Adam, read this. It's not about religion, but it's about a lot of lonely guys that feel that they'll never be "normal". As you can see, the main subject broke out of his self imposed isolation and low self value. Maybe something will resonate with you. I never heard the term "incel" before, but I can appreciate the concept.
I think it would be beneficial for you to look to all the things that have influenced you -- not just the church. In order to get better you might want to expand your search for answers.
Devoted Exmo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think it would be beneficial for you to look to > all the things that have influenced you -- not > just the church. In order to get better you might > want to expand your search for answers.
Right. I don't know what else is there besides religion and abuse?
Devoted Exmo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think it would be beneficial for you to look to > all the things that have influenced you -- not > just the church. In order to get better you might > want to expand your search for answers.
My mother was actually a horrible, abusive sociopath. This is the woman who raised me. It had nothing to do with religion. I beat her at her own game by getting away from her, enrolling in college, and amid many problems, managed to create a good life for myself. Get away. Someone who abuses you doesn't deserve one minute of your precious time. Do what you have to do in order to make your life what you want it to be. There will always be problems in life and always some pain or sickness. Move on. You can do it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2018 11:41AM by Aquarius123.
I spend too much time not wanting to be a part of this world. I'm kind of just pretending when i go out in public. Could anyone blame me after witnessing my life? Probably not. I don't trust anyone that is alive at this very moment and i definitely don't trust a god. It's a predicament.
One of the main reasons i am trying to get out of pain is so when i get locked up again i won't be hurting because it sucks to be locked up and in physical pain. I actually don't think i can get completely better but i may be able to get out of some pain i figure at the very least.
Yes, but how much of that was purely because your father was an abusive person and how much was because he used religion as his cudgel sometimes. I think a lot of your issues stem from the fact that your father was simply an abusive person. Religion was his abusive tool of choice. If he didn't have the religion to abuse you with, he would probably still have been abusing you.
Devoted Exmo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yes, but how much of that was purely because your > father was an abusive person and how much was > because he used religion as his cudgel sometimes. > I think a lot of your issues stem from the fact > that your father was simply an abusive person. > Religion was his abusive tool of choice. If he > didn't have the religion to abuse you with, he > would probably still have been abusing you.
You may be right. I think he wishes i was dead now that he knows i am getting real help without anyone's permission and breaking off from religion of my own free will and i am talking for once in my life. Legally he can not do a d@mn thing. All the control mechanisms used against me are fading over time i think.
Adam, I have thought for a long time that it would do you a lot of good to get away from your father and from the Morridor. You are around Mormons *a lot.* If you spent most of your time around people who don't know much about Mormonism at all (and care even less,) it might make you feel more normal. Just something to think about for when you are feeling healthier.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2018 11:02AM by summer.
summer Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Adam, I have thought for a long time that it would > do you a lot of good to get away from your father > and from the Morridor. You are around Mormons *a > lot.* If you spent most of your time around people > who don't know much about Mormonism at all (and > care even less,) it might make you feel more > normal. Just something to think about for when you > are feeling healthier.
I don't know where to go. Sure i wish i could transport myself magically to somewhere else. I would just feel like i am running away and i am tired of feeling like i am running away all the time. I have moved a ton in my life and still haven't gotten away in the end. Why don't they move for once? They never move.
Portland, Seattle, Denver, maybe Boise. Phoenix, Tucson, or Las Vegas if you like the heat. There are plenty of places to consider. California is expensive, but it also has great benefits for disabled people and a fantastic public higher-education system if you ever want to go back to school.
summer Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > >>I don't know where to go. > > Portland, Seattle, Denver, maybe Boise. Phoenix, > Tucson, or Las Vegas if you like the heat. There > are plenty of places to consider. California is > expensive, but it also has great benefits for > disabled people and a fantastic public > higher-education system if you ever want to go > back to school.
Moving to another state seems like a big step right now. I am already set up here with my doctors and counselors and i have health insurance still and disability still.
Yes, you are all.set.up.with doctors, insurance etc but where you are is a toxic constrictive society. Think of it like having severe allergies. Would you stay where you are or move to arizona where alot of prople with allergies go. I immediately thought of portland. Not only are there slot of exmormons, there are alot of constructive, non judgemental people. You can heal there whereas even though youre all set up there, you cant heal because of the environment. Talk to some exs in the area.
Anon 3 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yes, you are all.set.up.with doctors, insurance > etc but where you are is a toxic constrictive > society. Think of it like having severe allergies. > Would you stay where you are or move to arizona > where alot of prople with allergies go. I > immediately thought of portland. Not only are > there slot of exmormons, there are alot of > constructive, non judgemental people. You can heal > there whereas even though youre all set up there, > you cant heal because of the environment. > Talk to some exs in the area.
You might have a point, this goes beyond doctors and whatever else. It's just a toxic surrounding i am in.
kathleen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > StillAnon ... I’d give anything for a friend > like you. The truth is that you have never > abandoned Adam. > > The link you posted was fascinating.
He may actually legitimately want to help me for real you are right. With all our battles he is still there.
Devoted Exmo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Absolutely. There's a distinct difference between > a mentor and a friend. A mentor is not going to > spare your feelings in order to help you.
Hmmm just kind of expected him to see me as a lost cause and move on.
Devoted Exmo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Nope...But you have to be willing to open your > mind about things and not have just a single > track.
Thank you, kathleen. We can be friends, anytime. I read that this morning, came here, saw Adam's usual poor me post and thought this would be a good fit. Anyone can tell you what you want to hear, but real friends tell each other the truth- even if it hurts. Everyone's entitled to bitch about stuff, but bitching about the same thing, over and over without taking advice and trying to change will keep you in the exact same place. That guy in the article made a conscious choice to stop drowning in self pity and take steps to improve. I thought Adam might gain some insight. BTW- the guy in the article is a nice looking guy. But, I'm betting he still sees himself as that pimply scraggly, overweight 12 year old. I think Adam sees himself like he was at his lowest place. Was hoping he could make the connection. And, DevotedExMo. You're right- I'm to the point where I know bitching along with him isn't going to help him. That's called enabling. Which is the last thing he needs right now-even if he can't understand that. Thanks.
I don't think he/she thinks you are an incel It is the process that stands out when I read it. It show how a person or persons are so stagnant in their lives that they get stuck. If you replace Intel for abused Mormon or whatever label you identify with in the article, do you see a similarity in how you life became where it is now.
Look at the process the lives followed due to barriers that were placed. Not the definitions. In the article.
Being a survivor of horrendous child abuse I see how I got the way my life was. But,like others here, I broke the cycle. That does not mean I don't slide back from time to time. But I recognize it when it happens.
You are so lucky you found this site. I think it will be the path that heals you. Spend an hour or two a day outlining the process your life has taken. Maybe if you see it on paper you can visualize how you want it to change. Ask your therapist for ideas. Keep posting. You help others with the same issues. Many lurk and read threads and learn from them.
But I don't consider myself a fool. They are the fools. I'm out. They are still in, even the ones who told me to marry my ex are still in. I have escaped. I am free. Even if I still have issues because I was a mormon, I am free to be who I want to be. It hasn't been easy in many ways, but it has been wonderful in other ways.
Since finally realizing I no longer believe, which was about 15 years ago, I've had more good than bad even with the hole I had to dig myself out of. I'm so much better off now at 60 than I was at 40. There is no comparison.
cl2notloggedin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > But I don't consider myself a fool. They are the > fools. I'm out. They are still in, even the ones > who told me to marry my ex are still in. I have > escaped. I am free. Even if I still have issues > because I was a mormon, I am free to be who I want > to be. It hasn't been easy in many ways, but it > has been wonderful in other ways. > > Since finally realizing I no longer believe, which > was about 15 years ago, I've had more good than > bad even with the hole I had to dig myself out of. > I'm so much better off now at 60 than I was at 40. > There is no comparison.
I don't fully understand the hole that i got put in and i don't quite fully understand how to get out of it totally and live a normal life.
cl2notloggedin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > But I don't consider myself a fool. They are the > fools. I'm out. They are still in, even the ones > who told me to marry my ex are still in. I have > escaped. I am free. Even if I still have issues > because I was a mormon, I am free to be who I want > to be. It hasn't been easy in many ways, but it > has been wonderful in other ways. > > Since finally realizing I no longer believe, which > was about 15 years ago, I've had more good than > bad even with the hole I had to dig myself out of. > I'm so much better off now at 60 than I was at 40. > There is no comparison.
Does it ever seem like the people that stayed in have issues like we do? Does the realization of things create more issues is what i am asking?
I admit a part of me has given up but at least i am honest about it. I was manipulated and conned for thirty years by a family and a religion. I now know why people drive off cliffs after this kind of realization. It would take a miracle to feel like myself again and a human again and i have come to realize this. Body is still in pain, brain is still barely alive drowning in meds. Good times.
Oh, Adam, look at your family. Yeah, my father literally tried to murder all of us. Each of us. He forgets all of that and in his old age wants to move all of us back to him, solving all our problems. Because when you get right down to it, its all about power. We dont allow small children around him unsupervised. But my siblings forgive him because when he gets drunk he cries about how badly he beat us.
I'm quite lucky in that my dad was murdered. He tried to murder us. He pointed guns at us. He beat us constantly. He busted the door down, dragged me down the hall by the throat and threw me up against the wall in the kitchen and strangled me. He was a terribly dangerous person to us. He was quite nice to anyone outside the family but he terrorized us regularly. I don't have to forgive him. I think that is a gift.
I moved away and didn't look back. I knew that I could make a good life for myself and could love my children fiercely, without hesitation and I took the earliest opportunity to do so. I could NOT be a luckier person if I tried.
Devoted Exmo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm quite lucky in that my dad was murdered. He > tried to murder us. He pointed guns at us. He > beat us constantly. He busted the door down, > dragged me down the hall by the throat and threw > me up against the wall in the kitchen and > strangled me. He was a terribly dangerous person > to us. He was quite nice to anyone outside the > family but he terrorized us regularly. I don't > have to forgive him. I think that is a gift. > > I moved away and didn't look back. I knew that I > could make a good life for myself and could love > my children fiercely, without hesitation and I > took the earliest opportunity to do so. I could > NOT be a luckier person if I tried.
It is a miracle that i do not retaliate against my father. Counseling has helped a lot from retaliation against him and another person and even burning churches down and burning crosses.
What I wanted you to understand from this is that you are in a group of people with similar experiences. You are not an outlier. You are not especially damaged. You are damaged in a common way. You can get over this unless you do NOT want to. Decide if you'd like to get over this or if this is something that defines your life and you don't want to get over.
Devoted Exmo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > What I wanted you to understand from this is that > you are in a group of people with similar > experiences. You are not an outlier. You are not > especially damaged. You are damaged in a common > way. You can get over this unless you do NOT want > to. Decide if you'd like to get over this or if > this is something that defines your life and you > don't want to get over.
Is it possible to get over? I think i have to figure out a way to get over it all or i am just going to suffer forever. But i am used to suffering so its hard to think that i can normalize or just be damaged forever. I just don't want to be in pain anymore at the very least but it takes forever to fix the body and even the mind. This may be impossible i really don't know to be honest.
Devoted Exmo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm quite lucky in that my dad was murdered. He > tried to murder us. He pointed guns at us. He > beat us constantly. He busted the door down, > dragged me down the hall by the throat and threw > me up against the wall in the kitchen and > strangled me. He was a terribly dangerous person > to us. He was quite nice to anyone outside the > family but he terrorized us regularly. I don't > have to forgive him. I think that is a gift. > > I moved away and didn't look back. I knew that I > could make a good life for myself and could love > my children fiercely, without hesitation and I > took the earliest opportunity to do so. I could > NOT be a luckier person if I tried.
Devoted exmo, your dad and my mom sound like a match made in heaven. They could rule hell together. That "living well is the best revenge" is so true. We got away from the abusers and did just the opposite of them. I love and am there for my own children. They are beautiful and successful and both have nice families.
So are mine. My kids are all healthy, happy, grown up, have a good education, have a good life, have good marriages, have good kids. And so do I. They know what I lived through and have a lot of love for me for doing my best for them. The appreciate the effort.
Kathleen nli Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Devoted Exmo Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I'm quite lucky in that my dad was murdered. > > > It’s hard to imagine the confusion of that > experience. Can you tell us what helped you at > that time? Or, what could have helped you > better? > > Thanks.
When I was growing up, I wished that someone, anyone would step in to help us. I knew everyone within earshot of our home knew what was going on. But they did what you'd expect normal people to do, they turned away embarrassed. I wished someone in the ward would do something. I remember one time we had to run away in the night and stayed at a member of the bishopric's house overnight. I thought then "maybe now someone will help us!" Nope.....
So I left home at 15, got married and moved several states away. I made my own family and got on with a peaceful life, free from the cowardly violence and terror. I used to dream that my father was trying to kill me for years, but it really did go away after some time.
One day, when I was 22, I was informed that my dad died. I was certainly shocked as he was only 46 and it was unexpected. I went home for the funeral and heard the story of what had happened. Naturally, it was a sordid as he was. I'm not going to say what happened as it might be too many IRL details.
Now, to answer your question. It was a relief. It was a relief to my mother. At the time, my brother and my sister were both on missions. Their mission presidents didn't want them to come home for the funeral, but my brother insisted. So he came home, went back, and then came home for good as he had to reluctantly take over my dad's business.
Anon3 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Oh, Adam, look at your family. Yeah, my father > literally tried to murder all of us. Each of us. > He forgets all of that and in his old age wants to > move all of us back to him, solving all our > problems. Because when you get right down to it, > its all about power. > We dont allow small children around him > unsupervised. But my siblings forgive him because > when he gets drunk he cries about how badly he > beat us.
My father acts like nothing happened. Just "oh well sorry adam" while he heads to his beloved temple.
Have you considered starting to go to the gym everyday. I'm not sure your health problems but I see older guys that have had strokes coming in, and some can't even walk. Lots of guys in their 80s coming in. If your in your 30's-40's that really is your prime, and the human body is amazing. Lance Armstrong was 36 when he was cycling faster than anyone. The winner of the Ogden marathon this year was also 36 averaging an astounding 25 km done at a pace of 4.5 minutes a mile. Jay Cutler from Vegas was 34 when he won Mr. Olympia.
a lot of people work out even when they are injured or sick. We are all capable of more than we do.
anono this week Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This might be something to think about?... > > Have you considered starting to go to the gym > everyday. I'm not sure your health problems but I > see older guys that have had strokes coming in, > and some can't even walk. Lots of guys in their > 80s coming in. If your in your 30's-40's that > really is your prime, and the human body is > amazing. Lance Armstrong was 36 when he was > cycling faster than anyone. The winner of the > Ogden marathon this year was also 36 averaging an > astounding 25 km done at a pace of 4.5 minutes a > mile. Jay Cutler from Vegas was 34 when he won Mr. > Olympia. > > a lot of people work out even when they are > injured or sick. We are all capable of more than > we do.
I want to fix some things before i start working out again. I had some nerves burned in my low back a few days ago and i am not allowed to lift heavy things right now.