Our chronology:


My ex left Mormonism after reading Mountain Meadows Massacre.

Our oldest served a mission, finished college and became an attorney.

I left the church.

One day, he and I had a conversation about polygamy. I said, "There's Joseph Smith's wonderful legacy." He hung up on me.

He called me back and advised me not to disrespect "his prophet." His tone was chilly.

On his last visit to his dad, he called his dad a "son of perdition" because his dad "threw away his priesthood." He loaded up his six kids, and spun tires out of his dad's driveway in the new Chevy Tahoe that my ex had given him.

My ex died within a year.

My son shunned me after always telling me that I was his best friend.

He's shunned all of his brothers.

We haven't seen our six grandchildren for two years.


If you think there's no harm in allowing your children to continue in Mormonism after you have left, please consider that very carefully.

This is a really good topic, kathleen...

...and my heart is sad for what you have lived through (and for what your grandchildren, and everyone else involved, are living through, too).

Oh my dear. Katherine. That is so sad!

You and your ex don't deserve to be treated like that. Maybe your son, his wife, or some of your grandchildren will come to their senses. It's not over until it's over.

Your ex died having lived a life of religious integrity, and I'm sure he knew he did everything he could do to try to keep those Mormon relationships viable--even buy his son a fancy car. If there's an afterlife, your ex has even more understanding, now.

Please don't feel responsible for your son's attitude. He's an adult, now, and can make his own choices. I should say, "non-choices", because the Mormon cult brainwashes its victims, so they no longer think for themselves. Remember, the cult as a whole, exemplified by the new prophet Nelson, does NOT believe in UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, which is Christ-like love, and parent-child love. Nelson himself said, "Unconditional love is anti-christ.

I believe the Mormon cult is truly evil.

This probably doesn't help you feel any better, because you have tremendous guilt. So do I! I forced my children to go to church, when they did not want to. They even cried, they hated it so much--and I didn't listen to their pleas--and I made them dry their eyes and go.

Finally, I realized that church had become a wedge between me and my children. It was the only thing we fought about. One Saturday, at breakfast, I asked them WHY they hated church, and (one of the most important things I ever did) I sat and LISTENED to what they had to say. All of them had been physically abused! I've written about this on RFM before, so I won't go into detail. All of my children had been threatened by the Mormon leaders not to tell anyone about the abuse, including their own mother! In that instant, I told them that they never had to go to church again.

If it hadn't been for the extreme abuse, my children and I might have stayed Mormon. I still believed at that time. It was the abuse that made me really start to question, critically.

I honestly believe that all children are abused, mentally, in the Mormon cult. Mental abuse is not as obvious. The victims usually don't realize they are being abused at all. My definition of mental abuse is: putting someone down for their weaknesses, manipulating someone into doing something they don't want to do or that they don't feel good about doing, brainwashing someone, lying, threatening, intimidating with false authority, closed-door interviews about sex, treating someone like dirt--and the list goes on.

Evidently your son was unaware of all of this, and so were you, for several years. I was lucky that my children left when they were younger, and not yet brainwashed. You, and many of my ex-Mormon friends, were not so lucky. My best friend, a widow, sent her son on a mission, and paid for it, herself. Then she paid for his entire college education, including medical school. She found out Mormonism is a fraud when she was a grandmother. Now, her arrogant, self-righteous, GA-wannabe son and his wife think they are too good for my friend. They are afraid Grandma will be a bad influence on their children. As the grandchildren get older and wiser--as the Mormon church itself keeps unravelling--Grandma gets the blame for all of it! My friend never says one word about religion to her family. She's afraid to. The DIL and grandkids see her once a year, for part of a day, on their summer visits to Utah. Her son hasn't seen her for 3 years.

So sad. So unfair! It makes my blood boil!

Please, don't take it personally (though what could be more personal than a mother-son relationship?), but I'm saying that your son is shunning his brothers, too. Shunning is Mormon SOP.

Maybe there's something you can do about the situation.... If you feel weak, get together with your other children, and figure out ways to build bridges. Maybe one of your family members could go with you to visit your son. (Don't go alone into the enemy's camp.)

((((hugs))))

Good post Kathleen. The parents got them into it, it's their job to get them out. When I tell people I'm ex-Mormon, I always say, my mother was Mormon which meant I was Mormon. If she would have been catholic, etc, etc....

Kathleen, it broke my heart to read about your son. I’m angry at him because he hurt you. I don't know why some TBMs react so horribly when their parents are honest and open about their disbelief. He may also be in for a shock if one of his children leaves.

Big ((((hugs)))), i hooe your son gains some compassion and common sense sbout his inappropriate behavior.

I was surprised to see the son who became an attorney is the one who dug his heels in deeper to the cult's lies. Law school, if anything, teaches critical thinking skills he wouldn't have as finely tuned before going. I've heard of other Mormon lawyers whose shelves cracked because of their profession.

His may still. But at what a price and burden to you all. If that's his religion, to sacrifice parents on an alter of post-Mormon beliefs, he has a lot of growing up to do. Pray for his children. I can only imagine he is as rigid with them as he's been with the rest of you.

Your child will probably receive the ultimate parlor trick/horoscope--the PATRIARCHAL BLESSING.

Rarely will you see a PB that says you were a schmo in the pre-existence, and you're a schmo here on earth. No, they tell you some ego-feeding nonsense. How can we dismiss something that makes us feel exceptional?

*****


The son I'm telling you about was told in his PB that he was one of the elite who made decisions for the future Earth. It also tells him that he must fight, with almost physical force, those who would destroy his testimony.

Mine has promises of wealth if I use it to build up the LDS church here on Earth.

Another son's threatens his life if he deviates from the gospel. Around the time he began doubting the church, he went kayaking and ended up in a tangled root (a "strainer") in the river. He barely crawled out. See? There you have it!

My husband's says he was a noble son who fought valiantly for Jesus Christ in the spirit world. And that when all the world turns to crap, it will be he (he!) who will stand in high places.

One son's says that he was privileged to have "godly parents" (as we sat there, TBMs we). How could we leave the church and risk him thinking we were no longer goodly?

Some of these glorious and ridiculous pronouncements have the power to keep people hooked to the church.

*****


If your child remains in the church, he or she will almost certainly be the recipient of a Patriarchal Blessing.

Very good point! I didn't realize how hooked in a pb can make one. Mine told me i had good parents- mom was a mental and physical abuser; i guess god didn't see that stuff. So i kept thinking it must be me. Finally i got so depressed that dh went to see a mental health worker and explained the situation. I got therapy which taught me how to deal with my mother AND that bishops didn't get revelation from heaven for me that i had to follow or be in trouble with god. That was a big turning point for me, b/c i had been really brainwashed thruout my youth. I

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your child will probably receive the ultimate
> parlor trick/horoscope--the PATRIARCHAL BLESSING.
>
> Rarely will you see a PB that says you were a
> schmo in the pre-existence, and you're a schmo
> here on earth. No, they tell you some ego-feeding
> nonsense. How can we dismiss something that makes
> us feel exceptional?
>
> *****
>
>
> The son I'm telling you about was told in his PB
> that he was one of the elite who made decisions
> for the future Earth. It also tells him that he
> must fight, with almost physical force, those who
> would destroy his testimony.
>
> Mine has promises of wealth if I use it to build
> up the LDS church here on Earth.
>
> Another son's threatens his life if he deviates
> from the gospel. Around the time he began
> doubting the church, he went kayaking and ended up
> in a tangled root (a "strainer") in the river. He
> barely crawled out. See? There you have it!
>
> My husband's says he was a noble son who fought
> valiantly for Jesus Christ in the spirit world.
> And that when all the world turns to crap, it will
> be he (he!) who will stand in high places.
>
> One son's says that he was privileged to have
> "godly parents" (as we sat there, TBMs we). How
> could we leave the church and risk him thinking we
> were no longer goodly?
>
> Some of these glorious and ridiculous
> pronouncements have the power to keep people
> hooked to the church.
>
> *****
>
>
> If your child remains in the church, he or she
> will almost certainly be the recipient of a
> Patriarchal Blessing.

This is SO true! I kept going to the church for years because of my patriarchal blessing that said that the day that I would have left the church, everything in my life would have gone bad from that day on. This really scared the hell out of me... and yes, it still does.

I am so sorry for your story, Kathleen. I hope one day your son will find out the truth



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2018 03:26AM by abrandnewme.

The Craziest Business/Religion STRIKES again.

It reminds me when folks are so surrounded in delusion
that their only choice is to stay surrounded.

They WONT budge. They WONT move. They WONT think.

(Did you say this guy is an "Attorney" MY GOSH!

Unfortunately you are dealing with the "true believer" mentality.
What a true believer does is believe. Don't confuse the issue with facts. The true believer is not interested in facts.

Since he's your kid, I won't say anything other than I'm sorry for the pain that must cause you.

My heart breaks for you. I left and slowly my two sons have left also. My daughter is very involved with the church and lets face it, I instilled that in her. I was a good Mormon mom.

It was a slow process with me leaving the church. As I have said before, I still cannot say my temple name. I know intellectually it is stupid, but there is still a PTSD aspect to it. Even 5 years of therapy and cognitive therapy has not helped me to release the temple name.
With that said, if it is that difficult for me, it would be difficult for my daughter and on top of that she is bi polar. She is definitely a TBM.

Again, I am very saddened by your situation and the only advice I can give is patience. I never confronted any of my children. I offered acceptance of "their religion" even though it was not mine anymore. I had spoken to all of them and stated generally what was going on in my head. They see I am the same mom and even happier and calmer(this led my sons to leave). My daughter? Well, I look at it this way, she is also liberal and I am a conservative. She is TBM and I am not. We have our differences, but we meet where we are alike.

If you are considering allowing your child to continue in mormonism, look at indoctrination. Think about screwballs in primary on up inculcating your children with lies. And one of the dirtiest tricks the subtle hint that their parent (you apostate) "won't go to heaven."

When done systematically and is encouraged as "a way of life," indoctrination can be more saturating than education.

I compare mormonism to MSG--a neurotoxin used as a flavor enhancer. MSG does not change the flavor of food, but works in our brains to change our perception of the flavor. MSG can make shit taste like Shinola.


Mormonism induces changes to our perceptions:

Our perception of who is a gentile
Our perception of healthy drinks
Our perception of secret vs sacred

Most of all: Our perception of worthiness
and
Our perception of our parent(s)' worthiness

Allegro, I am not aiming my responses at you. For some reason, they are falling here.

Hi Kathleen, I did not take it that way. You are correct with indoctrination.
The MSG analogy is good-thank you. When the time comes, I will use it. You have given good advice.

i had a bit of a problem too, saying my temple name b/c i promised not to do so. Even if i left, was that promise still valid?

Some people on here put it this way for me: if you have a clubhouse secret name can you say it when you're not in the club anymore? Mormonism is like a clubhouse that you outgrow. God doesn't care about clubhouse secret names etc. If you still believe in god.

I'll trade places with your son. I am in the reverse situation where i am the only non-believer. Still feel like a good person deep down but i am seen as the leader of the opposition against their cult or something. I wish i was the leader against the cult and all cults. It's only fitting that is me haha i probably hate it and their god the most even if it is a fantasy god.

Some of us did not have a choice of 'allowing' our children to stay, they were out of the house.

I have heard some stupid things from my kids but never near what you have experienced. One of 4 kids are not in the church.

I am too wealthy for my kids to treat me too badly ---- but time will tell.

Time solves some problems. I was a TBM for more years than I would like to admit but was able to eventually become enlightened.

I am trying to be positive but it's their choice and it's not 'terrible' in our family situation if they continue to get taken.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2018 08:24PM by spiritist.

With older kids, forcing them to leave against their will could alienate them and make them more entrenched in their belief. I think you have to play it by ear, consider the child and show some respect for their views considering you are the one who got them into it.One size doesnt fit all.All kids who stay in the church are not going to reject their parents. It is tragic that that happened to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2018 10:55PM by bona dea.

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One size doesnt fit
> all.All kids who stay in the church are not going
> to reject their parents. It is tragic that that
> happened to you.

I agree. I'm hoping this scenario doesn't happen to me.

kathleen, I respect you more than I can articulate here. Thank you for your post regarding your son, ex, and these weighty matters.

Thank you for living an example of being true to yourself. Thank you for reminding others of the losses that could happen to them, should they be real.

What were your options? Fakery? Spending time with your grandchildren while they visioned you in Satan's clutches?

Kids remember who denied them a relationship with grandparents. There is so much in popular culture about 'family' and kids remember who said, 'You can't see them/talk to them' and they typically feel ripped off.

Kids want to know *for themselves* who is good and who isn't. They typically are more curious about forbidden fruit and why they aren't allowed to have it?

But of course, that doesn't matter. Your grandchildren could also say, 'My grans were apostates and my parents protected me from their evil.' One has to make peace within oneself: even if my own reject me forever, and I never have the life I envisioned, I will be true to my self.

Many have gone before, but that doesn't make it any easier when it is you.

Know that you are in the highest regard in my esteem!

You, too, Mother Knows!!!

Thank you, carameldreams and all of my other sweet friends here on RfM.


Clearly, I'll always love my son with all my heart.

And, I know that when he's alone, he cries.

Yes (regarding your son crying). Haven't most of us been there? Putting a brave face on and acting defensively when we know we are a shell of a person?

But to admit defeat seems impossible at the time.

I think people remember who loved them and also who was self respecting while they boasted and pushed people away. Everyone has their breaking point and while I certainly do not wish problems on anyone, I have seen the best opportunities come when one is kicked to the curb.

No one can live up to the Mormon standards. Your high achieving son has accomplished much from his own will. But no one can stay on the treadmill of religion and not have the letdown/breakdown/meltdown privately.

Thank you again, kathleen! I believe the wisdom of your posts here (whatever the topic) also testifies to the mental health and depth of character as a result of being true to your heart. It is so painful but the in-between is a mind f!