I’ve had many encounters with these fine strapping young lads. By which I mean, they’ve almost always been a disaster. Some of that has allowed me to study their tactics and how they behave, but at this point I’m done with that. Now, I just want to know how I can speak to them in a way that makes my point clear, while also being maybe not always polite but humane. My goal also isn't to shock them with True info, my guess is that will go nowhere. They’re used to wanting to get the upper hand in any interaction and I want to do my best to not give it to them. Any insight would be great.

There's nothing in it for you or for them.

Whenever you're done talking to them, just tell them not to return because you don't want to be a mormon. Tell them that firmly and as often as necessary until they finally leave you alone.

I mean specifically, I want to know how to be firm with them in the way they'll shut up.

'Please respect my privacy and my free choice to move on. Goodbye and good luck." Shut the door or hang up the phone.

Don't let them inside your home and don't try to explain or expect them to understand.

...should I ignore and keep walking?

I’ve noticed that Mormons tend to trace everything back to having a testimony. That they believe absolutely because they have a testimony, and if you leave you never had a strong testimony and you just need to strengthen it. That everyone becoming Mormon is only a matter of them gaining one. If I were to list any of my 50+ reasons why I’d never join their church, they wouldn’t think it matters because I just need to gain a testimony. The level of guarantee they expect related to testimonies is some rather overblown confidence. Now even though they all say they’re in it because they have a testimony that their church or their scripture is true, it seems that there’s much more to it than that. I’m trying to articulate what, but right now I don’t know. Anything you could enlighten about this?

Yes, agree with cheryl do not let them into your home. I would go one step further and not let any church authority into your home which i need to do better with. Maybe when a missionary asks you any question, just say, health in the navel, like the bard would. You pretty much skip all the bullsh#t when you do that.

In passing on the street, have fun with them.

1. Learn to say you don't speak English in some exotic languages like Russian, Polish or Swahili.

2. Tell them you and your sister wives would love to have them over for dinner to meet your daughters. Ask them how many wives they already have.

3. Tell them their fly is open and keep walking.

If they come to your door, just ignore them.

You're looking at 18 year old kids with no ability to respectfully hold a conversation about religion. They've ne er been away from home. They know nothing else.

The other languages suggestion is great, I think I'll use that.

I had just gotten off a train in Berlin. I was tired, wanted to go to my hotel, and didn't feel like dealing with missionaries. One of them started talking to me in horrible German. (My German isn't great, but my accent is impeccably Bavarian, thanks to my Grandma.)

I asked, "Where ya from, son?" They were delighted to speak English. One of them was from Idaho, and the other was from Utah. They asked me, of course, if I knew about COJOLDS. I said that indeed I did, and had resigned from it. They were stunned, naturally. I told them I hoped that their day would brighten up, and walked away.

I show them the pentacle I wear and tell them I'm pagan. They avoid me after that and apparently pass the word on to their successors.

That might not work for you, but it sure as hell shuts them up. They have no idea how to deal with pagans and don't want to try.

Just tell them you are gay. They will turn tail and run.

Tell them quite firmly that you have decided that you do not want to be a Mormon, and that you want no further contact from them. Ask them to take you off of whatever records they maintain for contacts (it used to be called an area book, IDK what it's called now.) Try that twice, if it doesn't work simply refuse to open the door to them or to acknowledge them in any way. Hopefully that will do the trick.

The key is to be firm. You can't waffle or engage in debate with them. You have to disengage completely.

If I'm approached by any sort of solicitor on the street or in a shopping mall, I just silently shake my head "no" and keep walking.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 02:39PM by summer.

Well, you could train yourself, like the missionaries have been trained. You can read assertiveness-training books, such as "When I Say No I Feel Guilty," and "Assertiveness Training for Women" (which also applies to men). In the books are specific dialogs to memorize and rehearse. There are generalized techniques on how to get rid of manipulators and stalkers.

Also, in observing the missionaries' behavior, you might have picked up on some of these well-practiced techniques. Being "assertive but not aggressive" is a way to be "not always polite but humane," as you say.

My favorite technique is the common "broken record" technique. Just say "no" over and over and over and over again. I have had to say "no" probably on the average of 10 times per brief conversation with Mormons.

"No." (Do not water it down with "no, thank you" or with any excuse or explanation, whatsoever!)

"No, I won't talk to you."
"No, I am not interested"
"No, I won't do that"
"No, I will not."
"No, I won't open the door" (my personal favorite reply, yelled through the closed door.)
"No, Go away."
"No, Leave us alone."

Even, "No solicitors" opens things up for discussion. "We are not soliciting, we are here to help you...." Then, you reply, "You are soliciting for our tithing money...." This is now a conversation. As you well know. It does no good to try to carry on a reasonable conversation with a missionary.

The "No" messages are not rude, because they are "I" messages. You have a right to not talk, to not open your door, to keep walking to where you are headed. What would be rude, and a waste of time and breath, would be "you" messages, and accusations. For example, "Your church is fake." Missionaries expect this, and have a counter argument for every possible accusation. The missionaries will turn it into a debate or a testimony-bearing. It is the only True Church on the face of the Earth, founded by a True Prophet of God bla-bla, and there you are, stuck again, listening to missionary lies.

I don't understand why people want to be "humane" to missionaries, who disrespect your human rights. They tell LIES. They stalk your CHILDREN. They want to con you our of your money. They will accuse you of being less righteous. They will separate children from their parents, and undermine parental authority in favor of "God's authority." They will not hesitate to turn your spouse against you and break up your family. Mormon missionaries are far more deleterious than mere "trespassers."


You have come to your own conclusion.

"They’re used to wanting to get the upper hand in any interaction and I want to do my best to not give it to them."

Simply, set your personal boundaries. My boundaries are to not respond to missionaries, and to keep them away from my family.

Do not feed
Do not make eye contact
Run away

All great points, thank you.

I will say when it comes to being humane--I expect that most missionaries, like most Mormons in general, have absolutely no idea what they're doing. My experience with Mormons have been they're usually brainwashed and would otherwise be decent people if not. I try to be humane with everyone I come in contact with. While I want to be assertive and stand my ground, I also don't want to be needlessly harsh, unless the situation would really call for it.

...I would also rather not give them an excuse to develop a persecution complex.

Good post. If they come back after the first or 2nd no, I'd tell them I don't think they're very good mormons because they are refusing to follow the 11th article of faith.

"11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

Sidebar, has the wording of that AOF been changed? I don't remember it reading like that when I was memorizing it.

Mormons hate F-bombs. It's mormon kryptonite.

"No, I don't care about your f***ing church [cult]."
"Your f***ing testimony is worthless."
"F*** off, kid." (If you want to be polite: "Please f*** off, kid.")
"F*** your so-called prophet."

You get the idea.

Use common sense. They won't be able to combat that (which they necessarily possess little to none of). NEVER let them bury their testimony (they'll never find it again).

Just tell them you do not want what they have, and that there is no such thing as gods or prophets.

Just say “Allah akbar” and start praising Muhammad. They’ll be like, “okay, we’re done here”.

If they come to your door, don't answer. If you do happen to answer the door, just tell them you are not interested and shut the door, whether they are speaking or not. They are used to it, and they are interrupting you, not the other way around.

If you see them on the street, never stop walking. Either ignore them, or say or nod "No” and keep moving. Just like the scammers on the streets in Europe with their petitions or "Do you speak English?” Signs, just keep walking and never give them the time of day. Don't ever let them stop you or corner you. Just like the thieves in Europe with their scams, these missionaries are ultimately about picking your pocket, and likely for a lot more than an pick pocket usually gets.

I agree with all these tactics suggested by everyone.
And O/T is correct. They can trace absolutly ANYTHING to testimony - even pregnancy and natural causes.

I remember a lady in one of my old wards say that 9/11 was a major distaster because the people had no testimonies and didn't believe in the mormon cult. If they did they wouldn't have been killed. The lady was senile.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 06:11PM by lazylizard.

O/T was me, the original poster.
I briefly forgot how to do internet formatting correctly.

When I first learned about the Mormon church, I found it rather unsettling how it's beat into everyone's heads, especially, children to constantly say, "I know the church is true", "I know the Book of Mormon is true", "I know we have prophets", etc. I never had anything like this in my church growing up. These principles merely being true wasn't as important. I found this Mormon practice unnecessary at best.

Now, I think it's full-on creepy.

Just say "no thanks".

There's no need to makea big production out of it.

saucie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just say "no thanks".
>
> There's no need to makea big production out of it.


I agree, saucie, no drama needed.

Just say the amazing small-but-powerful-word, NO.

Back when missionaries would try to talk to me when I was in college, I’d just yell “F*** Gordon Hinckley!” as loud as I could and keep walking. Worked every time. Honestly, I think the thing that bothered them the most was that I dropped the B.

Do they really care that much about it? They need to get a life.

Don't give them the time of day.

It's always the same time (time to learn)!

Ask them, "What does this mean? . . .

"Health in the navel; marrow in the bone, strength in the loins
and in the sinew; power in the priesthood be upon me, and upon my
posterity, through all generations of time and throughout all
eternity."?

baura Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ask them, "What does this mean? . . .
>
> "Health in the navel; marrow in the bone, strength
> in the loins
> and in the sinew; power in the priesthood be upon
> me, and upon my
> posterity, through all generations of time and
> throughout all
> eternity."?

It means Joseph was a lousy poet.

They aren't talking billboards or walking statues are they (I mean, even if they were)? You don't [have to] say anything. Change the subject if needs be - it could use changing.

What I say to them is "get off my land or I'm calling the sheriff".

Ask them Socratic questions, that they cant answer with the cliches they were programmed to parrot.
Provoke them to actually think about the ethics, morality and logic of singing the praises of a man who abused his power and authority to cuckold his followers, by pretend "marrying" his followers wives and teenage daughters, when there is and never was a law that permitted that kind of perverted sexual abuse.

I agree with Koriwhore, and personally find a Socratic approach to most helpful and often less confrontational.

I often ask questions about the early practice of polygamy to see how much they know and if they're willing to draw lines on what is proper and improper.

Many don't know and reject the suggestion that about 1/3 of Joseph's plural wives were already married to other men when he approached them to marry him. I ask them if they can imagine the circumstances where that would be proper. Since polygamy was intended to restore an ancient biblical practice, can they cite anywhere in the Bible that a man sought a relationship with a married woman? I'm only familiar with one (David and Bathsheba) and I seem to recall that didn't end well.

I also ask about topics addressed in the online essays posted by the church.

Here's the one covering Joseph's polyandry: https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng

It depends on what they say to you.

As little - or as much - as possible. Spontaneous or calculated. Necessary. Called for.

I often say to them, "Hi Elders. Are you hungry? Would you like me to treat you to lunch or dinner at a restaurant of your choice?"

How do they usually respond?

I can't remember any ever turning me down unless they already had a lunch or dinner appointment that day.

What's your objective in doing this?

This what I would do too (except it's quite hard in France to meet mishies, only happened once in 35 years...).

The purpose: to show how good and charitable non-mormons can be (even atheists like me!).

Tom in Paris

Floatingnevermo,

For many years Mormonism has been a major "hobby" of mine. I find it more interesting to study than Greek Mythology! All aspects of Mormonism are endlessly fascinating to me. And I view Mormon missionaries as a fascinating subculture within the larger culture of Mormonism. So missionaries are interesting to me in that I'm interested in how they were raised, what motivated them to go on missions, how strong their testimonies are, what they want to do when they go back home, etc. In addition I respect them for taking on an often difficult task for two years, and I enjoy helping to see to it that they get good meals. So it boils down to that I enjoy hanging out with them. Even though I have no belief in any aspect of Mormonism that is unique to it, I still view each missionary as a fellow human being who is a privilege to get to know. They often want to know what I personally believe, and sometimes we can get into interesting theological and other discussions which I enjoy.

So I hope the above explains some of what my objective is.

I myself find Mormonism fascinating and would agree on a lot of those points as things I would like to know more about. Yet, I’m also at the point that I find missionary exchanges exhausting. I have rarely had a pleasant such exchange. They try to keep any conversation about selling the product. I’d simply not like to buy it. I once went to Temple Square in Salt Lake City. I wanted to learn things about the history, architecture, etc. of the buildings, but they were far more interested in telling me about the doctrine (which I already know). But to be fair, I’m also someone with rather poor social skills—I think it would take better to know how to interact with them meaningfully.

Floatingnevermo,

Often new missionaries I meet have often been told by their companions or predecessors that I'm not likely to convert. Or if they haven't been told this, I make it clear early on. The result is that the young Elders are usually pretty mellow with me and don't do much in the way of trying to sell their product. (Even though mission rules preclude my treating sister missionaries to meals, I've had limited contact with them and found they sometimes were significantly more aggressive towards me than the Elders. And I've found senior missionaries generally to be the most aggressive. I tend to try to avoid them.)

Sister missionaries being more aggressive has been my experience as well. Funny that it sounds like you’re “in the know” in your local missionary network. Most of my missionary interaction happened online. I have been approached by a missionary pair exactly once. Whenever I saw them out and about, they were usually already with someone or on the computers at the library. I’ve encountered them at the Mormon churches I’ve been to, and oddly, the male missionaries didn’t speak to me hardly at all but the sister missionaries pounced at the opportunity!

I don’t know if you’ve ever been to a Mormon church service, but if you have, I’d be curious what you think.

floatingnevermo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I don’t know if you’ve ever been to a Mormon
> church service, but if you have, I’d be curious
> what you think.

I've visited Mormon church services a number of times. With Mormonism, you will be in church three hours each Sunday, which is longer than I would want to be there. First hour is Sacrament Meeting, the highlight of which is partaking of Holy Communion using bread and water as the elements. There are also hymns, and talks by members assigned to speak on a particular topic that Sunday. I found some talks to be more interesting than others. Also noticed a tendency for the speakers to quote current or former Church Presidents and General Authorities in their talks. Second hour is Sunday School, which was my favorite part, in that I had opportunities to weigh in on questions the teacher would ask the students. Third hour the men went to Elders Quorum (Priesthood) meeting and the women to Relief Society meeting. To me, the Priesthood meeting seemed to be pretty much just another Sunday School session, but for men only.

One Sunday each month is Fast and Testimony Meeting. I only visited one of these that I can remember. It seemed to me that most of the testimonies given were just affirmations of the truth of various aspects of Mormonism. They would say something like: "Brothers and Sisters, I bear you my testimony that I know that [aspect of Mormonism] is true. And I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen."

I have been to one Mormon baptism. The person was baptized, of course, and there were also talks given.

Yeah, what you describe echoes my experiences with Mormon church services. I also notice they quote church leaders a lot. More than scripture, I think. They put their statements on a high pedestal.

I've been to services of over 40+ different religious groups. Having all that comparison, I have found Mormon church services, to put it bluntly, boring. Far more boring than most. The first one I went to the talks were some of the most uninspiring I have heard anywhere, ever.

you know nothing!!!! or you would know that you are flushing two years of your life down the toilet and you would not be here harassing me on behalf of predatory ASSpostHOLES who have more than they can use who are going to leave you with NOTHING for your efforts on their behalf !!!!!

Non-Mormons try to be polite while dropping hints hoping that the Mormon will "get it" and drop the subject. But many Mormons (especially missionaries) don't pick up on these normal social cues and don't back off. Being polite usually doesn't work. They force you to be rude and then walk away in a huff complaining about your rudeness.

DON'T see ya'!

What don't you say?

When I get a call from a telemarketer I say, "please put me on
your do-not-call list." I'm sure you can figure out a variation
on this line that would apply to situation with the mishies.