had it right? If you really want an After-life Insurance Policy that is the Umbrella for everything, you better get busy. There is a lot of stuff to believe and a lot of worshipping to be done if. you are going to cover all your bases.

Seriously. When you have to resort to a phrase like, "What if it's all true, the game is already over."

My insurance policy is to engage in just enough minor sin to make sure I end up with Lucifer cause he's got it going on. Running circles around big El. :)

All churches are convinced they're the only true church. Even tho, Mormons KNOW they're the only true church, can you really say it without trying every single religion? No, you can't.

Outer darkness here I come. . . .

I'm hedging my "bets" that it isn't true based on sound judgment.

Who wants to live a lie?

What kind of social circle is it that practices rituals in the name of God to baptize dead people and other weird rituals that have changed over the years to conform with the times?

Or believes in plural marriage, including to other men's wives in heaven if your name is Joseph Smith, Jr?

Who wants to belong to a social circle who believes in blood oaths, & mythological folklore? Who believes without questioning its veracity? Who wants to belong to a social circle that doesn't allow questioning or intellectualism, or for women to stand on their own two feet making their way in the world with or without a husband?

Who needs or wants to be discriminated because they're feminist, gay, non-conforming, or intellectual?

What kind of social circle is that? It isn't one I wish to be associated with. It's discriminatory on its face and outright bigoted..

What if it's "true?" What part of that do you want to be true?

If Joseph was nothing more than a lying scumbag, are you open to the possibility that he was a charlatan? A con artist operating a pious fraud? That he made a living conning those who trusted he was a man of God, when he was nothing more than a false prophet warned of in scripture?

The more you know, the more you realize that he isn't what or who he professed to be.

"Seek and ye shall find. Ask and it shall be given unto you." The very words he extracted from scripture to swindle millions have come back to bite him in the behind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2017 02:28PM by Amyjo.

Look at every single leaked video from top Mormon leadership. Does it look spiritual by any means? Or does it resemble a businessmen meeting with goofy ideas mingled with sophomoric humor?

Don't like or trust leaked videos? Fine. I challenge believers to watch church sponsored ones. Check out how the Q15 introduce their missionary guide training program (1988). They're so delighted and enthusiastic to introduce it to a new breed of missionaries. They're so excited not because it was revealed by angels or divine inspiration; no way! They're happy because it's the culmination of research and development (7 years)and cost a ton of money was spent to GROW the church.

It's simply not true!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2017 03:04PM by messygoop.

I'd still oppose it, as it punishes personality and creative thinking. If true, it's a bad truth. Still something to avoid.

Good call.

I lived mormonism. I can't imagine going on for eternities dressed in a temple robe and green apron with a veil over my face having a million spirit babies and having to spend eternity with my sister.

I hated the temple. Is that what heaven will be like?

I actually am so much more at peace with whatever is to come after I die than I was as a mormon.

I never got to play dress up in robes but it sounds kind of fun haha jk.

You've described my brother's testimony and my sister in law's testimony and maybe half the active Mormon's testimonies out there. They entertain some possibility that it's real and, as Utah Mormons, they find it to be very advantageous for their family and social lives.

Somebody is in the deepest kind pf shit!!!

Are you really the Ghost of Hales? You sound more like the Ghost of Pascal.

Read up on Pascal's Wager. That should be food for thought.

There are good reasons that people say that Pascal's Wager is a sucker's bet.

It is NOT true. So, no worries mate.

HH =)

It's not true, so why bother even wasting energy by pretending.

I would do everything in my power to rate Outer Darkness so as to get as far away from the Saints as possible.

I'll bet Pascal would have been a piss-poor gambler in any modern day casino where the odds always favor the house.

Ghost of Hales Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It's not a bad way to live, and offers one a
> social circle.


Mormons don't have the corner market on living a good way or being the only social circle one can have.

So I don't get that part of your comment.
I have both of the above, and I am not Mormon.

but Mormonism not being a fraudulent made up religion isn't one of them.

I heard that mormonism was number 2 in the most obvious fraud religions. Scientology was number 1. Out of all religions mormonism or lds was number 2, just let that sink in in how all of us were suckered by it.

You mean if it's literally true that Joe Smith saw two shining beings that never identified themselves and he just assumed they were good and special and he should blindly do whatever they say?

You mean if it's literally that he was led by an alleged "angel" to a buried box with a book in it he couldn't read? Then when he stared at a rock in his hat he received a correct translation of a language no one to this day knows?

If you enter the universe of the Bible and Judeo-Christian beliefs and accept all of them, then you accept all of Joe's claims as "true", he still comes up way short. The whole story plays out as demonic and deceptive by biblical standards. The "spirits" Joe interacted don't pass the tests.

This is why most people in Smith's time rejected his claims so swiftly and only a small number of gullible folks followed him.

What if it's all true? If it's all true then it's from the devil.

I'm not arguing that the Bible is true. I'm pointing out that even if it were true, it goesn't support Mormonism.

Well some temples do have a upside down pentagram on them. And everybody should know that is not a christian symbol, well besides mormons aparrently.

If it's all true it's STILL a crock of finest bull muffins way to live and treat people so if it's all true I'm with the Devil since he supposedly opposed the whole racist misogynistic money con in the first place.

Oh, but it is true...



...truly bullshit!!!

Ghost of Hales Wrote:
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> One can be a closet nonbeliever and do the minimum.



...for the personal gain of comfort from a social circle which extracts 10% of your gross, access to the true authenticity of that of yourself and that of your family, and the true agency of all affected by your lone decision.. People who are ordered to live a certain way can and will rebel against false teachings and doctrines.

When they figure out that you were a liar, a rube, or both, and did so at their expense for the benefit of your own comfort, you likely will come to understand the "true" price for which you so lightly sell your integrity.

Very, very short-term thinking.

Inauthentic, deceitful, liar. These things are not considered to be either healthy, or "good."

Even the title of your post was doublespeak in the context of your post. If you're willing to "do the minimum," you can't possibly believe that "the minimum" could "save" you, even were "it all true."

Flying butt monkey jokes aside, the church cannot possibly be true according to the evidence. It's not up against "anti Mormons". It's up against the entire scientific world. It's also up against itself. Look at all the "anti-Mormon" lies printed in the BoM and placed on LDS.org.

This thought control cult is using you. They don't love you or respect you because you don't respect yourself enough to not wallow in the mud with them. Is that the social circle you want?

This is what it's like to be an abused wife: "Maybe I'm better off with him". What's an abuser know about love?