I had hopes it might go well. First minute it did and then went down hill and last 5 minutes a disaster.

This is High Priest Council Meeting in an Edmonton Ward. Enough said. I took notes to confirm what was said and written but at some points wanted to shot myself in the head as I could see what was happening.

Goal: Each HP group in Stake is going to mentor the Elders. Not missionaries. Stake Directive.
1. Help the Elders to accomplish their home teaching
2. Have the Elders keep their coveants
3. Help the Elders to rise up and be better Priesthood holders. Stake Directive

The above was put on the white board as we sat in a TIGHT circle. We were told it had to be a tight circle. Can you believe it? We had to pull our chairs tight in a circle.

HP group leader said he was given the names of Elders and the Elders and their inactive families. He said they do between 10 % to 30% HT each month. I thought that was good. He said he felt the reason members are not active is due to APATHY. That is written on white board. He said they HAVE FOUND OTHER THINGS TO DO OTHER THAN GO TO CHURCH. That was written on board.
He said we must teach them and show them HOW MUCH HF LOVES THEM. That was written on board.

He said everyone in the HP group is to read ALMA 13 this week to learn their responsibility as HP. That was written on the board.

So by this point this has not been a council discussion but a mandate in my book. This violates any thing I know about open group discussions. Then he opens it to group to share ideas.

Here are some ideas shared:

WE NEED TO BEFRIEND THE INACTIVE FAMILIES AND ELDERS. How many times in my life time have I heard this? How often has it worked.

INVITE LESS ACTIVES INTO OUR HOMES (HP that is) and have missionaries there. How many times have I heard that in my life time? How often has that worked?

BECOME THEIR FRIEND. How many times have I heard this before? How is that working.

REMIND THE MEN OF THEIR PRIESTHOOD RESPONSIBILITY. So lets use the old guilt trick. How is that working in the Church?

HAVE EACH HIGH PRIEST BE ASSIGNED ONE OR TWO ELDERS TO MENTOR. Time commitment. That is a big big problem with these Temple Worker HP.

PAIR UP HP WITH ELDERS ACTIVE OR INACTIVE FOR HT. Stress anyone

At this point I tuned out. Looking for my gun to put myself out of my misery listening to this. But quickly I came back to life when they started to name names of inactives and why and when they stopped coming. GOSSIP WORKS EVERY TIME TO BRING CHURCH MEMBERS TOGETHER. That added energy to discussion. Now everyone started to talk about everyone and tried to out do the last person they gossiped about. it was very sick and disgusting in my books. Too bad the people were not their to defend themselves.I know very few people they talked about but I did not want the arrows pointed at me if I said this was not right to do this.

We ended with HP group leader asking what we should do now. And the answer was to spend time to get to know the Elders.

I missed a lot here but you get the idea. All I could see was men spending more time spent away from home dealing with people who have apathy problems!!!!!!!! If you are not on board with this you are letting HF down and not fulfilling your role as a HP. WHAT KIND OF HP ARE YOU. I think we did the Nazi salute on the way out!!!!

How did your councils go?

As for me I told the HP group leader on the way out that I will not be attending much as I have health problems and doctor has ordered me to continue to train and run and when I stop he says he will be concerned with my health. I have been fighting cancer and we are out of options. No more radiation, no chemo. Maybe surgery. (I have had 12 so far) So I do what I enjoy Sunday mornings. I run with about 80 other runners and train with them. It helps me cope with the passing of my wife 16 months ago.

All the HP group leader said was "he had or has cancer." He basically was saying to me "its not important to you to do this as attending Church meetings." This guy is going to show lots of empathy for the inactives!!!

OMG! What a sh*tshow, what a cult.

And with those continued beatings, has the moral yet improved?

"BECOME THEIR FRIEND. How many times have I heard this before? How is that working."


How do you make someone "become your friend"? These folks are already leery of the church. Some phony showing up on their doorstep is just going to push them away. If people want new friends, they will find new friends. Not by strangers showing up at their home.

Wow... Thanks for reporting this. I will archive it. This, in my opinion, will drive more people to resign from the corporation. Being an introvert, that last thing I would like to do is participate in such activity. If others are being gossiped about (if that is somehow grammatically correct), then it is clear I would be the center of future gossip when inactive. Who wants to be subjected to that? In all sincerity, I hope this become a church wide program. More people will become free of Mormonism.

Deck chairs
Titanic

SSDD

Lipstick
Pig

Beatrice and Benedict
Much ado about Nothing

Pick your metaphor - all of the above are applicable

...like work parties. Helping people move. Covering shifts at the cannery or welfare store. Is there an LDS farm near you, to go out and pick apples or something? Let's not overlook cleaning the toilets!

According to the directives posted on LDS.org, individual names of members were NOT to be mentioned during the group discussions. Big fail there!

Was the RS group discussion such a disaster, also?

Thank you for your reports, SE P. I look forward to them. It is very evident that the church leaders are in a rut when it comes to thinking and problem solving. The result of the group-think (or poorly implemented one) mirrors the thinking of the Q 12.

How do they know they know why the Elders have apathy and that is the underlying problem?

What do the adult elders think about being babysat by old men?

How did the HP group leader in my ward solve his HT shortcomings and failures?

He took all the names of every person assigned to them that:

-didn't want a HT
-no longer attended church
-could not be located

The instructions read. "Dear Clerk, Please use your computer to reassign these people to the Elders. We are not responsible for them. Bishop _______ has approved this action."

The HP group leader proudly walked up to the ward clerk's office and slid the paper under the door without knocking. By the time I opened the office door, he was scurrying down the hall to turn the corner.

I went next door and showed the note to the bishop. He chuckled and told me (I was the ward clerk) not to change a thing. He kept the note, then drove over after church to the HP group leader's home for a chat. At the time, the HP had 80% HT rate while the Elders had around 40% HT rate.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2018 02:15AM by messygoop.

Is this TSSC way of saying, we are going to make your future inactivity as messy, uncomfortable and life-destroying as possible? So don't even think about leaving!

Really tho, the suggestions from this HP group are just rehashes of what we as high priests were supposed to have been doing for the last 50 years, which I have experienced in several wards. It's just glorified, delegated PPI's, and fellowshipping, and more parties. Fertile ground for nurturing new friendships. (sarc)

SEcular Priest, I am saddened to hear of your difficulties and hard times. My best wishes are on the way, somehow.

Thanks for your report. TSCC somehow manages to be dammier and cultier all the time.

I knew it! I knew it wouldn't be a "discussion group" at all!

My inactive friend (a wealthy single woman) called me this afternoon (Sunday) very confused. She had not had any VT's or HT's for many years, yet, today, out of the blue, the RS president dropped by, and is her new Visiting Teacher. The VT companion is an old childhood friend of ours, whom we haven't seen socially for 30 years.

My friend and I thought it strange that this same childhood friend called me today, and asked me to lunch--after 30 years of not being in my life at all. I resigned several years ago.

I suspect that the Women's Mormon "council meeting" was on the same subject. My friend and I were right to be suspicious!

The Mormon cult thinks everyone else is as stupid and gullible as they are.

Underestimating and disrespecting others makes Mormons very unpopular.

These changes in the church format are just upping the recruiting efforts. It's the same old same old, only MORE of it.

Yeah, has that worked? Thanks for the illuminating report, SEcular Priest. This information is useful in protecting our family and friends from even more nasty gossip and group pressure.

I didn't think it was possible to hate the cult more, but I do.

Soooooo.....Are you going to follow the directives?????

......so glad I resigned.......

You can say that again. Ever since my wife and I resigned, no HT, no missionaries, no bishop, nothing Mormon unless I visit relatives and the church isn’t a topic they bring up.

The church is worried about losing the Millennials. Well, the church should be worried. But this is not the way to keep them in or bring them back.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2018 05:46AM by summer.

No I am not going to follow the directives. I am not even a member in that ward.

They did not tell us what the RS was discussing in their council. They did say the Elders had a different topic for their council.

A member of the HP Group leadership team did mention that we should actually have the Elders there. That was the followed with a comment that each HP here should be assigned three Elders and their immediate family to get to know personally. Can you say extra HT on steroids. I saw it as more work and the HP group leader plus many HP saw it as a great opportunity.

I did come home and talked to my daughter about why she went in active. I asked her if it apathy. She said no and then gave me about 10 reasons

Issue with gays in Church. My daughter supports the gay and their causes. She is not gay.

Tithing and the big wigs in their expensive suits and homes. They should be like the rest of us

People at Church are very judgmental. Her words not mine.

She was told if she got divorced from her ex they Bishop was going to ex her. I know the history but that was a high energy reason, even as she said it yesterday.

You get the idea. She had very clear reasons and none to do with apathy.

One HP in the group said at the end of the meeting to give him an AP holder and 4 inactive families to HT. Now how can you play a better card than that!!

One HP said he had 5 names on a sheet of paper and he prayed and prayed over the names to get an understanding as to how to help them. he then told us the guy name and how he is now coming back to Church. Well it was the guy that bore his testimony yesterday and I had no idea or comprehension of what he was saying or trying to say. Again we did not need to know this history about the guy.And this guy was crying as he told us how he got this guy activated again.

So what ever happened to:

Prayer
Fasting
The Bishop receives revelation for the ward. Not individual members receives revelation for everyone else.

I am trying not to be too critical but just explaining what I saw and heard. I am sure these are good people doing the best they can with limited resources but the top dogs clearly have created a monster, at least in my mind. I will trust no one at Church anymore.

The only reason you weren't discussed is because you were there. Disgusting. You know who will be the topic next time though.

Some things never change. The ldsc is still trying to beat a dead horse.

I can't even think this way. If what you said is true they probably will. But its too twisted for me to even think about.Well we now meet at 9 AM and my running training group meets at 8 AM. They are way more fun and its a great experience running with 60 other people for a couple hours Sunday morning. Oh yea we talk running but WE NEVER EVER talk about so and so and how they are not doing very well running.

My hope is that when I cross over my wife will be there on the other side as the person who greets me tears off my running bib number for one last time. For 17 years my wife was always at the finish line even on Sunday races. For all my readers, posting this this stuff has made me very sad and down. This is not the Church I grew up in. This is not the way I think God works and this certainly is not right. I feel for the people who are inactive for whatever reasons.If they want to be left alone let them live the life they want want.

I guess they will call me a piss poor HP with an attitude. But I will continue to inform. I am sure I am on the Churches radar. That makes me sad too.I know beyond a shadow of belief I am a good person. Its just today I feel like a bad person.

I think if the Mormon church is not lifting you up each week, then you should go run instead. Do what makes you happy and feel uplifted.

I agree, running or doing something else you enjoy would be a better use of your time. How much of our time has already been wasted sitting in those dumb arss meetings?

SEP, you are a good person... caring and right-minded. Don’t let this get you down. It’s definitely them, not you!

KEEP running!

Like I just said in your other thread, I know they are talking about us. We got a bunch of love bombing at Christmas. Just waiting for more.

how glad I am to be out an not having to deal with that kind of BS anymore.

Was your tight circle like unto a dish?

I have never been in a group process seated as tight as we were yesterday. And I have never been in a group process where the group leader stood in front of his chair and ran the group.

Maybe everyone garments were too tight to cause them to process stuff.!!!!

Of those who regularly attend, I wonder what percentage only do so because they are afraid of being talked about?

There is precious little fear of ghawd in mormonism, but seemingly a good deal of fear of the wagging tongues of their co-religionists.

Are those of us who have "officially" resigned exempt from this council discussion?

It would be worth resigning just to not be one of their targets!

Or, are we only "off the rolls", and are doomed to be included on the Mormons' lists and in their gossip sessions? I need to know for sure, for my peace of mind. I need to know my children who resigned, and their children, are safe from Mormon invasions.

Are we safe?

We have lived here for 31 years, though, and were active mormon part of that time. Resigned or inactive, we're still missionary projects.

Apparently I have been discussed in like meetings. It was reported back to me that I have declared that "no one wearing stinky garments are to approach my door." I don't remember saying that (though it may be true).

Still got an invite to the ward Xmas breakfast. Delivered by a youth whose butt I saw smoking down the walk to get into the waiting transport car. He had left the invite note on my door knob hanging from an elastic band. (Got em' where I want em'. lol)

The active member (who reported it to me but doesn't wear garments) was pissed that I had gotten the invite, against her spreading the word that I didn't want the cults touching endeavors.

The last penisholder who knocked on my door also fled with his head ducked before I could get to the door. I am sure he was wearing stinky garments. Fun stuff.

As a nonmo, who has been to other Christian churches, I find the inner workings of the mormon church practices interesting.

Here are a couple of comments and a question at the end:

It truly is like a sales meeting. No talk of learning the "fill-in-the-blank" meaning, from a BoM or Bible chapter

"Goal: Each HP group in Stake is going to mentor the Elders. Not missionaries. Stake Directive.
1. Help the Elders to accomplish their home teaching
2. Have the Elders keep their coveants
3. Help the Elders to rise up and be better Priesthood holders. Stake Directive"

Directives/Orders??? from a church meeting to "spiritually enrich you?? wow

"He said they HAVE FOUND OTHER THINGS TO DO OTHER THAN GO TO CHURCH. That was written on board.
He said we must teach them and show them HOW MUCH HF LOVES THEM. That was written on board."

Let me get this straight for some mormons...grow up going to the little kid mormon activities/Sunday School/church, almost every sunday?, Go to church activities during the week?, Go to Seminary in high school?, go on a mission, go to BYUP,I,H or Snow College, marry a mormon?, go to the temple?, advance up mormon church ladder?, and they STILL DON'T KNOW THAT HF LOVES THEM??

"WE NEED TO BEFRIEND THE INACTIVE FAMILIES AND ELDERS." Being told to be someone's friend, just means you are NOT their friend, which is what was stated...

INVITE LESS ACTIVES INTO OUR HOMES". No one will want to come to your house if they know that you're going to preach to them, as opposed to being neighborly, friendly, like real people do.

"REMIND THE MEN OF THEIR PRIESTHOOD RESPONSIBILITY." Lay a guilt-trip on grown men??

"HAVE EACH HIGH PRIEST BE ASSIGNED ONE OR TWO ELDERS TO MENTOR. Time commitment." Uh much like how they used to do it in the USSR and how they do it now in NK.

"PAIR UP HP WITH ELDERS ACTIVE OR INACTIVE FOR HT." Along with all the other items on your new "to-do" list now, what about time to spend with YOUR family and YOUR friends?


And now SE Priest...a question for you....and this may have been answered already.....
With everything you listed and your frustration, why do you still attend? You see, have seen, or are seeing the writing on the wall. Just curious

"THEY HAVE FOUND OTHER THINGS TO DO OTHER THAN GO TO CHURCH."

Well, DUH!!!

Simple Skinnerian psychology: people tend to do that which pleases them more. (There are times when this must be modified, for the common good, but that's another discussion for another time.)

For a long time, I thought that religion was something that "should" be in my life. I found Mormonism, which eventually destroyed any religious leanings in my life.

Where church used to be, in my life, I have found many other things. Sleeping in. Reading. Going out for brunch with DH and/or other family members.

These are things I LIKE to do. Things I WANT to do. And I enjoy every one of them more than I ever enjoyed going to church. At my stage of life, there are not a lot of people who have the power to dictate to me any more. Fortunately, most of the things in life that give me joy are limited only by my ability to afford them, and my physical ability to participate in them.

So, freedom to CHOOSE is, and always has been, important to me. I choose not to participate in church, and I am grateful to have that freedom. As Spanish speakers say, "Me gusta." (It pleases me.")