It has been argued that God calls people to high church positions, while those called retain agency to commit serious sin. Two problems with this argument. First, in the case where a newly called president has a history of serious sin, why would the Holy Ghost prompt the GA to issue the call? Second, God presumably knows that the new president will go on to commit the reported abuses. I have a hard time with that. As a father, I cannot imagine that I would knowingly put into play circumstances that would bring about serious injury to my child at the hand of another person.

You are absolutely correct, and I agree completely, but I think there would be someone who would float the totally wrong idea that maybe that child was being tested. I have a problem, especially in this scenario, of the way that "Gawhd" supposedly tests (or allows to be tested) his children, giving or allowing adversity to see how they respond. Having a difficult choice to make is one thing, and possibly a valid way to be tested, but suffering through being violated physically in some way is just perverse. That is not a valid method of testing someone. IMHO.

Yes. The claim some may make about being tested flies in the face of all the stories of Mormons avoiding injury due obeying church leaders or following a spiritual prompting to avoid a specific situation. Underlying all those stories is the premise that God wants to keep his obedient children safe and that you will be safe by being obedient.

I'll admit I'm not all caught up on this scandal. What was done and when? Who knew what and when?

Facts aside, the argument that God is totally in control of everything, and that he's a swell kind of guy, fall flat on its face. If God is all powerful and all knowing, he cannot be just. One cursory glance at the world should tell you that. Either he's an omnipotent prick, or he's a nice guy without much power. He can't be both.

zarahemlatowndrunk Wrote:
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> I'll admit I'm not all caught up on this scandal.
> What was done and when? Who knew what and when?

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2107079

> Either he's an omnipotent prick, or he's a nice guy without
> much power. He can't be both.

Or he could be...imaginary :)

Dammit, Hie, I was going to say, “Well, my buddy, HietoKolob, would say, ‘he’s not real!’”

The Mormon telling of these things is that God calls people the strengthen their challenges, weaknesses...


Can't argue with that, 'eh?

You can't argue with that, and that is how they word their doctrine now. It is more legal speak than truth. Who cares that there really were no golden plates, and that all the revelation were really just opinions? For people looking for truth, religion is the worst place to go looking for it. Religion can teach you alot about people, but there is no truth there... it's all opinion.

In every aspect of my life in mormonism, I was always on the raw end of the deal it seemed. All my friends got married before I did, although I was much more successful in my career. None of them had one or didn't even try to have one. God was just testing me, but they all acted as though there was something wrong with me. After I got married, found out they all envied my life as a single woman.

Then when my husband left, it obviously was my problem and I must have been doing something really horrible as they all are still married, no matter how they live their lives.

So people who end up with leaders like this are just being tested and the person called is just being tested. How pathetic is that?

After my dad realized I was never going back, he started talking to me about Mark Hoffman (spelling?). It was really a big issue to my dad. I remember him talking to me about discernment and the obvious lack there was.

Discernment is a huge issue that if they fail at, it just shows they have NONE at all. Once you figure that out, it isn't much of a trip to leaving. It was so obvious to me that they leaders had no discernment at all when I dealt with them.

Uncle Gordie knew what he was doing:

https://www.lds.org/media-library/video/2012-08-1610-do-not-practice-polygamy?lang=eng

I'm hoping that smirkorama sees this so he could tear apart Gordie some more....

It is often said by Mormons that the 'power of discernment' *does* operate.

However, The Lord deliberately allows 'sinners' to be given positions/callings in order that "they may eateth and drinketh [sic] more damnation to their souls".

One tiny problem: damnation is binary. Once you are damned you don't need any more damnation. It's already the fiery furnce for you buddy (or the deep-freeze, in the Mormon doctrine mashup).