I wanted to share one of my last temple interview experiences before I left the church. A couple of things. I was an active member and believing member. Additionally, I was living the gospel principles and I wasn't surfing the "new" internet for Mormonism.

So my wife and I went to the stake center to renew our temple recommends. We were both meeting with the 2nd counselor of the SP. She went first and came out within 10 minutes. She was smiling and I knew that she had her TR. This was pretty routine.

So it was my turn. I noticed that he was asking me more follow up questions than usual. He began asking me more probing questions about my personal study habits of the gospel. This was pretty straight forward stuff because I would actually read scripture while I waited for the church computer would warm up. I was the ward clerk and I was going over 2-3 times per week to do church business.

When we got to the part of how I treated my wife, he started to act peculiar. He lifted up his reading glasses and cocked his head. It startled me and I may have hesitated when he asked if I fought with her. I adamantly denied, but he had other ideas. He told me that I was lying. He went on to say that the Spirit had manifested that I was not in harmony with my spouse. He said that until I started to treat my wife with respect then I was unworthy. I was dumbfounded. He told me to go home and talk to my wife. I was to reschedule with the executive secretary in two weeks if I was truly repentant.

Of course this led to my being wrongfully agitated with my wife. We had an uncomfortable drive home. Instead of questioning the asshat PH leader, I believed that my wife confessed that we fought long and hard. So we had an unnecessary argument that lead to greater disharmony. The following Sunday, I cornered the other SP counselor and walked out with my very last TR.

Spiritual discernment? Utter bullshit!

I agree with you whole heartedly on this one! My very last interview with my Bishop was something that led me to ultimately resign.

My now ex-wife and I had been fighting for years, mostly because she has Narcissistic personality disorder and BPD. So, needless to say, she is very charming to other people, even nice to them, but behind closed doors, she is a monster. The Bishop at the time was one of her friend's husband. Total asshat of a man. Completely stuck on himself, egotistical, etc.

My ex told the Bishop that I was emotionally abusive, which was a huge lie. She told the Bishop I was abusing her and she told several members of the ward too. I went into the bishop, still as a TBM, thinking he would be able to see the truth if I talked to him and the 'spirit' would testify to him that I was not what she said I was. 2 minutes into the discussion, I knew this guy was full of shit and a stalk of celery had more 'inspiration' then this guy did. He didn't believe a word I said and tried to counsel me and copped out at the end claiming he was a professional counselor. I was already on the fence about leaving and this was a huge step in the direction of resignation. Inspired? Bullshit. This guy couldn't tell the difference between simple truth and my ex's made up lies. That should be "Inspiration 101".

My sister has the same disorders as your ex. It's so exasperating when she melts down, screaming and slamming doors, because she didn't get her way on some minor issue. She gets particularly angry when we don't share our personal financial info with her. The exasperating thing is she can totally convince other people she is sweet, wonderful, wronged, and the rest of our family are first class heels. To add fuel to the flame she goes on Facebook and trashes our whole family and gets loads of sympathy. I just wish I could video one of her tirades and post THAT on Facebook.

Just wanted to let you know I feel your pain.

I got into the SLC temple (in 1980) without a temple recommend, and having already left the church for 3 months. It was a piece of cake.

My brother (still TBM, even now) was getting married in the SLC Temple. I wanted to be at his wedding, even though I didn't really want to go to the temple. I *certainly* didn't want to go sit through a TR interview, having already left the church both physically and mentally. So I figured I'd just go, and see if I could BS my way in. If so, great. If not, no big deal -- I'd go to the reception after.

So I packed up my last usable pair of garmies, and drove to SLC. Got dressed up in garmies and a suit, and met up with my brother and step-father at the temple, along with the bishop of my childhood ward, and my uncle (then the official church spokesperson, not a GA but still a "bigwig" and well-known).

We head inside, and the supposed-to-have-discernment temple worker asks for my recommend. I make a show of looking for it in my wallet, and then act it up saying I can't find it, must have left it at home!

Now, none of the people I was with knew I was out, though my brother suspected I had quit going to church "regularly." I was about 4 months back from my "honorable" 2-year mission.

So these 4 people all tell the temple worker that I'm a newly-returned, honorably-served missionary, what a wonderful, faithful, honest guy I am, and that there's no need to call anybody or check anything -- of course I have a TR. My former bishop tells the guy I was president of every Aaronic quorum, and such a great youth. My church-spokesman-uncle (whom I hadn't seen in 5 years) vouches for me despite knowing nothing about me other than I'd just come back from my mission.

The temple worker, overwhelmed by the TR-toting testimonies, passes me in. No, I didn't actually have a TR. Yes, I'd lied my ass off to him. No, he didn't have any "discernment."

Oh, and that really did serve as 'confirmation' to me that the church was BS, and that nobody in it had any magical 'discernment.' How ironic :)

Technically, if you were four months back from an honorable mission, you would have been issued a recommend by your MP.

If that was the case, then I never would have been issued a TR upon leaving my mission. I was a "problem elder" because I didn't kiss the ground that my MP walked on. I was unworthy in his eyes over not following his silly edicts~ I refused to buy and eat Cracked Wheat for breakfast. That made me disobedient. If it was up to him, about half of us returning home after serving two years would never have entered the temple again.

My SP was more reasonable, but you had to "be nice" when you were officially released.

Spiritual discernment is a joke for any religion. Three is none.


All a person has is being able to judge someone within 5 minutes to determine their intentions and mannerism. Then make adjustments the next time you interact.


A gut feeling something is wrong is 50/50.

Lied through my teeth at my last TR interview so I could attend
my brother's wedding. I had been an "off-the-radar" anti-Mormon
spreading forbidden facts and reason to many. I had actually
helped a couple of Mormons in their conversion process to exmo.

So in the temple I get to shake hands with a GA. If ANYONE
should have had the super-mojo discernment, you'd think it would
be a GA right there in the temple. But, of course, I was
totally accepted.

But, speaking of "the power of discernment" . . .

http://www.utlm.org/images/newsletters/115/115cover_hofmannchurchleaders.gif

I remember wondering the very same thing: how could those very important bigwigs not have KNOWN that this guy was conning them? What do I not understand about "discernment?"

Of course, I had already proven to myself at the local level that discernment was not operational (having lied to get a TR for my RM son's temple wedding). But I was shocked that these super-important GA types didn't seem to have a clue, either.

HAHAHAHAHA! I like the pic of that big ol' crook who sold tscc fake documents! Yeah...discernment!

This isn’t about descernment. This was about messing with your marriage. I am guessing that he was jealous of you because of your wife and wanted to create problems for you. Maybe he didn't think you deserved your wife.

You are looking at this from a "Mormon” perspective. But this was really just pathological behavior that he could get away with because you had agreed to participate in this whole determination of your "worthiness.”

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife would be my best guess as toward what was really going on.

nevermojohn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This isn’t about descernment. This was about
> messing with your marriage.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That is all I dealt with after I found out my ex is gay, but the experience I've told before has a little bit added now. My ex was executive secretary and he was "invited" to go to the bishopric night at the temple. I refused to go. He was cheating with men, but he went. He is still angry at me about it some 20+ years later and we were discussing it just recently. He said that he had to make up excuses for me not going every time he went like "she has a headache," or something.

The bishop told me at that time that my ex would be one of the next 2 bishops.

Lots of discernment there. The bishop and his wife just adored my ex and I know it shook them to their core when he came out as gay.

I still have never got a real answer from a mormon on what the hell the mormon gospel actually is, in detail and that has pissed me off. They don't even know their own religion they just do what they are told like underlings. I still remember my last interviews i could never get passed the question of do you believe that the 15 men are really prophet, seers, and revelators? Of course i said no my discernment is pretty insane i know d@mn well they aren't prophets, i just laughed in my head thinking holland as a prophet. I never could pass the masturbating question, can anybody pass that question honestly i didn't think so.

Badassadam1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...i could never get passed the
> question of do you believe that the 15 men are
> really prophet, seers, and revelators? Of course
> i said no...

In hindsight, what you *should* have said:

"You should already know the answer to that question if you have the power of discernment. In fact, why are you asking me any questions at all -- shouldn't you already know the answers?"

:)

This was a shelf-breaker for me. I was on my out mentally and emotionally but still active when I went for my TR interview. The bishop claimed "discernment," but then out his mouth came ridiculous gossip from my TBM neighbor who loved to peek through her blinds to see what was going on at my place.

I pushed back, and he finally admitted he had an informant, but had "prayed about it for confirmation," which he supposedly received. I explained about my late-night work/study campus job, and how a co-worker had given me a ride when my car was broken. That's all it was. Bishop told me to drop out of college, stay home, and make quilts to sell so I could have something to show for my efforts -- and to never be alone with a man, even in a car. He threatened disciplinary action if I didn't do everything he ordered.

I realized that the power of discernment was completely fake and decided to drop out of church instead of university. Lost the TR, got my degree instead.