I know it claims to be a church but how do they get away with
The financial investments, game compounds, a high end mall to only name a few?

Churches get defacto tax-free status in the United States.

Are there no regulations governing the distinction of signing on as a church? I mean we are talking billions of dollars changing hands. What is to stop anyone or any corporation from claiming
Status as a church?

Not much. Scientology is the poster child for that.

Including african americans in the priesthood made them legit in the governments eyes specifically.

Including African-American males in the priesthood had nothing to do with their tax-free status, pro or con. You'll notice Mormons still do not include women in their priesthood. Doesnt hurt their tax-free status at all. Westboro Baptist is still ragingly homophobic. Doesn't hurt their tax-free status either.

Anon42day Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The financial investments, game compounds, a highend mall to only name a few?

Are you assuming that the church does not pay taxes on their "for profit" operations (financial investments, game compounds, high end mall, etc.)?

I honestly wasn’t sure because I really haven’t learned much about what tax free status entails. I posted this because
I would like to understand how it works. Ask me about history
Taxation is different. I’m clueless

I think the state constitutions of most (?) states were set the way they are by 'religious' people, there's very little support for changing this.


We 'could' set landmarks for charitable orgs, such as % of revenue given away, etc.

Again, this would be viewed as a Wholesale Assault on religion(s), not.a.chance.in.Hell

It was my belief that they didn’t pay any tax at all. So do they
Pay taxes on their investments?

Religious institutions with the 501(c)(3) tax exemption (not just "churches" but synagogues, mosques, Hindu temples....) are not required to pay capital gains taxes on investments. That goes both for stocks or real estate, for example.

Unlike in many other countries, the United States has almost never wanted to be in the business of deciding what is a genuine religion and what isn't. As long as there's a sign on the door, a congregation of some sort, and a statement that it's a religion, the US government will leave it alone and grant tax-free status.

If the US government reversed policy and began looking into the bonafides of one church or faith after another, the uproar, the fury, from many sides, would be like the battle of Stalingrad, D-Day, and the bombing of Hiroshima, all at once.

The separation of church and state doctrine, the Establishment Clause in the Constitution (that the US will not "establish" any religion), were designed to make sure that religion didn't have a defined role in the government (unlike in al European countries at the time), and has also operated to make the government's role in governing, or approving/disapproving of any plausible claim of being a religion, very very light-touch.

A religion can't commit crimes and get away with it, i.e. human or animal sacrifices are out, and there are limits to the tax-free status of donations (some must be spent for objectively linked purposes -- such as building temple after temple!) but that's the gist of it.

With its history of almost 200 years now as a faith, with temples, prophets, congregations, missionaries, holy scriptures, even martyrs, LDS absolutely has no difficulty in qualifying as a church for IRS purposes.

So do they taxes on things like their big mall and other profitable investments?

The stores that lease space in the mall collect and pay sales taxes on their sales, but the church's income from their rents isn't taxable.

So I they allowed to keep all the profits secret or do they have to declare them

Years ago the Relief Society had very fun bazaars. The women made things all year and they were sold at the Bazaars but we were forced to stop because Salt Lake said it compromisedthe churches tax free status and I never understood why.

I think it was a lie. Either that or a hugely excessive and mistaken amount of caution. Catholic churches all seem to hold parish bazaars every year without any problem or taxation.

It seems to me to be likely a part of TSCC's drive to remove any and all autonomy, spiritual inquiry that could challenge the priesthood, non-correlated lessons or materials, and financial independence, from RS.

I always felt it was a lie because up until that time the Relief Society was allowed to keep that money and use it for our parties and luncheons and then we were no longer allowed to have our own money and had to go through the priesthood for our finances

LDS Inc pays property and income taxes on their business income. Everyone paid a salary from church funds pays personal income tax on that.

That said, there are some shenanigans they can pull. As I understand it, at least part of the money given to mission presidents is considered reimbursement or some such. They are instructed to be very careful how they refer to the money they receive. I assume that is so they dont accidentally be too honest and collapse their house of financial cards.

I also understand that while business income is taxable, rents are tax-free. I think this is because churches often own small amounts of property around the chapel itself, including parsonages, and there is often some rental income.

If rental/lease income is indeed tax-free to churches (CPA in the house?) I can see the following happening: one arm of LDS Inc owns the land, and another branch of LDS Inc owns a business that leases said land. That decreases the business profit and increases the lease income. At the Deseret Ranch in Florida, that could be a significant pile of cash.

Also, I have wondered if LDS Inc claims a religious tax exemption on the welfare farms, claiming they are part of the religion's food storage program. I bet they can and do get away with that, though they sell at least part of what they produce (with free labor, no less) to the members themselves. It's not all given away as charity by any stretch of the imagination.

To be clear, churches, etc., are exempt from property taxes on their real (i.e. dirt, buildings) and personal (everything else) property in all 50 states and D.C.

And from capital gains taxes. And from taxes on lease income, as far as I understand it.

And donations are always 100% tax free.

Let me try to help the OP some more. The IRS has a published, 11-point guideline of what it looks for in deciding to grant a 501c3 exemption to a religious institution. Note that not all 11 have to be satisfied. Note as well that the points are all "functional," or "operational," and not based on any subjective opinion about the truthfulness of the faith or even the honesty of its founder(s). Here's the list:

1. Distinct legal existence;

2. Recognized creed and form of worship;

3. Definite and distinct ecclesiastical government;

4. Formal code of doctrine and discipline;

5. Distinct religious history;

6. Membership not associated with any other church or denomination;

7. Organization of ordained ministers;

8. Ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed study;

9. Literature of its own;

10. Established places of worship;

11. Regular congregations;

12. Regular religious services;

13. Schools, such as Sunday schools, for religious instruction of the young; and

14. Schools for preparing its members.

TSCC checks every box on the list, in spades. Moreover, as I understand it, there's so much concern about government interference in religion in the USA that a church doesn't even need to apply for/qualify for approved 501c3 status to begin using the tax exemptions, this is voluntary -- although actually having it in writing from the IRS essentially ends all worries for the future.

14-point, not 11-point. I was drifting....

All of your information has been extremely helpful, especially
The list. Thank you for taking the time to explain these things.

Making assumptions about what other people are thinking or
Doing is simply a good way to make false judgements about
People’s motives. I left the church physically and officially
Many years ago. Their finances don’t affect my life but I am trying to understand their claim of unpaid clergy

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2108149



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2018 08:02AM by steve benson.

Would anyone have any idea or hazard a guess why around ten posts disappeared from this board?

I don't know for sure, but I think the problem was th Mormon apologist who said that the posters here were making false claims motivated by petty vindictiveness.

When a bad post is published, the moderators generally remove it--and the attached responses disappear too. I believe it would be possible to keep the responses while purging the flawed post, but that would take a lot of extra time and energy; and sometimes the remaining posts would be incomprehensible due to the lack of context.

My guess is that that is what happened here.

I’m sure that’s what happened. I hear the term Mormon apologist.
What exactly does that mean. I have a general idea but the term
“apologist” escapes me

Forgive me if this is too basic, but "apology" has two meanings: to say "I'm sorry," and to explain. So the popularizers of early Christianity, the people who tried to explain the faith in terms outsiders could understand and respect, styled themselves "apologists."

In the LDS context, "apologists" are those who excuse, explain, dissimulate for Mormonism. There are armies of such people who assert themselves as experts and representatives. Perhaps it was too respectful a term for the poster who appeared in this thread because he didn't really explain things or try to convey them in a better light; he just railed about ex-Mormons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2018 05:06PM by Lot's Wife.

Thanks for the clarification. I think my dad was doing that but
I think he was doing it because he needed to prove to himself that it was all true. He was a geologist which I believe created some doubts about the B of M, the age of the earth etc. we never discussed it but before he died he made a statement that surprised me. After all his trying to prove everything, he said either the church was absolutely true or the biggest fraud ever
Purported on mankind. Call me crazy but I somehow felt he was leaning towards door no. 2

P O L I T I C S

Their/ it's posing as a church.

Lies