My husband has been out for about 5 years. He still teaches in High Priests every month. He enjoys the social aspects of the church and attends to be able to hang out with a group of guys. The lesson he taught today was about the Book of Mormon - from a conference talk by Russ Nelson. I feel angry that he is a non-believer, but then for popularity sake, teaches information he totally does not believe in. How do I come to terms with this? It seems really dishonest. It don't trust him in other aspects of our lives together after watching his dishonesty.

Of course this is just silly me talking...

Do you buy clothes and make-up, and then do your hair up, all with the intent of projecting something thing or things you're really not?

The image you project to the outside world, are their any fibs to it?

I lie like a Mexican when it suits me; I love the convenience a simple lie can bring me. I doubt that I'm alone in that, except for the Mexican part.

I'll leave the reasons behind your complaint to others !!

My brother works for a bunch rich of Jews that run Toronto. Your situation with your husband sounds like exactly the same thing. None of the Jews that my brother works with believe or live their religion, but they still get together often for breakfast and special holiday events and call themselves Jews. They admit it and they are okay with it.

Just assume that every other High Priest in the room is a non-believer and they have figured out the fraud of TSCC. I bet at least half of them are the same as your husband. Attending for the social aspect, not the lesson.

It's probably not what you wanted to hear, but this is the new reality for the modern LDS church. No different than many of the Jews of today and yesteryear.

As for my brother, he calls himself Mormon but doesn't practice it seriously anymore. He learned from a religion that has been around much longer than his just how Mormonism should be treated. It is just another way to keep cliques of people working together focused on a common goal. The business of scratching each other's backs, that's all!

I'm not sure jews are an accurate comparison. Unlike LDS, there are MANY brands and levels of judaism, even jewish humanism. Judaism is a religion, a culture an ethnicity. My mother who is a serious ethnic/cultural jew, but thinks nothing of eating bacon before services on yom kippor or ham and cheese on her matzoh. But she loves the services, the traditions, the family holidays (the family are at various ends on the jewish spectrum, none are orthodox, only some keep kosher). She prays to "god" and feels strongly about the torah, at the same time also feels strongly that the stories are fables and oral history with scientific explanations.

This is all accepted in judaism. It's not considered hypocrisy by mainstream jews. One's jewishness isn't determined by synagogue membership, activity/inactivity, etc. Even for those who do belong to a temple, you can pick the philosophy that resonates with you, orthodox, modern orthodox, chabad lubavitch, conservative, reform/liberal, reconstructionist, humanist, or just go to services on the high holy days, or just spend them with family, or not even any of that.You can go somewhere in your area, across town, whatever, it doesn't matter. With LDS, there's only one real way, there's a file on you, you can't be a casual LDS member, honest about it and still be in good standing.

So you're pissed because you husband has figured out that the church is a fraud and he acting fraudulent?

The church takes advantage of suckers. Give him the grace to sucker them back.

StillAnon - that is exactly it. I left because I think the church is fraudulent. I don't go because I don't think it is morally correct to support something that is fraudulent and especially not continue the fraud by 'teaching" it.

Are you in Utah? I know a lot of people that don't believe, but play the game. Their job or customer base is dependent on them appearing to be good mormons. We all have an innate ability to act dishonestly if it helps us climb the next rung. Not saying that's the way to go, but that we all have that gene. You think the guys at the top of the pyramid made it through 70+ years of not figuring out the church is BS? They're all playing the game for wealth and adulation.

It's a mythology with which your husband feels a great deal of comfort. He could just as easily be a Trekker at a Star Trek convention. Or a Lord of the Rinds aficionado.

Years ago, I was a fan of a particular TV show. I participated in online discussion groups. I read fan fiction. I went to every convention. Like the other fans, I could recite dialogue by heart. I could analyze characters and their motives. I could debate plot points. I could discuss the grey areas between good and evil (a specialty of the show.) As a group, the fans knew "the book" (the show's backstory) better than the new writers to the series. At the conventions, we would visit filming locations for the show. We had a friend/liason on the production staff, and met all of the actors and much of the supporting crew. To this day, I own a costume that was worn on one episode by the lead actress.

And...it was all fiction. We knew that, of course. But it was a "world" with which we had a deep familiarity and were conversant. Our fellow fans were "our people."

It's like that for your husband. He knows it's fiction. But it's his world, his people. I would let him enjoy it.

Futurama! It was Futurama, right?

I'm as certain of it as I am that ghawd lives on a deserted beach.

Ha! Nope.

Firefly?

Nope. :D But not a bad guess.

I'll give a clue -- the series was filmed in Toronto around the turn of the millenium. To this day, I love that city.

You mean around 2000 or the previous turn of the millenium? If 2000 in Toronto, I'm at a loss. Dead like me is the only thing I can think of.

Okay, I'll bite. It was, "La Femme Nikita," a USA Network TV show that ran from '97 to '01. The costume that I own was worn by actress Peta Wilson, and I still wear it sometimes. A number of producers and writers from the show went on to work for other very successful shows.

We had a lot of fun. Our group was also friendly with the fans of the TV show "Roswell" who were as crazy about their show as we were about ours.

Toronto is really rather amazing when it comes to TV production. I remember once when I was driving back to the airport, and I saw about 20 TV production trailers in various locations throughout the city.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2018 07:42PM by summer.

Does he tithe?

I'd feel a little creeped about the honesty unless they know he's a non-believer and give him space in hope he returns. If he's just fooling them I'd be uncomfortable about the blatant dishonesty. Unless you're in a very mormon area.

If he still tithes from marital funds, THAT would be a problem for me. He can find a hobby cheaper than 10 percent of your income

How would you like him to set the parameters of requirements for your girlfriends?

Or, better yet, he could get all comfy and honest with the sort of fellows who hang out at the titty bars and casinos.

Really. Cut some slack here. If he has to get up and talk about stuff he doesn't believe in, eventually, it may wear thin. It's also possible that he's not totally a non-believer, but agrees with you for the most part to save stress his marriage.

I'm a woman, and honestly, I'm not totally buying that the only aspect that has you miffed is his honesty. Is it possible that you want some Sundays with him? If so, don't just leave it out of the mix that you are feeling a little cheated out of his time.

I'd also ask you to consider this - If he's being honest about his beliefs with you, and you're the one he trusts the most, can tell you anything because you won't judge him, best friend and all, do you really want to risk that by judging him now?

I think you are way too emotionally vested in his non-wife friendships. If they bring him peace and happiness, isn't that the kinds of friends and freedom you want for him?

Sorry to be so blunt, but I think what you need to come to terms with is how you're judging him. Let go a little.

Hi Squeaky,
I really like that he has a life outside our marriage, and quite frankly it is nice when I have time to myself and my friends too. Part of my angst with his teaching at church is my anger about the church's position on marriage equality. My husband and I have a really good friend that is gay and was in a hetero marriage for years. It has been such a difficult road for our friend to leave a marriage and live an authentic life. I don't understand people who support the church when the church does such damage to in people's lives. My husband teaching is just promoting LDS inc. in my opinion.

Her dad is gay. She gets along a lot better with him that she does me and I stayed around and raised her. I don't find it appealing that she is TBM, but she is my daughter. She was anti for a long time. I tend to believe she is mormon for other reasons than believing in it. She hasn't been particularly kind to me, although we are getting along really good right now.

I hope someday she figures it out. My dad wasn't very TBM at all during our lives, but he kept asking me why I wasn't going back after my marriage failed for obvious reasons. I was the devout child. My mother was always the one who was on our cases for following all the rules. YET when it came to me leaving, she told me I could be spiritual without being religious, and my dad wanted me to go back, but he very seldom obeyed. He chewed tobacco, drank coffee, and drank alcohol, didn't attend much while we were growing up and never went back to the temple until my sister got married 25 years after he did. He also voiced to me, once he found out I wasn't going back, all his problems with the lds church like the temple and the Mark Hofmann story.

I think all people are on different levels. If I were you, I'd just be pleased he isn't coming home and preaching to you to go back and isn't going to divorce you because you don't.

This is one of those things I'd let go. He isn't lying to you, is he? He isn't cheating? He's a good husband? Having been cheated on, I'd definitely let it go.

My ex is still friends with his sisters who post things on fb about mormonism and gays. I call them on what they post and he says, "Someone needs to" and then I take the fall when they say I have issues. ha ha ha He never stands up for himself with them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2018 08:09PM by cl2.

I appreciate your perspective cl2. He just talks out both sides of his mouth. Maybe he believes more than he lets on.

Does your husband love you? I hope so. I am fortunate to be married to my best friend. My Sweetheart. All I have to do is be myself. Drink some beer? No problem. Too tired to take care of the livestock? No problem. And trust me, I am 100% there for her. We got each other’s back. Really, it’s beyond wonderful.

I trust her with everything.

Why be married to someone you don’t implicitly trust? What’s the point?

Do you have mistrust from religion, or is it deeper? So he finds pleaure being with friends. Not much different than stories on the golf course. Just a different setting.

Have you thought about your expectations? Do you know his?

What if you both sat down with tolerance and talked about expectations?

It’s hard to do for mormons. The whole honesty thing. Know what I mean?

Do you know a guy who would take a $20 to sit in his class and ask really tough questions?

Maybe he understands human nature a little too well. They would so turn on him if he didn’t play ball, and it’s not worth the suffering and loss. I think it’s a matter of priorities. The falsity of it isn’t a big deal to him. Religion is ideally true to its dogmas. Science is ideally true to its measurements. Is the truth what you see, or what you think, or what is? Maybe which one is a matter of taste. Maybe you don’t like dogma. I hate it. Of course in centuries past, when life was short and information was hard to come by, dogma served a purpose.

So, I’m willing to say the religion might have been okay then. It did have the best the 19th century had to offer. It’s just not okay now, because it comes up way short in the 21st century.

One of my 86-year old friends did temple work today. Good for him if it makes him happy. That the original purpose of the temple was to hide and promote adultery under the color of revelation, or the ridiculousness of it all, doesn’t come into play.

Maybe he is teaching the class as if it was a literature class reading a fiction novel. To him he is just quoting important passages from the text.
I suspect there are others in that HP class who may be approaching it the same way. I was a complete sap and tried to believe it all the time... which motivated me to leave.
However if your husband is able to act like he still believes in front of "friends", that makes him a pretty good actor. I would sit him down and make it very clear that if he pulls any of that shit at home, he will have chosen to end your marriage. I would review all your joint savings and investments, as you may at some point need to end the relationship. Let him have his community theater experience each week, but if he practices at home, he is choosing to live alone.

Please remember that I am an anonymous person on the internet and my advice should be weighted as such. This is just my $0.02



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2018 01:42AM by chipace.

Do you want to divorce?

I would feel angry and distrustful as well. It would be nice if the two of you together could find some other social outlet - maybe a couples group that dines together or something. Or, if he needs "guy time," it would be nice for him to pursue some hobbies and interests that will help him meet some other men to be friends with. Like rec sports or fishing, hiking etc.