Would love feedback from Tevai, AmyJo and any others who have a real good understanding of the various Judaism schools of thought.


I found it very interesting

http://www.new2torah.com/2012/10/the-mormon-deception-among-hebrews/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2018 03:30PM by angela.

This is not about Judaism...

...it is about a sector of Christianity which is using Jewish writings, and some (evidently selected) Jewish observances, as a "selling point" for their Christian teachings.

There is nothing Jewish about this at all, except that the writings cited are from the Bible.

Whaddia mean there's nothing Jewish about mormonisim??!

I know mormons are all about questioning their own beliefs...even to the point of arguing face-to-face about scriptures.

Mormons have lots of holidays and are into healing the world.

...no wait...I meant Jews do all of those things, mormons just shuffle into church nod their heads and agree with everything and go home in their enormous trucks because they think global warming is a myth.

thanks, Tevai.

I once had a nice Jewish boy explain how the Mormons were like Jews in their historic persecution. If he only knew.

The homepage of said link explains the narrator's background as growing up in a Christian home, then coming to embrace the real Christ (Yeshua) as he discovered him through Torah rather than the traditional Christianity he grew up with.

He sounds very much like a Messianic Jew to me. Typically a Messianic Jew is someone who was born and raised a Jew, and later converts to Christianity.

There are some Christians as in this guy's case, who in his heart converted to Judaism before converting back to Christianity. He wants to be both, with the disclaimers Messianic Jews give to Christianity.

I attended a Messie synagogue for five years soon after leaving Mormonism for the last time. In the time I spent there I came to see it for another kind of cult similar in some respects to Mormonism. The Messies where I worshiped were app 10% born Jews who converted to Christianity. The other 90% were Christians who fancied themselves as Jews without actually converting to Judaism, like this guy in the video does.

At an actual Jewish synagogue they consider real Messianic Jews traitors of their faith. They reject them as betraying their religion and what it represents.

This guy really is intent on making sure his message gets across that Mormons are a cult. He hasn't awoken to the idea that he himself is in one of his own doing.

Once I had that awareness of being a Messianic Jew, ie, it was another freacking cult, I left Messianic Judaism. I haven't been back since.

Haven't had that experience yet as a practicing Jew. I've had my share of questions and doubts, but no sense I'm in another cult like that of Mormonism or Messianic Judaism. It's been a completely different experience for me in a positive way. :)

I will add though that Christ himself was a lifelong Jew. He never changed stripes, he was Jewish from birth unto death. He lived as a Jew. Worshiped as one, observing the Jewish holy days and rites. And he died as one too. He was an itinerant Jewish rabbi with a rather large following that only became larger after he died to cover the whole world.

Similar to the Diary of Anne Frank. She became larger in death than in life based on a diary of her writings. Like a candle flame that is lit and kindled, that doesn't grow dim with time. :-)

Thanks AmyJo.
Your ending comments about Jesus. I find myself irritated at so many Christians who take Jesus out of his context of being a Jew, Living as Jew, etc.

I keep trying to tell them, Jesus was not a Christian. He was Jew.

It falls on deaf ears, or dumb minds. Perhaps both.

Close minded people fail to understand he was never anything other than a Jew. The whole Christian thing is a construct of other people and places/times. Maybe that's why there are so many close minded people who fancy themselves Christians, while at the same time they are able to discriminate so freely those who aren't one of them as 'unsaved.'

Judaism doesn't do that to other religions. Christianity distorted the word of Christ to fit only their world view. In Judaism there is room for other religions at the table, and many roads can lead to heaven. They aren't nearly as judgmental or condemning as some Christians have been to them historically. Which is why IMO many Jews keep their distance and view Christians with skepticism and disdain. They don't feel like they have to save the world by converting them to their faith. It's against their religion to proselytize.

Giving sermons on the other hand, like Christ's Beatitudes or Sermon on the Mount? Those were teachings he learned straight up from the Psalms and Proverbs. He was taught those scriptures as part of his education that carried him through life and became his own teachings, now found in the NT.

Joseph Smith plagiarized the Beatitudes and Sermon on the Mount verbatim found in the Book of Mormon, directly from his 1759 KJV bible the Smith family kept in their upstate Palmyra farmhouse.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2018 06:11PM by Amyjo.

Are you saying that the Judaism that exists today was the same as that of Jesus' time?
I mean, I see a great deal of discrimination, including religious, in both the old and new testaments, to be honest.

I don't believe it's the same. It's evolved a lot because civilization has evolved.

Judaism still teaches from the Torah and Talmud as its principle instruction booklets. The commentary is as instrumental in Jewish teachings as the scriptures are, given that rabbis and scholars spend their lives immersing themselves in Torah study and then teach from the insights they gain.

Jesus revolutionized the Old Testament teachings by becoming the 'sacrificial lamb' as the son of God - Messiah. He was a Jew in spirit. Because he taught he was the son of God, ie, the Messiah the Jews were and still are awaiting (it means something different to them than what it does to Christians,) he was rejected as the Jewish messiah by his own people.

Messianic Judaism teaches he came to fulfill the law of the OT prophets, not to replace it. There are Christian sects who reject that train of thought believing he replaced the OT law, rather than fulfilling it. Those Christians reject Jews as being the tribe of Israel. They see themselves as 'grafted in,' and the Jews as going to hell unless they accept their messiah, Jehovah.

Messianics blur the distinction between Christians and Jews IMO. They think they have to save the Jews from themselves, while believing them chosen. It's confusing.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Judaism doesn't do that to other religions.
> Christianity distorted the word of Christ to fit
> only their world view. In Judaism there is room
> for other religions at the table, and many roads
> can lead to heaven. They aren't nearly as
> judgmental or condemning as some Christians have
> been to them historically.

This is the part that I question. Based on scripture, I wouldn't say that, at least in the past and at the time of Jesus that there is room for other religions and that they "didn't do that" (discriminate).

When I have read both old and new testaments, I see a great deal of discrimination against other religions.

Maybe in modern times, Jews are far more ecumenical, but anciently? I don't see it, to be honest.

Jews historically have been a nomadic tribe that has stuck together as a faith community.

They just want to be able to worship according to their beliefs, and to be left alone by those who want to convert them to theirs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2018 09:30PM by Amyjo.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jews historically have been a nomadic tribe that
> has stuck together as a faith community.
>
> They just want to be able to worship according to
> their beliefs, and to be left alone by those who
> want to convert them to theirs.


You really don't see discrimination the like in both the old and new testaments by the Jews?

I've read the bible through one time as a young adult. Since reading it from cover to cover three chapters at a time, the parts I now gravitate to aren't its wars or genealogies. They boor me to tears. I read the scriptures that inspire and that I find uplifting.

As to wars they've fought have sometimes won and sometimes lost. It's a story of a people who doesn't give up, and doesn't lose sight they are children of God. It's a story of their faith despite great adversity, upheaval and loss. And their indomitable spirit that endures to this day.

You are a bit monomaniacal on the issue of how wonderful Jews are, and it seems possible that it has skewed your view of reality.

Angela is trying to get a yes or no answer from you regarding 'discrimination' practiced by Jews in the Old and New Testament. Your responses ignore that issue and simply ladle out your position on how wonderful Jews are. (Which isn't a big surprise after getting to read your recent comment about a roomful of Jews would be smarter than a roomful of any other group of people. Frankly, I loved that comment, but it got pulled, apparently by someone who wanted to spare your feelings.)

While we're at it, I get the idea behind Halal law deeming any child of a Jewish woman to be Jewish, but how about genetic "laws" and their impact on Jewishness?

No, you're taking what I said out of context.

I shared what I had to say for Angela, not to you.

It's what I believe based on my understanding of the history of my people.

In that other thread what I said you also took out of context. I compared a roomful of Mormons to a roomful of Jews as to appearances. They are nothing alike. Jewish people are smarter overall than Mormons are.

Why should you care? You're neither Mormon or Jewish.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2018 12:46AM by Amyjo.

Care to give us any scientific studies that show Jews being Smarter than Mormons?

Their contributions to society in terms of science, medicine, and the humanities.

It's a stark contrast by comparison.

That is based on my own observations having worshiped among both groups. The Jews where I worship there are vastly more physicians, scientists, and lawyers in addition to business moguls that I didn't find in nearly as many numbers at any Mormon ward I've attended.

Their intelligence exceeds the Mormons by the fact they are not followers of a cult that is Mormonism. They wouldn't fall for that to begin with. There are vastly fewer numbers of Jewish converting to Mormonism than there are Mormons converting to Judaism. That is incontrovertible. Ask a Salt Lake City Jewish rabbi and he'll tell you that is so.

They study, analyze, digest, discuss, and share ideas with mutual respect for those they assemble with. Jews are encouraged to explore, ask questions including of their religion, and to debate with each other in healthy discussion. Mormons are discouraged from doing this. When people at Mormon church ask questions exploring even the history of their church they are met with glazed over eyeballs staring back at them, or at the ceiling. Too many differences to count in terms of intelligent discourse.

Being born of Jewish mothers has provided me with an escape hatch out of Mormonism and finding another suitable Christian denomination for me to identify with. I didn't need to. I am Jewish. I found a stronger identity to connect with as a Jew to replace what I used to identify with as a Mormon. They are light years apart. Jews are more intelligent by comparison, on average, if you were to compare charts between both groups. I compared based on my personal observations as a social scientist.

There are numbers and stats confirming my observations.

"Though Jews make up a mere 0.25 percent of the world’s population and a mere 3 percent of the United States’, they account, according to their paper, for 27 percent of all American Nobel Prize winners, 25 percent of all ACM Turing Award winners for computer science, and 50 percent of the globe’s chess champions. (What the paper doesn’t say is that these numbers seem to be tallied for optimum Jewishness, counting as Jews those who have as few as one Jewish grandparent to claim; it also wrongly assumes these winners are all Ashkenazim. But still.) Cochran and Harpending also cite studies claiming that Ashkenazim have the highest IQ of any ethnic group for which there’s reliable data, perhaps as much as a full standard deviation above the general European average, which means, at the far end of the spectrum, that 23 per thousand Ashkenazim have an IQ over 140, as opposed to 4 per thousand Northern Europeans."

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/culture/features/1478/index1.html

kind of like a Master Race then. Perhaps a Eugenics Program would be a worthwhile endeavor ? In fact the genetic superiority might lead us to want to terminate all those who don't quite measure up .If any group has not had a Nobel Prize then why would we want those defectives around with the possibly of contaminating the gene pool . Do you actually hear yourself when you post your ethnically superior "facts"?

I also thought you might like a musical number to spice up your Jewish Superiority ideas .Its called " Ashkenazi Uber Alles" Quite a catchy tune . Really gets the masses stirred up.

Why did you ask for facts since you obviously can't handle the truth?

You sound like a bigot to me. Just because Jews have a higher than average IQ does not make them superior. Why should it make you feel inferior? Did you suddenly get dumber by virtue of their known higher than average intelligence?

Or you were just trying to bait so you could come back with an insult about Jews superiority. They aren't superior.

So they have achievements in sciences and make significant contributions to society. You benefit from.

Maybe you could stretch yourself instead of lampooning others achievements for their "mental superiority" to your own.

you are the person stating Jews have intellectual superiority over others . Talk of any groups superiority especially when it concerns genetics is a scary proposal and the ramifications of such belief do often have horrible consequences .

I didn't say that. That Jews on average have higher isn't secret. It's well studied. Of more interest to academicians than theirs or your IQ level I should think is AI IQ capacity exceeding 10,000.

Humans will see the day AI will rule the planet. From driverless automobiles to self-serve checkout lines for starters. Robotics will rule soon enough.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2018 11:12AM by Amyjo.

When you state that a group is smarter or has higher IQ scores you are by those statements stating that group is SUPERIOR to other groups. The adjective superior means above average in merit, intelligence ,accomplishments etc. which is exactly what you have said

You got that right, anybody.

Mormons were quick to railroad the Jews in Hitler's Germany too btw. They were Mormon Nazis who used their genealogy to smoke out hidden Jews to turn them in to the gestapo.

They don't get a pardon for that.

Such a strange thread.

Weird historical view points, strange racial overtones, odd biblical interpretations, and lots of stupidity.

Since my boyfriend is a Jewish convert and can speak Hebrew, which shocks the hell out of me. He is again, A CONVERT. He is extremely brilliant. His ex is a Jew and his kids are, of course, Jewish. I have to mention here that I think it a bit crazy that his son's kids won't be considered Jews if they don't have a Jewish mother, but his daughter's kids will be considering his son is a practicing Jew and is very involved in Jewish charities, etc.

My boyfriend's kids got any of their intelligence from their father, BUT my kids are much smarter than his kids and he'll admit it on a good day. My daughter graduated with honors from college. His kids got their education paid for and squeaked through. Neither of them work right now as they have trust funds. Just blows my mind. They get a free education, but now don't work.

And I'll say again, I worked with Ph.D.s in science, mathematics, and chemistry who developed the propellant for the space shuttle and many other things. These men were extremely intelligent and most were mormons. You can't put people in categories. Every group has intelligent people. My dad was extremely intelligent, too, as are my brothers. My youngest brother only got a GED and earns in the 6 figures, mid 6 figures. He just worked his way up.

My ex only has a 2-year degree and has a great job. He can fix ANYTHING and I mean ANYTHING. Of all my siblings, I may have married someone gay, but I married the most intelligent of any of my siblings.

I don't buy for 1 minute that Jews have more intelligent people than mormons even if I'm not mormon. Not after the people I worked with.

Once again someone's chestnuts were pulled from the fire!

36 posts chopped back to 28...

A lesson is being taught, but I don't think the pupil is learning.