kingdom reward if he is proxy baptized in a temple?

It's a C-U-L-T. Of course it does. Why else would it bother to baptize the dead?

Only a cult would practice such a ridiculous ritual. Worse yet it believes in such falsehoods.

Yep.

I'm sure that they also accept his blood-spilling death by gunshot as a "blood atonement" for his grievous sins -- which would of course have been necessary...

Yes. I actually had a discussion about it in a religion class at BYU. I left feeling sick.

At least that was still being taught at baptisms I have attended for children.

So Hitler's sins have been washed away and he is a new man. That is what the atonement and baptism is suppose to do according to what I have been taught. It could drive a person crazy to think that a person like Hiltler could have all his past wiped out with one dunk in the temple baptism waters. And I was taught this by a member of the Calgary Stake Presidency who were excellent friends with Kimball.

Great plot for a horror novel ... Life on Hitler's Celestial World.

Hmm, will his version of "the war in heaven" involve invading the Russian sector of the CK in winter?

Oh, man. can you imagine how cursed you'd be if you were a fence-sitter in the Battle of Celestial Stalingrad?

The new member in heaven has been cleansed and is starting out fresh.

What about all of his victims' suffering? The church tends to explain away bad things as payment for being non-valiant in the pre-existence. Whatever atrocities and trials one suffers in life help their souls progress.

I think mormons might say forgiving Hitler won't be so difficult in the next life when all is made clear.

Mormon apologists for Hitler have more in common with a madman than they have with basic goodness and decency in humankind. Excusing a sociopath murderous rampage at the expense of six million? But then Mormons don't equate goodness with morality, excepting their tunnel vision that would elevate Hitler over those we mourn.

That they could even attempt to put him on same footing as the six million lost to his "final solution." No, they're as lost as he is if they believe that is remotely possible that God would redeem Adolf Hitler after his carnage.

Mormonism is a joke. And a sick joke at that. But then it was Mormons who assisted Hitler with his Final Solution. They were on board with him. They were not Resistance Fighters. They went along with his plan and assisted in the annihilation of the Jews.

It's just schizophrenic enough that after the Holocaust it tried baptizing the Holocaust victims it threw under the bus during the war. That has got to be the sickest, vilest thing I have heard coming from the ashes of the Holocaust. It was complicit in their murder. Then baptized their dead. Oh.my.God.

Does the church teach that Hilter "can" be exalted? They teach that anyone can, subject to God's determination.

Does the church "officially" teach, or admit, that about Hitler? No, that would be an embarrassing thing to say. So they don't.

I will, however, add another element to the discussion. If the brethren had granted Hitler his second anointing, they would have ensured his exaltation.

That does not apply to Hitler, of course, but it does apply to the people who organized and carried out the Mountain Meadows Massacre and other atrocities. Those people will reach celestial glory whether God wants them to or not.

Good points. If memory serves, baptism is only necessary to enter the celestial kingdom. Why would he be baptized for the dead if he was going to end up in the telestial or terrestrial kingdom, where baptism isn't even necessary to enter?

"We Must Be Baptized to Enter the Celestial Kingdom"
https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-20-baptism?lang=eng

✠ Adᛜlᚫ 卐 ᛊiᛈᚻᛗaᚥᚤ ᛋᛋ ᛜᚫᚪiᛈial ✠

Alma 34:34 tells us that people don't Repent after they die;

End of Report (O, except that Mormons OFTEN HAVE THINGS BOTH WAYS!)

Besides, how can Here Hitler make restitution for all those people he ordered killed? Restitution is a Mandatory part of Repentance, which in turn is Mandatory for the CK...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2018 12:28AM by GNPE.

The BoM is of course not the end of the story but rather the beginning. Once JS had used it to establish his bone fides, he went on and created a very different religion in Mormonism.


Thus D&C 138. . .

30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead.

31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel.
---------------------




And the Encyclopedia of Mormonism. . .


"Latter-day Saints believe that preaching the gospel in the spirit world continues today and will continue until every soul who wishes to do so and repents properly will be released from such imprisonment.

"Repentance of imprisoned spirits opens the doors of the prison, enabling them to loose themselves from the spiritual darkness of unbelief, ignorance, and sin. As they accept the gospel of Jesus Christ and cast off their sins, the repentant are able to break the chains of hell and dwell with the righteous in paradise. [See also Salvation of the Dead.]"

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Spirit_Prison

We were always taught that we should repent now rather than later because it would be much harder without a body. But there was never any doubt that repentance could continue in the spirit world and in the millennium.

Restitution is mandatory to the extent that it is possible but with some sins, it is not. Think, for instance, of someone who gets drunk at a bar and then runs over a pedestrian on the way home. If the pedestrian dies, there is no way to offer restitution. Negligent manslaughter, however, is forgivable if the sinner does everything s/he can.

The fact that there is repentance in the spirit world, when people have already died and cannot do anything to make restitution, further substantiates that interpretation.

Lot's Wife Wrote:

> The fact that there is repentance in the spirit
> world, when people have already died and cannot do
> anything to make restitution, further
> substantiates that interpretation.

Just Exactly why do U use the claim that "repentance in the spirit world" is a "fact"????

Uh. . .

Because of D&C 132: 30-32, the Teachings of the Prophet Brigham Young, Doctrines of Salvation, Mormon Doctrine, The Encyclopedia of Mormonism, current lesson manuals, and a number of general conference speeches.

That's why.

Erratum: D&C 138, not 132. The verses are right, as are the other references.

Also Moses 7:37-40. Again, repentance after death in the spirit world.

Facts aren't established by scriptures, Especially LDS scriptures...

Mormons consider it a "fact."
That's what she was getting at. :)

My use of the term Fact ... is remarkably Different than most LDS, I guess.
:)

Back to the point:

Both LDS scripture & Bible tell that restitution is 4 x the value of items taken wrongfully; wasn't Hitler responsible for the taking of millions of lives?

I have provided multiple LDS scriptures; references to multiple LDS prophetic statements, links to the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, and a suggestion to check GC speeches in conference (which I have checked), etc. For some reason you insist on ignoring that.

If you are saying that repentance after death is not a "fact" because there is no life after death, the answer would be Homor Simpson's famous single syllable. If you are suggesting that there is no repentance after death in Mormonism, you have to contend with the D&C, the Book of Moses, Joseph Smith (D&C 138), Brigham Young, Joseph Fielding Smith, Bruce McConkie and the present Lords of Correlation.

Your quarrel isn't with me. It is with the Mormon Church, which doesn't agree with you, and with logic. As MikeMitchell has noted, there is no purpose in baptism for the dead if if repentance by the deceased is impossible.

If you want to change people's minds, you should address those points rather than merely repeating your original contention.

^^^^^ Exactly.

In the "Do as we say, not as we do" world of Mormonism, Anything is not only Possible, but doctrine.

just sayin'